Is Saudi Arabia the REAL Problem? - their role in US Intervention in the Middle East

pauljs75
I'd say you're on the mark with this. Also it's not so much the U.S. consumption of Middle Eastern oil (majority of ours comes from Canada and countries around the Gulf of Mexico), but U.S. favored contracts and keeping oil pegged to the dollar. (Also there's likely U.S. arms and security contracting going on.) The idea is to have Europe as the buyer of this oil, instead of getting their oil from Russia. Not to mention there are likely groups in Europe that don't want to be under Russian economic influence in terms of resource availability.

Guess who sits on the real estate that would be a good spot for a pipeline up from the Mideast to Europe? And obviously the Haliburton types don't want Assad or his cronies to be in charge of anything like that. (Not saying I like Assad any, just that those vying to replace him aren't likely going to be any better.)

Canada does supply the US with most of its oil but the way oil is supplied is broke up into regions. The Northern US is almost completely supplied by Canada and partially by Mexico, whereas the Southern US is a bit more convoluted. Most of the Oil in the Southern US comes from Saudi Arabia and Mexico at a close 2nd. The overall numbers for the top 5 suppliers are below. You can see, Saudi Arabia has a good chunk of it. The remaining percentages are made up of predominantly Middle Eastern countries.

Canada (18.2%)
Mexico (11.4%)
Saudi Arabia (11.0%)
Venezuela (10.1%)
Nigeria (8.4%)

Now that isn't the biggest factor. Saudi Arabia is one of the WORLD's largest suppliers of Oil and that is what is important to us. We profit from Saudi Arabia selling oil, because the USD is directly linked to the price of oil. As Oil goes up in price with demand, so does the value of the dollar. Saudi Arabia is one of the most vocal supporters of the USD as the OPEC reserve. When you look at all of the countries we've been at war or conflict with in the past 50 years, you'll see a good chunk of them were Middle Eastern countries under Shi'ite control or majority. They're also outspoken in their desire for another OPEC reserve currency.

Coincidentally, and you may not believe this, but the 4 Biggest Oil Producers in the world in order are:

Russia
Saudi Arabia
United States
Iran

Saudi Arabia is the biggest producer in OPEC with Iran following. Direct competitors with one another, religiously and economically. SA in favor of the USD and Iran in favor of the Euro or Gold.

Quite a coincidence if you look at the conflicts we've had recently. So where does Syria fit in there?

Syria itself isn’t a major oil producer. The country’s exports have been severely restricted by U.S. and European Union sanctions in recent years and its energy infrastructure has been damaged by unrest. However, it lies in close proximity to pipelines and sea routes that transport much of the world’s crude. Probably more so than any other country in the region.

Syria is a geographic gold mine for the oil industry and that's probably a big reason for the US and Saudi interest. Again, a potential profit point.

reply to post by ZiggyMojo

All of these countries are also hotbeds for Muslim religious tension

And America is a hotbed for random gun violence ...in schools, malls, theatres etc.
I saw it on the news so I guess its true.

Saudi Arabian Prince Al-Waleed has many ties to Washington

Common knowledge.
But the American media hasn't done enough to bring up the fact that Bush's family had ties to the Bin Laden family. Too much for the common public to handle? Especially at the time when George W. Bush was president?

The vast majority of "hijackers" involved in 9/11 were admitted to be Saudis and members of Al Qaeda. (15 of 19 Hijackers were Saudi)

Several of the 19 showed up alive AFTER 9/11.
But hey, if a terrorists passport could survive a huge fireball to land on the ground and be found, then why not the terrorists themselves? I guess miracles do happen.

Bin Laden..

American pawn in the Afghan-Soviet war... whose family had close ties to the Bush family.
But lets make sure that this subject isn't brought up too often on American MSM.

Alleged CIA involvement with Saudi Arabia in the creation and support of Al Qaeda.

An organized group known as Al-Qaeda with their hi-tech cave hideouts are about as "real" as the C.O.B.R.A. organization.


