Bradley Manning found not guilty on "Aiding the enemy".

reply to post by benrl


People will forget this punks name in a few years.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by TinfoilTP

 

George Washington, had no truck with Secret Governments,,ie,, English spies,,or any Europeon Spies,,in his Republic of the people,,by the people,,for the people.
or sadly within his own ranks,,,
if thier were any.
but i believe he fought for the same thing as,,Zimmerman,,,Truth over mob rule,,Justice,,Manning not gullty,,
and the American way.

So help him God.

edit on 30-7-2013 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

Manning was just found guilty of espionage. That was enough in Washington's army to see the hangman.
He will have to spend the rest of his life in jail, maybe Washington would just shrug his shoulders and say "hangin's too good for him anyways" and move on.

The biggest flaw in your argument is that Washington, would of been who Manning was reporting the secrets to.

He would of been the British officer handing over information about the evils done by the RIGHTFUL British government, he would of been the one telling him that the British troops fired at civilians on that bridge.

reply to post by benrl


wheel's inside of wheels,,,amazing perspective.

Originally posted by thesaneone
reply to post by jhn7537

 

Orders are orders don't want to follow them then join a mercenary group and not the U.S military.

Manning did follow orders.

Bradley Manning's Legal Duty to Expose War Crimes

The "Collateral Murder" video depicts a US Apache attack helicopter killing 12 civilians and wounding two children on the ground in Baghdad in 2007. The helicopter then fired on and killed the people trying to rescue the wounded. Finally, a US tank drove over one of the bodies, cutting the man in half. These acts constitute three separate war crimes.

Section 499 of the Army Field Manual states, "Every violation of the law of war is a war crime." The law of war is contained in the Geneva Conventions.

Enshrined in the US Army Subject Schedule No. 27-1 is "the obligation to report all violations of the law of war." At his guilty plea hearing, Manning explained that he had gone to his chain of command and asked them to investigate the "Collateral Murder" video and other "war porn," but his superiors refused.

It seems the people who were not following orders were Mannings "superiors" up to and including the Commander in Chief.

Originally posted by thesaneone
reply to post by benrl

 

People will forget this punks name in a few years.

You keep calling him a punk and by definition that's "a worthless person", well, as you can see, many people disagree with you and believe he served some good. Now, your posts on the other hand are worthless, you add nothing, other than calling Bradley Manning a punk over and over again...

reply to post by benrl


We really aren't too far apart on this, I'm thinking. It's how I can see what Daniel Ellsberg did in unconditionally positive light.....Snowden in what continues to grow murky ....and Manning as outright rogue to even the 'cause' he told himself he was supporting. It's method and outcome.

It's also, as noted, this outright anarchist and near suicidal attitude of 'The ends justifies the means'. No. It doesn't. When the means are criminal, the ends don't justify it. Ends may mitigate it, but they never justify.

Now if people are truly passionate about seeing Manning do something other than rot into dust in the cell of a military prison, THIS ...not before..is the time to do something about it, IMO. He committed crimes. He HAD to stand for those crimes..and now, he has. One man in the world can help Manning at this point and it's the only level Manning ever had hope from, if anywhere, to start with.

The President can commute or pardon him for any reason or just the whim of no particular reason at all but that he feels like it.

Snowden is getting murky because he first sounded man enough to stand for what he'd done ...not hide and cower for what he's basically now made a self imposed life sentence in DEEP DEEP hiding. Basically, forever. The agencies he burned will never, ever, till the end of TIME ...stop hunting him. I don't give him odds of a snowball in the Mojave to survive this.

Ellsberg is the only one of the three who had the courage and the honor to do what he thought was right....*AND* stand tall to face whatever came for doing it. In his case, it paid off. Now some may claim that the enemies of the early 70's and Nixon were nothing to what Snowden faces ...and I'll just laugh softly. How dangerous can people become and how many times can they kill one guy? The CIA of the 60's and 70's were worse than today, if anything.

