Conservative policies responsible for the 105 Child Prostitutes.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
So what do you want to do with programs that total 90 trillion in unfunded liabilities?

Screw it, just keep monitizing the debt and collapse the economy??

To be fair, and I typically don't support Muse's viewpoint, that isn't the suggestion.

"Fix it" can mean many things. I doubt continuing to fund a losing proposition would qualify as "fixing it".

However....OP: trotting out the "its for the children" card is right up there with "racism!!!" on my list of tactics I detest. If the DNC's answer is to continue to fund and subsidize reproduction among America's poor, they are just as bad as anyone.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Thom Hartmann explains it perfectly

No he doesn't sum up anything.

Agree.

Originally posted by HauntWok
So? Apparently you are cool with underage prostitution. Cause that's part of the black market free enterprise system.

Care to show the correlation to your thinking here? I am curious. On that note it can be shown that draconian measures implemented by the State in spite of the Free Market create such "Black Markets". They are a direct result of Government policies against the natural free market principles that humans operate within.

Yes, full of suffering too. Like underage girls forced to sell their bodies just to try and survive. These young ladies have no real access to any government services or protection. They live off the grid as it were.

You are on fire with that knee-jerk response thing. Always have been really.

There is a downside to your free market utopia. And it's a human cost not a financial cost.

And there is a down-side to your Centrally Controlled Utopia and it is what we are seeing.....black markets are created when the State effectively manipulates a natural free-market; drugs, ride-share programs (see SFO ride-share program), prostitution, etc....)

reply to post by neo96


No really, if you want a free market system, look no further than Somalia.

That's a country with no real functioning government. Free enterprise all the way. I can't believe that Corporations haven't already taken over that country with help from Blackwater mercenaries. Oh right, they got jack squat for natural resources, so there's no profit to be made from exploiting the people.

Sometimes we do need laws Neo, just to protect people from those that would take advantage of those that can't help themselves.

It's not a red herring, it's actually happening. This does exist. This kind of crap does need to end, and those that perpetuate it need to be brought to justice. Furthermore the root cause of the problem that leads to it needs to be routed out and fixed.

In this case it's education. Educated young women rarely turn to prostitution to make ends meet.

When will the extreme right wing understand that education is the key to real freedom and prosperity?

#701 Richest people in the world

Let's meet one of your kings of free enterprise.Joaquin Guzman Loera, AKA "El Chapo", the leader of one of Mexico's drug cartels. Worth over a billion dollars. Makes his money off of the addictions and suffering of others.

Probably benefited from that whole "fast and furious" fake outrage scandal.

Why would you outraged that he got so much money? Why? He made it in the free enterprise black market.

Obviously he has a great business model, he has a net worth of over a billion dollars. His business practice works obviously or he wouldn't be worth that much now would he?

Want a face to put to your free enterprise utopia Neo? Want an example? There it is Neo. Like what you see? Here is a man that has made over a billion dollars without government regulations.

There's the face of free enterprise Neo. Tell me, please, now, how many bodies has that man in his quest to become so wealthy off the free enterprise system caused?

Do we need complete government control over every industry? Of course not, sensible regulations do just fine. But when you eliminate every single regulation there is, this is what you get, you get Joaquin Guzman Loera, and all the blood on his hands for the product he produces.

If you eliminate all government power and control, you also get underage prostitution. Eliminate education for our young, you get people without opportunities who have to turn to this life just to make it.

Is this the world you want to live in Neo? Obviously you don't have children (I won't even ask if you do) Because if you have children, this isn't the life you would wish on them (at least I hope it isn't)

The United States has always been about Freedom, Freedom tempered with laws and regulations that the people backed. Absolute freedom is anarchy and that anarchy leads to child prostitution and men like Joaquin Guzman Loera.

But it seems you are fine by that prospect. You aren't thinking that all corporations would act like Joaquin Guzman Loera without regulations. I don't know why you would think that, but it seems like that is the way you think.

I guess some men truly just want to watch the world burn, I guess you are one of them Neo.

reply to post by ownbestenemy

Care to show the correlation to your thinking here?

What you think that underage prostitution is main stream? I wouldn't know.

You are on fire with that knee-jerk response thing. Always have been really.

Oh underage child prostitution is knee jerk? Really? Do you have children? Do you have a daughter? Do you think this is an appropriate career move for her? Do you know when laws started? The Code of Ur-Nammu

Do you know why we have so many laws on the books? The reason is that if there isn't a law against it. someone will do it just to be a jackass.