The corrupt Saudi regime and the US are in bed together. Why else do you suppose an American president and Saudi royalty would do this

Just my 2 cents on this matter.

And America is a hotbed for random gun violence ...in schools, malls, theatres etc.
I saw it on the news so I guess its true.

You also don't see people invading the US or destabilizing the country. What point are you trying to make here? You honestly believe that I just absorb what I see on the news as truth? I have heard stories first hand from ALL kinds of people that have actually lived in, are from or worked in the Middle East. It is undoubtedly a hotbed for religious tensions. It isn't just made up for the news. Does the US play a role in that? Hell yes we do, we stir a the pot a lot over there. Why? Because of everything we've discussed so far in this thread... Much of it leading right to the Saudis.

Common knowledge.
But the American media hasn't done enough to bring up the fact that Bush's family had ties to the Bin Laden family. Too much for the common public to handle? Especially at the time when George W. Bush was president?

Again, what's your point? Placing the blame on Bush and not the Saudis? He has far more ties to Washington than the Bush family. He has economic interests here bigger than any of it.

Several of the 19 showed up alive AFTER 9/11.
But hey, if a terrorists passport could survive a huge fireball to land on the ground and be found, then why not the terrorists themselves? I guess miracles do happen.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here either. Are you saying they weren't Saudi? We made that up? You don't need a passport to determine someone's identity, and passports are stored in massive databases. The guys were on planes, their passports were scanned. The true intentions behind 9/11 aren't the discussion here but they may be a part of the evidence tying Saudi Arabia to more US intervention.

Bin Laden..
American pawn in the Afghan-Soviet war... whose family had close ties to the Bush family.
But lets make sure that this subject isn't brought up too often on American MSM.

Again, the ties are much broader than the Bush family. The Bush's were pawns just as well. Same with the Obama's. The common interest among all parties is oil and profit. Obviously the MSM is not going to cover these things as there would be no public support for a war that was meant for someone else's profit.

An organized group known as Al-Qaeda with their hi-tech cave hideouts are about as "real" as the C.O.B.R.A. organization.

Al Qaeda is real, but they may not be exactly what the American public believe them to be. Al Nusra is the Syrian rendition/offshoot of Al Qaeda, and they are the ones the US planned to support (probably already are). Just as the US has supported and supplied Al Qaeda in the past, with added backing from Saudi Arabia.

The corrupt Saudi regime and the US are in bed together. Why else do you suppose an American president and Saudi royalty would do this

Not sure if serious.. That picture is Photoshopped. I'm no Bush lover by any means, but I sense a great bit of hatred towards him in your post. I think you're a bit misguided if you believe it's all his and his father's fault. This problem started a lot earlier than either of the Bush presidencies. The current administration is towing the same line, so I dunno what difference it makes, they're all guilty. The evidence is mounting to show that everything we're experiencing now was part of a much broader economical pact/alliance made during the conception of OPEC and most likely long before that.

I really Enjoyed reading this. Well thought out & Convincing if I may say so.. Thanks for provoking me to think a little, something MSM tries hard to encourage the exact opposite. That's why I love this site.

reply to post by ZiggyMojo

You also don't see people invading the US or destabilizing the country.

I think I might want to bring up something that may be applicable to this thread in a response to that quote from your last post.

Invading? No. Destabilizing? My opinion is yes. Are you familiar with long-game subversion? Basically long game subversion requires two things, an open society, and a society that wants to subvert the open society. The subversion process takes least two generations to really start working, that is to say, two periods of time in which a child grows to adulthood and has their own child. In the US the average age of new mothers is 25.1 (in 2008). So if it were to start today, it would take 50 years before the affects were apparent. The thing about long game subversion like this is that because everyone, or almost everyone growing up in those 50 years are exposed to the subversion, they themselves don't know its happening, and more than likely are supporting the process. Basically the subversion process's aim is to slowly indoctrinate a society to turn its back on the things that made it great. Media and education are the two primary deliverers of conflicting indoctrination. But anything can be used. Its a topic for another thread for sure, but I think the Saudi-Israel-UK-FED relationship could probably reveal a lot about it.