Manning could have stood tall ....instead of being dragged out of the shadows, clawing at the floor as he went, figuratively speaking. A small thing to some...and no matter at all to others. The difference of a patriot vs. a traitor to me (among other things). Push for commutation though. It's the only hope he has left for a couple decades.

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom

Originally posted by thesaneone
reply to post by jhn7537

 

Orders are orders don't want to follow them then join a mercenary group and not the U.S military.

Manning did follow orders.

Bradley Manning's Legal Duty to Expose War Crimes

The "Collateral Murder" video depicts a US Apache attack helicopter killing 12 civilians and wounding two children on the ground in Baghdad in 2007. The helicopter then fired on and killed the people trying to rescue the wounded. Finally, a US tank drove over one of the bodies, cutting the man in half. These acts constitute three separate war crimes.

Section 499 of the Army Field Manual states, "Every violation of the law of war is a war crime." The law of war is contained in the Geneva Conventions.

Enshrined in the US Army Subject Schedule No. 27-1 is "the obligation to report all violations of the law of war." At his guilty plea hearing, Manning explained that he had gone to his chain of command and asked them to investigate the "Collateral Murder" video and other "war porn," but his superiors refused.

It seems the people who were not following orders were Mannings "superiors" up to and including the Commander in Chief.

Yes, you see the powers that be want to have it all their own way.

A precedent was set at Nuremberg that "just doing my duty" or "just following orders" is not a defence, and several people were hanged after that trial, by not standing up and refusing to carry out the orders, or blowing the whistle on them (even though they'd have been shot), it cost them their lives.

And yet here we have a man who has followed this precedent, set largely by the US at Nuremberg, and bugger me if he isn't getting hanged as well (figuratively speaking).

What we collectively done over there in Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan is to MURDER hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, and for what?

So the greedy rich can get their hands on their oil and gold and anything else with a value.

Dare to tell the public the truth and you're in deep doo doo's.

If you support the imprisonment of Manning, then you support the powers that be to do what they like to who they like with no opposition or day of reckoning.

The morons who drone on about "he's a traitor to "our country"" are xenophobic idiots.

He's standing up for YOU and YOUR rights, it's just that some people are too dumb to even begin to comprehend that,.

I am gravely saddened that Manning did not get the death penalty for the totality of his actions.
Sure he may have done one part of it on moral grounds, but he went beyond that and committed treason. He needed to have received the same treatment as Benedict Arnold.

With an epitaph of,


Bradly Manning,
One moral action
did not absolve
him of his treason.

I hope all you people who think he's a hero are going to send him care packages so he can buy protection in prison. He'll need it.

M.

reply to post by Moshpet


Gravely saddened that someone wasn't put to death???

I would like to think that we've evolved from the days of Benedict Arnold, but I guess not......

Originally posted by elysiumfire
TinfoilTP:

Elysiumfire: Excellent news! I'm really happy for him. What message does this send to the politicians wanting Snowden burnt at the stake? If this keeps up, I might start believing that the 'awake' are actually awake and active. Please, let it be so.

Getting 71 -128 years in prison is a win win for you? I suppose in your mind Snowden is probably saying "meh, I can do that standing on my head" as the politicians cry? Convicted criminal is going to prison and never getting out, any way you spin it.

On your face is an appendage which sticks out, it's called a nose, and believe it or not, beyond its tip, there is a whole world to explore. As usual, I have to fill in the blanks for those those whose eyesight can barely see beyond their nose tip.

Manning has been found guilty, because he did indeed break the law. The one count on which he wasn't found guilty was aiding and abetting the enemy (whatever enemy you want it to be that frightens you). This has a consequence for journalism and journalists and the reportage of events, especially those that come under the umbrella term of national security.

Do you believe that journalism should act as a moral and lawful spotlight on those that would commit crime shielded by quirk and perk of their employment? Whistle-blowers place information they feel is important to the public's consciousness. They do this because they believe it is morally right to do so, because the public has every right to expect non-duplicitous, non-criminal behaviour from politicians, corporations, and intelligence services, etc. Once the information is out in the public sphere, it is up to journalists to run with it and inform the public of its significance. This count of 'not guilty' for Manning, was also a count of 'not guilty' for journalism.