What, you think that child prostitution is ok? That it shouldn't be illegal?

Oh no you say, that's free market economics, those young ladies are early entrepreneurs!

Na, they aren't just trying to survive, and being exploited at the same time.

It's all free market baby. let the free market roll.

Knee jerk my ass, it's the oldest profession and one that we shouldn't let our children be subjected to.

reply to post by HauntWok


I see someone switched up their 'argument' after the last one failed.

Sometimes we do need laws Neo, just to protect people from those that would take advantage of those that can't help themselves.

Really think people need a law telling them not to pimp their children?

Seriously?

Oh an laws only punish AFTER the FACT doesn't prevent anything.

It's not a red herring, it's actually happening. This does exist. This kind of crap does need to end, and those that perpetuate it need to be brought to justice. Furthermore the root cause of the problem that leads to it needs to be routed out and fixed.

The famous 'social justice' just pay no attention to that weapon of mass destruction that is worse than 'we the people' ever thought about being.

In this case it's education. Educated young women rarely turn to prostitution to make ends meet.

Never heard of congressman I see.

When will the extreme right wing understand that education is the key to real freedom and prosperity?

Funny when will the left wing figures out just throwing money at people doesn't make them 'smart'.

Let's meet one of your kings of free enterprise.Joaquin Guzman Loera, AKA "El Chapo", the leader of one of Mexico's drug cartels. Worth over a billion dollars. Makes his money off of the addictions and suffering of others.

There a point there?

That is a 'free market' practioner there who is outside of US government influence and whoddda thunk it is a billionaire as opposed to all the millions here in the country who live like paupers.

Probably benefited from that whole "fast and furious" fake outrage scandal.

So did conservative opposites they gots a bunch of new voters running north of the border.

Why would you outraged that he got so much money? Why? He made it in the free enterprise black market.

A black market that was created by the US really do need to read OWNS post brilliant guy.

Want a face to put to your free enterprise utopia Neo? Want an example? There it is Neo. Like what you see? Here is a man that has made over a billion dollars without government regulations.

Oh just have to look around at the current progressive liberal utopia with 100 million Americans on food aid,47% of Americans working part time, and 4 out of 5 Americans, near poverty.

Yes We Can!

If you eliminate all government power and control, you also get underage prostitution. Eliminate education for our young, you get people without opportunities who have to turn to this life just to make it.

As if there need to be a law for that geesh.

Is this the world you want to live in Neo? Obviously you don't have children (I won't even ask if you do) Because if you have children, this isn't the life you would wish on them (at least I hope it isn'

The world where the Parent is the childs keeper until it can take care of itself NOT GOVERNMENT.

The United States has always been about Freedom, Freedom tempered with laws and regulations that the people backed. Absolute freedom is anarchy and that anarchy leads to child prostitution and men like Joaquin Guzman Loera.

Funny they use to call that liberalism FREEDOM still using that red herring to justify BS.

Well done

Liberal progressive socialist policies have created the entitlement state, from cradle to grave. The proof is out there to look at. The people it is supposed to help end up in a hopeless condition. Prostitution comes from lack of dignity, morality, and true family cohesion. Conservatives cannot be blamed for what liberal democrats have done to the people or to the nation. History proves it.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

Care to show the correlation to your thinking here?

What you think that underage prostitution is main stream? I wouldn't know.

No but you are trying to equate it to an economic theory you do not like; so it is on you good sir. You claimed that this is a by-product of a free-market and I asked for the correlation. Again, care to show how it is? Or is it an easy thing to cast off because you know there are others who won't use their grey-matter and just say "that Huant....they are right! Free-market pigs!"

Oh underage child prostitution is knee jerk? Really? Do you have children? Do you have a daughter? Do you think this is an appropriate career move for her? Do you know when laws started? The Code of Ur-Nammu

While I suspect you understand this, I guess I should spell it out for viewers reading it. The knee-jerk comment was towards your propensity to equate one thing to another, without evidence or even reason, but rather because it "makes your point".

What my daughter does is none of your business; so why do you care? If you are so against people legislation the woman body, yet are so adamant to say they shouldn't do this.....I am DAMN CONFUSED....ANYONE ELSE?!

Do you know why we have so many laws on the books? The reason is that if there isn't a law against it. someone will do it just to be a jackass.

Or we have moved from personal responsibly (which required negative laws) to that which requires the Government to dictate one's actions (positive law).....tell you what, you want to learn and expand your mind; let me know.