To many people, the state of affairs in the US just seems or feels wrong. It's nothing terribly specific, but rather a myriad of different issues that make it seem this way.

To give an example of countries that are not prone to subversion: Russia and North Korea. Even though the Russian economy is basically capitalist now, many things about that country are not. Their treatment of homosexuals is a specific example. Depending on your own personal views, they may or may not be treating homosexuals unfairly over there, but to them, from their outlook, they are intercepting a culture that is counter to their own before it can get a foothold. They are preventing something they consider distinctly not Russian from being a part of Russian culture.

North Korea has such a stranglehold on every individuals life over there, it's basically impossible to subvert.

Is it possible to have an open society while still being robust against long game subversion? I don't know.

Galvatron
reply to post by ZiggyMojo

 

You also don't see people invading the US or destabilizing the country.

I think I might want to bring up something that may be applicable to this thread in a response to that quote from your last post.

Invading? No. Destabilizing? My opinion is yes. Are you familiar with long-game subversion? Basically long game subversion requires two things, an open society, and a society that wants to subvert the open society. The subversion process takes least two generations to really start working, that is to say, two periods of time in which a child grows to adulthood and has their own child. In the US the average age of new mothers is 25.1 (in 2008). So if it were to start today, it would take 50 years before the affects were apparent. The thing about long game subversion like this is that because everyone, or almost everyone growing up in those 50 years are exposed to the subversion, they themselves don't know its happening, and more than likely are supporting the process. Basically the subversion process's aim is to slowly indoctrinate a society to turn its back on the things that made it great. Media and education are the two primary deliverers of conflicting indoctrination. But anything can be used. Its a topic for another thread for sure, but I think the Saudi-Israel-UK-FED relationship could probably reveal a lot about it.

To many people, the state of affairs in the US just seems or feels wrong. It's nothing terribly specific, but rather a myriad of different issues that make it seem this way.

To give an example of countries that are not prone to subversion: Russia and North Korea. Even though the Russian economy is basically capitalist now, many things about that country are not. Their treatment of homosexuals is a specific example. Depending on your own personal views, they may or may not be treating homosexuals unfairly over there, but to them, from their outlook, they are intercepting a culture that is counter to their own before it can get a foothold. They are preventing something they consider distinctly not Russian from being a part of Russian culture.

North Korea has such a stranglehold on every individuals life over there, it's basically impossible to subvert.

Is it possible to have an open society while still being robust against long game subversion? I don't know.

edit on 11-9-2013 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)

In that sense, yes, I feel the US is definitely being destabilized and subverted. I think you bring up a great point, and it would be a good thread to create for discussion beyond this topic specifically. It is a subject people talk about in passing without truly knowing what they are talking about, but it is very real. I think it does apply directly to this discussion too.

Very little oil comes to the USA from the ME.
In a few years we may even stop importing oil,and become energy self sufficient.
The actual issue is not the oil,but the currency used to buy that oil.
China,the EU,Japan etc do not create USD. They have to get that from only source.
To get the USD they have to sell something and get paid for it in USD.

I totally agree that the biggest threats to ME peace are Saudi Arabia and Israel.

But--and this is a big but--Saudi needs an Israel. With Israel right in everyones back yard,they become the bad guy for the Arab world. This bad guy allows the Saudis to get away with murder while preaching extremism.The billions that have been taken from the citizens of SA while the Royals live very high off the hog is astounding.

Israel was put in the area to act as the staging area for the UK,and now they help the US UK petrodollar alliance(ever wonder why the UK never adopted the Euro)

The money that they take,goes to houses,jets-either Boeing or Airbus with Rolls-Royce engines,cars,drugs and hookers in the west.In short the money that they get from oil comes back for the most part to the USA and the UK.