Hope that clarifies the issue for you.

No, it just means he went to wikileaks which gave out the information for enemies to obtain instead of directly handing it to enemies.

He still will spend the rest of his life in prison, not exactly a boon to being a whistleblower/treasonist.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by benrl

 

We really aren't too far apart on this, I'm thinking. It's how I can see what Daniel Ellsberg did in unconditionally positive light.....Snowden in what continues to grow murky ....and Manning as outright rogue to even the 'cause' he told himself he was supporting. It's method and outcome.

It's also, as noted, this outright anarchist and near suicidal attitude of 'The ends justifies the means'. No. It doesn't. When the means are criminal, the ends don't justify it. Ends may mitigate it, but they never justify.

Now if people are truly passionate about seeing Manning do something other than rot into dust in the cell of a military prison, THIS ...not before..is the time to do something about it, IMO. He committed crimes. He HAD to stand for those crimes..and now, he has. One man in the world can help Manning at this point and it's the only level Manning ever had hope from, if anywhere, to start with.

The President can commute or pardon him for any reason or just the whim of no particular reason at all but that he feels like it.

Snowden is getting murky because he first sounded man enough to stand for what he'd done ...not hide and cower for what he's basically now made a self imposed life sentence in DEEP DEEP hiding. Basically, forever. The agencies he burned will never, ever, till the end of TIME ...stop hunting him. I don't give him odds of a snowball in the Mojave to survive this.

Ellsberg is the only one of the three who had the courage and the honor to do what he thought was right....*AND* stand tall to face whatever came for doing it. In his case, it paid off. Now some may claim that the enemies of the early 70's and Nixon were nothing to what Snowden faces ...and I'll just laugh softly. How dangerous can people become and how many times can they kill one guy? The CIA of the 60's and 70's were worse than today, if anything.

Manning could have stood tall ....instead of being dragged out of the shadows, clawing at the floor as he went, figuratively speaking. A small thing to some...and no matter at all to others. The difference of a patriot vs. a traitor to me (among other things). Push for commutation though. It's the only hope he has left for a couple decades.

As Ive noticed we often are near on the same issues just not exact.

Manning broke laws, yes, and by the letter of such deserves penalty,

Just as Zimmerman (just an example to use nothing more on my part) by the letter of the law, deserves to be found innocent.

The problem lies in the current state of things we find ourselves, the Media, alters perception of the masses on a daily basis.

And you are right, as such he deserves penalty, in a perfect world the Jury would of Nullified, or the president would of pardoned.

As it stands now yes the only action would be to write our reps and demand his fair treatment or release.

This verdict should sit uneasy with the American people, it should give pause to everyone who is sitting blissfully unaware of the corruption, and perhaps this was my fault for not making it clear.

Any sentence Manning gets should be looked upon as his deserved sentence, and the cost of being a Martyr to the America that held the truth to be important.

Originally posted by benrl

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by TinfoilTP

 

George Washington, had no truck with Secret Governments,,ie,, English spies,,or any Europeon Spies,,in his Republic of the people,,by the people,,for the people.
or sadly within his own ranks,,,
if thier were any.
but i believe he fought for the same thing as,,Zimmerman,,,Truth over mob rule,,Justice,,Manning not gullty,,
and the American way.

So help him God.

edit on 30-7-2013 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

Manning was just found guilty of espionage. That was enough in Washington's army to see the hangman.
He will have to spend the rest of his life in jail, maybe Washington would just shrug his shoulders and say "hangin's too good for him anyways" and move on.

The biggest flaw in your argument is that Washington, would of been who Manning was reporting the secrets to.

He would of been the British officer handing over information about the evils done by the RIGHTFUL British government, he would of been the one telling him that the British troops fired at civilians on that bridge.