What, you think that child prostitution is ok? That it shouldn't be illegal?

Never said that...you are making that assumption because of your deeply held partisan and brain-washed views.

Knee jerk my ass, it's the oldest profession and one that we shouldn't let our children be subjected to.

Completely and this statement I quoted even highlights it. You cannot even stick to a discussion about how or why an unrestricted (or restrictive in our case with the United States Government) can create such a market....

When you are ready to discuss as an educated adult and not a screaming child let me know.

Absolute madness.

The conservatives are no more responsible than the liberals and progressives.

Want to know what causes this? Greed...Lust...Gluttony...Envy...Pride...Anger and Sloth.

It doesn't matter what side of the aisle they are on....Civilization, and society in general, is in it's death throws. People do not care about each other anymore.

We have been dumbed down and distracted and instead of a country that works together to attain greatness, we are all more concerned with our own little self indulgent, personal "empires". We ask for it...we did this to ourselves..."me-me-me"...

Now society has declined so much that instead of killing pedophiles and perverts....we let them run for public office. It's freaking sickening. If the power up there in the skies does not destroy this world soon, He owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology. We wallow in filth and debauchery and we wonder why our world is falling apart...

95% of the people in the world...reflected fairly well in the diversity of this website...do not care. They pretend to care but then they will defend this atrocity or that in the name of some stupid idea that is counter productive to the evolution of humanity and civilization....morons.

Mankind has become the most horrid abomination to ever curse this planet with it's presence...

Here is the only cure.....because man will not fix himself....it's coming...sooner or later.

Originally posted by HauntWok

One and the same, the OP is blaming the scumbags truly responsible for it. Underage prostitution is the end result of crippling poverty brought about by lack of educational opportunities.

Not!

The OP is blaming the conservatives, not the perverted pimps that think it's cool to degrad woman in such a way. It's pretty sad that people can put a political twist on such a horrible event.

ATS has really taken a turn for the worse on this one...

*shakes head*

-SAP-

reply to post by neo96

Really think people need a law telling them not to pimp their children?

Apparently they do Neo. You and I might find this common sense, but as we both know Common Sense isn't really that common.

Seriously?

What you think this is ok?

Oh an laws only punish AFTER the FACT doesn't prevent anything.

It sure as hell can prevent the child from furthering being pimped out.

Never heard of congressman I see.

What do congressmen do? Oh that's right, they write laws. Maybe if the funded education more and tried to serve the military industrial complex and their corporate sponsors less, this kind of thing would happen less.

Funny when will the left wing figures out just throwing money at people doesn't make them 'smart'.

It's called "opportunity" for a reason Neo. It gives everyone an OPPORTUNITY to better themselves and make a better life for themselves. It won't work for everyone, (obviously it hasn't worked on some people)

Oh just have to look around at the current progressive liberal utopia with 100 million Americans on food aid,47% of Americans working part time, and 4 out of 5 Americans, near poverty.

Yes We Can!

There is no progressive utopia

Fact is there needs balance, if you don't have balance you end up like Detroit.

As if there need to be a law for that geesh.

Yes there does need to be a law for that.

The world where the Parent is the childs keeper until it can take care of itself NOT GOVERNMENT.

I agree with you to an extent but if it weren't for the government intervening I wouldn't have my son back, and he would still be being overmedicated and treated like a dog by his mother.

Funny they use to call that liberalism FREEDOM still using that red herring to justify BS.

There's a difference between real liberalism and the liberalism/anarchism that is practiced today.

Yea, there needs to be laws against this sort of BS, like child prostitution, no it doesn't prevent it from happening, but it damn does give us the tools to use when it does happen. Yes parents should know that pimping out your child is wrong, but without education how is that really possible?

You seem to want to eliminate the tools society has to do something about this when stuff like this happens. What do we do in your world Neo? Someone is pimping out their daughter, we say "oh that's a shame" and move on with our lives?

Oh wait. Better yet. we murder the [snip] out of the parents without a trial. Just be judge jury and executioner all in one. Cause that has never lead to retributional violence.

We need laws and regulations Neo, this is one of those times we need laws on the books. Sure it doesn't actually prevent this stuff from happening, just like having laws against murder doesn't keep all murder from happening it sure does give us as a SOCIETY a tool to punish those that commit those atrocities against our collective society.