The Saudis do not control the USA.They have influence but they know that if they get out of line they are 72 hours away from a CIA led revolution. Every country in the region is in the same boat.

The Sunni extremists are funded by SA,but they serve a purpose,they are a ready militia able to ferment strife in a matter of days-from Libya to Yemen and the Sudan and Turkey and Syria-and all points in between. The strife is orchestrated at the highest levels of the USA,and the Saudis along with the Pak ISI,and lately the Turkish MIT get er done.

In short its a very beneficial arraignment. The super rich get richer. The middle class Joe6P in the USA gets the benies of the world reserve currency,The Saudi Royals know that they are secure in power because the US is backing them.The Israelis know that they are secure since they serve the same masters as the Saudis.

The only price paid is by the people who die in violence.The USS Cole,911,US service men,One hundred thousand in Syria,about 1 million in Iraq,and god knows how many in Afghanistan( the only country who has been to war with 4 superpowers-Alexander the Great,the British,The Soviet Union,and now the USA). BTW,the various sects of Islam never really took hold in Afghanistan,they were usually just Koranic muslims.That is until Saudi help arrived,and they have adapted extreme wahabism.

The Saudis know that Shia Islam could put a stop to wahabism. Hence the desire to end Shia islam.
With the help of the US MIC and Intel,they may pull it off.

Too many words and thoughts sorry.

reply to post by ZiggyMojo


my reply NO #TE
MOST DEFINITELY THEM RELIGIOUS NUTS WHO REALLY RUN SAUDI ARABIA ARE RESPONSIBLE. if only gw had the testicles to go to war with them in first place after 911 no he flew saudi royalty out of new york sep 12 while every one else was still grounded

I also have to admit that while I more or less fully understood the Petrodollar system and the way it has defined the US' role in the middle east, and the agreement we signed with the Saudis after Breton Woods agreement passed, and how our agression against Saddam was mainly a result of his desire to favor the Euro for oil commerce, and even that the prime resistance groups in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, etc are all Saudis, it didn't come full cricle for me how deeply the Saudis were involved in the whole lot until this Syria lesson.

I think Syria taught alot of us who were lagging behind that Qatar and the Saudis have been colluding very closely with the US, and we have been pursuing their interests to same extent as our own. This must be the part of the Petrodollar agreement where we pledged to "support Saudi Arabia militarily". How much more literal could it be.

The Saudi offer to pay for the bombing campaign should be 800 font red letters spelling that out.

The only thing is... the Saudi's are the Wahabi sect... they are no more sunni than Jehovah's witnesses are Christians, so that is another layer of weirdness.

joeraynor
I also have to admit that while I more or less fully understood the Petrodollar system and the way it has defined the US' role in the middle east, and the agreement we signed with the Saudis after Breton Woods agreement passed, and how our agression against Saddam was mainly a result of his desire to favor the Euro for oil commerce, and even that the prime resistance groups in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, etc are all Saudis, it didn't come full cricle for me how deeply the Saudis were involved in the whole lot until this Syria lesson.

I think Syria taught alot of us who were lagging behind that Qatar and the Saudis have been colluding very closely with the US, and we have been pursuing their interests to same extent as our own. This must be the part of the Petrodollar agreement where we pledged to "support Saudi Arabia militarily". How much more literal could it be.

The Saudi offer to pay for the bombing campaign should be 800 font red letters spelling that out.

The only thing is... the Saudi's are the Wahabi sect... they are no more sunni than Jehovah's witnesses are Christians, so that is another layer of weirdness.

The relationship between Wahhabi and Sunni is closer than that. The core beliefs are the same, but the practices are different. It's more like a run of the mill Christian vs Evangelical Southern Christians. Same core beliefs, different practices and one is more likely to shove their beliefs down your throat.