Lol, now you are changing his nationality to try to fit him to your narrative.

I'll play that game too and go all the way, be an all out truther, and make him an Al Qaida soldier.

TinfoilTP:

He still will spend the rest of his life in prison...

In that case, I will add my happiness for you on having your dream realised.

It amuses me, looking at your avatar, I cannot make up my mind if it is hero worship or your role model...and you have the audacity to berate Manning! The mind boggles.

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by Moshpet

 

Gravely saddened that someone wasn't put to death???

I would like to think that we've evolved from the days of Benedict Arnold, but I guess not......

Yes, I am saddened that the military tribunal didn't have the balls to execute him for his treasonous crimes. It will only lead to more people committing the same crimes as Manning, if not to a more dangerous extent; because he didn't get executed for it. He did one morally correct thing, then went way past that onto clearly treasonous grounds.

Treason, is still a capital offense, to remind people there is a cost to those sort of actions.

M.

Originally posted by Moshpet
I am gravely saddened that Manning did not get the death penalty for the totality of his actions.
Sure he may have done one part of it on moral grounds, but he went beyond that and committed treason. He needed to have received the same treatment as Benedict Arnold.

With an epitaph of,


Bradly Manning,
One moral action
did not absolve
him of his treason.

I hope all you people who think he's a hero are going to send him care packages so he can buy protection in prison. He'll need it.

M.

edit on 30-7-2013 by Moshpet because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-7-2013 by Moshpet because: (no reason given)

You are "Gravely Saddened" that Bradley Manning didn't get the death penalty? What age are you living in?

What he did was right and just. This is how our nation "was" great. Because people wielded the power when government got out of control.

Perhaps certain individuals in government should stop the scandals and there would be nothing to worry about in the first place.

We as the people need to prosecute and arrest the criminals that exist in certain elements of the government and especially commercial corporations.

If the people don't do anything, they will lose everything. We will have no laws, rights or freedom to do ANYTHING.

Bradley Manning IS the people, all you witnessed was the PEOPLE fighting back against practices of corruption.

If you are deeply saddened that this hero didn't get the death penalty, I'm deeply saddened for you!

reply to post by TinfoilTP


"I'll play that game too and go all the way, be an all out truther, and make him an Al Qaida soldier",,u mean he's undercover cia?
or white house,, plant?

now im confused.

reply to post by Moshpet


Come on man, so Manning exposing the military for killing innocent citizens and trying to cover it up is worth his life? The US military/govt. is guilty of so much worse but you dont seem to have a problem with that...

If he had problems with what was going on he should of pressed further within our government instead of letting the world know, do you think that helps our reputation?

Originally posted by Moshpet

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by Moshpet

 

Gravely saddened that someone wasn't put to death???

I would like to think that we've evolved from the days of Benedict Arnold, but I guess not......

Yes, I am saddened that the military tribunal didn't have the balls to execute him for his treasonous crimes. It will only lead to more people committing the same crimes as Manning, if not to a more dangerous extent; because he didn't get executed for it. He did one morally correct thing, then went way past that onto clearly treasonous grounds.

Treason, is still a capital offense, to remind people there is a cost to those sort of actions.

M.

You're gravely wrong if you think by not executing Bradley Manning will only lead to more leaks. If the government executed Bradley Manning there would be severe consequences by the people to the corporations and governments. They know it.

There would be MORE leaks, only in well crafted, thought out anonymity. This is the technological age my friend, by the government not executing Snowden or Manning shows me that the people still have leverage.

Originally posted by thesaneone
If he had problems with what was going on he should of pressed further within our government instead of letting the world know, do you think that helps our reputation?

You really think he would have gotten anywhere by doing that?

Our reputation is ruined regardless, because of military & Govt. officials who choose to do whatever the hell they want... Its not "by the people for the people", its more like "once elected, do whatever the hell i want".... If anything, having people like Manning and Snowden come out to expose them will help our image, cause maybe, just maybe, the US will stop will all their sneaky actions towards us citizens and the rest of the world.