Originally posted by HauntWok
There is no progressive utopia

There is no idealism? No goal for progressiveness? It is progress for progress sake regardless of how or what that progress is? No central goal to be aimed for? Starting from More's Utopia, there is a much desire to view the world in a humanistic understanding that there are no morals, no boundaries, and that each of us is out for our own; seeking this utopia.

Wouldn't that be the progressive utopia?

reply to post by HauntWok

Apparently they do Neo. You and I might find this common sense, but as we both know Common Sense isn't really that common.

So what part of laws don't stop anything, but punish after the fact is someone missing?

It sure as hell can prevent the child from furthering being pimped out.

No it doesn't they just grow up to be voters selling themselves to the highest bidder.

What do congressmen do? Oh that's right, they write laws. Maybe if the funded education more and tried to serve the military industrial complex and their corporate sponsors less, this kind of thing would happen less.

The MIC political machination totally pricesless and ignore the Welfare Industrial Complex that is bigger, and more costly.

Priceless.

It's called "opportunity" for a reason Neo. It gives everyone an OPPORTUNITY to better themselves and make a better life for themselves. It won't work for everyone, (obviously it hasn't worked on some people)

Tell me more about this determination of self worth by how much money government throws at the peons.

There is no progressive utopia

Absolutely correct never will be.

Yes there does need to be a law for that.

Hoorah for fascist totalitarianism the job of the parent not the state.

I agree with you to an extent but if it weren't for the government intervening I wouldn't have my son back, and he would still be being overmedicated and treated like a dog by his mother.

So you need government's permission eh?

No you don't.

Yea, there needs to be laws against this sort of BS, like child prostitution, no it doesn't prevent it from happening, but it damn does give us the tools to use when it does happen. Yes parents should know that pimping out your child is wrong, but without education how is that really possible?

So your happy being a slave to the state it telling you what you can or can't do?

You seem to want to eliminate the tools society has to do something about this when stuff like this happens. What do we do in your world Neo? Someone is pimping out their daughter, we say "oh that's a shame" and move on with our lives?

Tools of oppression it's called self governance guess conservative opposites have problems with that easy to see why state sanctioned and enforcement of morality.

Oh wait. Better yet. we murder the [snip] out of the parents without a trial. Just be judge jury and executioner all in one. Cause that has never lead to retributional violence.

Nice strawman.

We need laws and regulations Neo, this is one of those times we need laws on the books. Sure it doesn't actually prevent this stuff from happening, just like having laws against murder doesn't keep all murder from happening it sure does give us as a SOCIETY a tool to punish those that commit those atrocities against our collective society

Rather tired of progressive 'liberals' telling me what I need.

Have anything other than red herrings, and strawmans?

Something that has more substance?

reply to post by muse7


I see your point.

If the liberals had their way most children would be aborted and never grow up to be prostitutes.

I can see some kinda logic there.

reply to post by SloAnPainful

The OP is blaming the conservatives, not the perverted pimps that think it's cool to degrad woman in such a way. It's pretty sad that people can put a political twist on such a horrible event.

The pimps are just an end result from policies created by Conservatives that defund education that lead to this. The true scumbags are the ones that rob these girls of opportunities to get a decent education and therefore be able to avoid this life altogether.

reply to post by ownbestenemy

There is no idealism? No goal for progressiveness? It is progress for progress sake regardless of how or what that progress is? No central goal to be aimed for? Starting from More's Utopia, there is a much desire to view the world in a humanistic understanding that there are no morals, no boundaries, and that each of us is out for our own; seeking this utopia.

Wouldn't that be the progressive utopia?

Again, see Detroit. There is no progressive Utopia. It doesn't exist. Extremist ideas of any political leaning aren't good. Progressive ideology without being tempered by Conservatism leads to things like what is happening in Detroit.

If you want the end result of a conservative ideology gone horribly wrong, you have to look no further than Somalia. That is conservatism without progressive temperament.

reply to post by neo96

So what part of laws don't stop anything, but punish after the fact is someone missing?

I'm not missing anything and this is a circular logic fallacy game you are playing. Yes, laws don't do anything until after the fact (except they really do, because if it were freaking LEGAL to do this to children, then it would happen more)

The rest of this post of yours was just childish (nuh uh, no it isn't contrarianism.) And I am not getting into your circular logic fallacy.

We live in a society of laws Neo, the Constitution of this nation and the Constitutions of the states made up a body of government that is elected by the people in order to write and pass laws that help prevent situations like this and give society the tools to punish those that violate those laws.