I'm having some lingering thoughts after some things recently brought up in the thread. Perhaps Wahhabism is the product of long term subversion from western society or Christianity or even Judaism and their purpose is to assimilate Wahhabi practice with regular Sunni practice to blur the lines even more. In this way they can weaken and destabilize Islam in a way that further allows for manipulation of the culture and society.. Specifically in economic areas.. Kind of what we're seeing going on now.

reply to post by ZiggyMojo


My understanding is that Wahhabism started out as a counter culture to moderate Islam in the 1700s. Basically the Ottomans were fairly moderate Muslims and their empire dominated much of the Islamic world for almost 500 years. Most, but not all of the Arabian peninsula was relatively free from Ottoman rule. The Ottomans, being a top tier world power at the time, also had all the trappings of societies in human history that have held such a lofty position of influence in the world. People were "innovating" Islam to fit their modern lifestyles. Long story short, the Muslims were on the verge of what can best be described as a protestant movement. The Wahhabi movement was a counter culture that was started by Muhammad al-Wahhab and a coalition of imams and Amirs to put simply, secure their own religious and political power under the guise of a grass roots back to basics movement.

At first glance, it seems like a purely internal movement that wasn't necessarily influenced by outside, foreign, or non-Muslim societies, but the above is the extent of my knowledge so who knows.

ZiggyMojo

joeraynor
I also have to admit that while I more or less fully understood the Petrodollar system and the way it has defined the US' role in the middle east, and the agreement we signed with the Saudis after Breton Woods agreement passed, and how our agression against Saddam was mainly a result of his desire to favor the Euro for oil commerce, and even that the prime resistance groups in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, etc are all Saudis, it didn't come full cricle for me how deeply the Saudis were involved in the whole lot until this Syria lesson.

I think Syria taught alot of us who were lagging behind that Qatar and the Saudis have been colluding very closely with the US, and we have been pursuing their interests to same extent as our own. This must be the part of the Petrodollar agreement where we pledged to "support Saudi Arabia militarily". How much more literal could it be.

The Saudi offer to pay for the bombing campaign should be 800 font red letters spelling that out.

The only thing is... the Saudi's are the Wahabi sect... they are no more sunni than Jehovah's witnesses are Christians, so that is another layer of weirdness.

The relationship between Wahhabi and Sunni is closer than that. The core beliefs are the same, but the practices are different. It's more like a run of the mill Christian vs Evangelical Southern Christians. Same core beliefs, different practices and one is more likely to shove their beliefs down your throat.

I'm having some lingering thoughts after some things recently brought up in the thread. Perhaps Wahhabism is the product of long term subversion from western society or Christianity or even Judaism and their purpose is to assimilate Wahhabi practice with regular Sunni practice to blur the lines even more. In this way they can weaken and destabilize Islam in a way that further allows for manipulation of the culture and society.. Specifically in economic areas.. Kind of what we're seeing going on now.

edit on 12-9-2013 by ZiggyMojo because: (no reason given)

I think you're right on target with the intent (of someone) to blur the lines so as to weaken and destabilize Islam to allow the manipulation of their culture and be in a position to either control or destroy it. Or maybe more so to get them to destroy themselves.

What we think of as western culture and christianity, which is dependent upon the old testament for context, was being manipulated and destabilized even as it was being written, often by the same control hungry people and for the same purpose.

But if you go back to the "beginning", Judaic law itself was designed as a complex and blurred belief system, which became ever more complex and blurred as a succession of rabbis and scholars tinkered with it so that anything that grew out of its origins would necessarily be ~ a mess.

Those rabbis and scholars, along with the "new" Church, had a long shot at destabilizing Europe, which is probably the fundamental reason Europe's history is crammed with continuous chaos and wars. England, for example, may have appeared strong externally, but internally and spiritually it was ~ a mess.

Of course this is just my opinion, but behavior seems to be far more important than beliefs when you're looking for the good guys and judging people based on their beliefs alone isn't going to solve the problems, they have to be judged by what they do.

So I came across this commentary on behaviors describing the differences between Sunni and Wahhabi beliefs, written by a Muslim:

Sunnis believe in modesty, Wahhabi believe in extremism

Sunnis believe that killing people just because they don't believe in real islam is sin, Wahhabi believe that killing those who do not believe in true Islam is one of the most fundamentals of Islam known as Jihad, and Allah will reward those killings

Wahhabi believe that human being should strive for 72 virgins they can get in heaven, they believe that the more jihad you do the more virgins you will get in heaven. Sunnis believe that we should follow Allah because of the Love for Allah and not for having sex with 72 virgins.

Wahhabi believe that women should not take education other than reading quran and hadith. Sunnis believe that for all human being education is must.

Wahabi women are not allowed to drive a car, Sunni women can drive a car.

www.blurtit.com...

So based on this description it sounds like there are many more commonalities between Sunni and Shia than there ever could be between either of them and Wahhabi. And what a powerhouse of political influence would arise in the Muslim world without the destabilizing factor of Wahhabism that's been wedged in between them.

Cui bono?

I have been following this thread as well as doing my own research lately. I think you guys have brought up some really strong points that are supported by history. However, I’m left with one very important question. What do we have to gain from supporting Al Qaeda? Especially since we are in direct conflict with them in Afghanistan. In a speech released today by Al Qaeda leader Al-Zawahri, he asked the region to "abandon the dollar and replace it with a currency of other countries that are not taking part in the aggression against us.” If we are using them to secure the petrodollar, why is the leader releasing a statement asking the region to abandon it? I would really appreciate some clarification.

reply to post by frazzle


Now that's interesting that you bring up the subject of the Donmeh as I've been doing some reading regarding them and the Illuminati. I had a link to Wayne Madsen's original article but once I posted onto a forum and it vanished after 5 mins. But I found a copy of it here. Wayne Madsen's .... The Donmeh

Wayne Madsen is an investigative journalist, author and syndicated columnist. He has twenty years experience in security issues. He has also been a frequent political and national security commentator on Fox News and has also appeared on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera and PBS

There is a historical "eight hundred pound gorilla" lurking in the background of almost every serious military and diplomatic incident involving Israel, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Greece, Armenia, the Kurds, the Assyrians, and some other players in the Middle East and southeastern Europe. It is a factor that is generally only whispered about at diplomatic receptions, news conferences, and think tank sessions due to the explosiveness and controversial nature of the subject. And it is the secretiveness attached to the subject that has been the reason for so much misunderstanding about the current breakdown in relations between Israel and Turkey, a growing warming of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, and increasing enmity between Saudi Arabia and Iran

Source: www.defence.pk...

And this one ... linking the Donmeh to the illuminati.
Turkey's "Donmeh" are the Illuminati Prototype

The author speculates ...

My hunch is that the Illuminati follows the Donmeh pattern. They are Cabalist Jews, half-Jews and crypto Jews. They appear to include generational satanists from all other ethnic backgrounds. They form a Masonic or Cabalist secret society and participate in satanic rituals like human sacrifice.

Not sure of the validity of these claims... it was written by a guy from Turkey

Within the Arab Spring in Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, Syria, Tunis, Libya, Yemen and Turkey, tens of "Justice and Development Parties" were established. In the Middle East, these parties were supported by the Illuminati Jew-controlled Muslim Brotherhood'

Fethullah Gülen has been working for the CIA since 1964 when American diplomat Graham Füller created him and financed him using drug money. He is believed to have amassed $25 billion from heroin. The Gulen movement "forms the apex of a huge conglomerate that includes NGOs, firms, newspapers and college dormitories in Turkey, plus schools across the world."

1. "Court records and the testimony of former government officials show that Fethullah Gulen, who presently resides in Pennsylvania, has amassed more than $25 billion in assets from the heroin route which runs from Afghanistan to Turkey.

Illuminati-Terrorizes-Controls-Turkey[ editby]edit on 13-9-2013 by LexiconV because: added a link