And it still boils down to the fact that if you defund education, the people that end up suffering are the children. They lose opportunities to better themselves and without education many end up in lives like child prostitution or being pimps.

Not a whole lot of prostitutes out there with PHDs Neo. Just saying.

I think most child prostitutes are in the big cities.

I think most big cities are Liberal.

Big cities all have public school systems.

Where are the local politicians and parents ??

Are ALL the schools closed ?

The Liberal Federal Dept of Education should have solved this problem by now.

They've had plenty of Liberal money since 2009.

I think the Liberals are deliberately sacrificing our children just so they can blame conservatives for their own failures.

And I agree that all young child prostitutes should be in college --- but only after they go to grade school and high school.

reply to post by muse7

Thom Hartmann speaks the truth, and the truth is that conservative policies are leading more and more children into prostitution. Most of these kids are just looking for a place to live or a warm meal, and the conservatives answer to this? More cuts to social safety nets and social services.

Are you serious? Thats the truth? So you mean to imply that democrats never engage in illegal or bad activities and/or policies? Instead of ending the root problem (having kids looking for a place to live or warm meal) you would rather blame the opposition party and their policies and yet promote dependence on the government for someone's mistake of giving birth to a child they're not capable of upbringing? In other words the idiots should continue to have sex and produce babies and leave them on the streets and government should continue to take care of them? Hmmmm sounds very uneducated.

So instead of repeating the same talking points about the latest phony scandal, shouldn't we be addressing the issues that are facing our youth here at home? Instead of trying to legislate a woman's reproductive organs shouldn't we be creating programs aimed at getting these children off the streets and enrolled into school or some other activity?

Why are there children on the streets in the first place? Have you ever wondered? Is that a conservative/liberal problem? Or simply its a social/cultural (there's a big lack of it..culture) problem (Which IMO is due to LIBERAL society continually bending the rules/norms/values/fabric of the society ever so slowly every few decades) Engaging in sexual activities and giving birth to children which the parents are incapable of parenting? Or lack of familiy values and rise in divorces resulting in increase in government dependency for child support and other welfare handouts?

Thom Hartmann explains it perfectly

What do you think? Do not believe other's opinion blindfoldedly.

Originally posted by muse7
Funny how conservatives are so infatuated with a fetus yet when it's born they don't want to know about it. How about giving Women the choice whether or not to give birth to that child? Why do conservatives love forcing people into poverty? A lot of women in conservative states that are unable to get an abortion will be forced into poverty.

edit on 8/1/2013 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

Why get pregnant if you only wanted to abort the baby? Becoming pregnant and a mother is a beautiful thing. Please do not degrade and give it a bad name to the joy and a life changing experience of becoming a mother for other women. Why blame others for the mistake that a couple makes? Its the slaughter house mentality (unwanted cows, chickens, pigs etc etc are discarded and used for animal food) I see in many women as well.

By your logic, a living breathing fetus can be aborted because it is 'unwanted' then I'm sure we can demand the same about living breathing adults can be 'terminated' if they're unwanted by their partners and/or parents or society should they become a burden? Just as a woman has the right to abort their unwanted baby, why not extend the same right to the parent even after giving birth to abort/terminate their child if they become a burden and/or are unwanted as they cannot feed/clothe/nurture them due to lack of money or support from the Government? After all, by your definition a woman (parent) has the right to decide isn't it?

Originally posted by muse7

Originally posted by benrl
Kind of a stretch, by the same token its also leading people into drugs, and crime.

Its funny to me that those that want to cut social welfare are those that claim the religious right to their base.

Usually fine with war spending, but feed a child with it and hell no that's irresponsible.

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

We have to get to the point where we all admit the system is broken, so that we can fix it.

We give aid to countries left and right while our own children starve, it needs to stop.

Start with cutting off all foreign aid starting with ISRAEL and slashing the defense budget in half. Re-invest that same money in programs for the PEOPLE that benefit the people.

This is the society we've become. A begging and expecting mentality from other people and/or government to take care of their lives. Where the hell is the self respect and pride in earning a living and taking care of your family and yourself? Definitely laziness, lack of morals, social values and/or education in our society is abundant these days. With continual support of such welfare programs, no wonder we're losing jobs and our economy to the outsiders.

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
reply to post by muse7

 

This is the most asinine thing I have read on ATS in a long time.
I mean seriously, what a joke.
-SAP-

I agree. Wish I can use some classic profanity to describe how I feel about some of the topics but ATS policies wouldn't allow that