The Language of Vampyr

a reply to: Direne

But Direne, if you don't pay your federal taxes to keep feeding the monstrosity, armed IRS agents will come to your door.

a reply to: fireslinger

taxes are unavoidable unless you are self-employed in the UK
but even then you will be hunted like a dog by her majestys revenue and customs

but totally cool if our a multi-billion pound corporate entity

there is very little you can actually do to not support the system
unless you take early retirement and own all of your property outright and live off grid

I recently got asked to do jury service so there is always one government body trying to get hold of you to do things for them.

No one will leave you alone , even if you wonder off into the woods to live away from society
people will try to drag you back because you are crazy to them and not allowed to be a hermit

a reply to: sapien82

Yea, honestly wu-wei is kind of laughable if you're a human living in the 21st century. It would only apply if you're a being outside of time / space. I do like the romanticism of it, but can verify that it gets you nowhere in this life.

But to your previous post, I struggle with the same thing. Desperately wanting to do something, to avoid the steady slip into totalitarianism, but not knowing what to do, so just minding my own, and basically being a 'yes man' to the world. I'm tired of being a yes man. I used to have a much more rebellious streak, until the world beat me down. It's still there though, a searing ember that I still don't have the courage to act on. What is 'right action', within a world in free-fall?

If you stop being a yes man, as you alluded to, people won't let you. It's almost like, everyone has to be miserable, and for the most part, people don't want to see you on the path to your own happiness.

but totally cool if our a multi-billion pound corporate entity

Haha, the irony. Corporations are the only technical 'persons' who aren't held accountable. Governments too. Oh what a mire.

a reply to: fireslinger

fireslinger, what you state is based on just two possibilities: to pay, or not pay. Yours is a binary language which excludes a third possibility: to non-pay. In your society, you either pay or don't pay your taxes. If you don't, you'll certainly be prosecuted and, in an extreme situation, even took to prison or directly killed. If everyone refused to pay your problem would be automatically solved, but this is never going to happen because that would require a coordinated action from all members of society that jointly decide to not pay taxes. You know very well your society is unable to agree on even the simplest questions like, for instance, protecting the environment.

But there is a third path: to non-pay. Assume you simply cannot pay your taxes because you have no money at all. Assume nobody has money at all. How would you pay your taxes even when you would like to? Worse: how would you refuse to pay at all? is an extremely dangerous situation for society, something that any self-respecting government should avoid. When poverty is fought, it is not because poverty is morally reprehensible or abominable. It is done to avoid a society of poor people who could not afford to pay. That is why you are given social benefits that, in reality, have the function of allowing you to continue paying taxes and buying things.

To non-pay is a totally different thing. This is the situation in which you adopt the wu-wei attitude: do nothing, not even receive social benefits. Actually, it is not even to do nothing. It is to non-do.

The wu-wei path is based on anti-language (defined as the no-language that serves to debase and dilute a social structure through no-conversation, just as an everyday language does; but the social structure is of a particular kind, in which certain elements are strongly foregrounded). Based on that anti-language you build your anti-philosophy. You don't learn to non-do. You don't force a society of non-doers. It simply happens, spontaneously, as a sudden and pronounced change in properties and behavior of a society.

Humans have a gift that they see as a curse: boredom, lack of interest. There will come a day when paying taxes, or doing this and that will be of no interest to them. It's not that they don't want to do it, or actively refuse to do it, or adopt a moral posture of resistance to doing certain things. It is simply that they will no longer feel the urge to do those things. A day when "doing" no longer gives them pleasure.

"Doing" is probably the biggest deception. "Non-doing" is what kills a system that can no longer coerce its members or threaten them for the simple reason that even if those members wanted to obey, they could not. You can't force a fern to sing rap. No matter how hard you try. No matter how much you threaten it or tempt it with emeralds, gems and rubies. You can't. A fern is not like a rich schmuck addicted to emeralds that you can wield like a puppet, nor is he a frightened, authority-fearing deadbeat.

A fern is a non-doer, the worst enemy you could meet if you are a banker or a capitalist, whether you dress up in red or blue. A fern society will be your nightmare.

No, you can't force a fern to sing rap.

a reply to: Direne

Reread this a few times, and here are some of my thoughts.

We unfortunately live in a schizophrenic system, that doesn’t know the difference between binary and trinary language. It’s pay or don’t pay, regardless of our individual feelings or intentions. The IRS won’t accept ‘I want to pay, but don’t have the money. Maybe next year, but I won’t have the money then either. But I still want to pay, so that counts, right?’ It’s red or blue, with independent either being marginalized, or wiped off the slate. Which extrapolates out to every facet of society, and I always had a problem with that.

I think the bigger problem is, why don’t we have the money? Well, speaking of the US, we’re trillions in debt, and it’s actually comical. Some kind of cosmic joke. Rather than trying to figure out why and fix it, we’re trying to default. Some of us know why, but it’s taboo to even approach the reasons, so here we are. Unaccounted for black budget projects, revolving around a truth that none of us are privy to, but that paradoxically we all have a stake in. Sending billions to anywhere but our own country, illegally fueling war efforts. Look at Maui as a recent example, of how much our country cares about us. This world revolves around the petro-dollar, but that’s rapidly changing, as the US is being dismantled with open borders, and a money sieve. All to be replaced by an equity based carbon model, which again revolves around the truth that none of us are privy to.

I’d argue that whatever we want to call the globalist forces deconstructing our world, they’re far more cowardly than the ‘frightened, authority-fearing deadbeat’ who is just trying to keep their head / ego down and support their family / friends. At least the ladder has some honor. It’s not worth trying to fight / re-integrate an enemy who refuses to show itself. If you do, everyone thinks you’re off the rocker, because you can barely begin to explain what you see. History has been revised so much, that it's not even worth trying to explain. When push comes to shove, they are afraid of us. But we don’t even know who they are, and that’s why we are where we are.

I do agree that it's all on us, and the main problem is us not being able to agree on anything. But it seems that one system is just transitioning into another, with so few of us knowing why, just going along for the totalitarian ride, with no concept of non-doing. I honestly doubt that there will ever be a tipping point. It will just be the crash of one system, replaced by a worse system, with nobody being able to organize enough, to create an independent system.

a reply to: fireslinger

The problem you raise is a problem that has to do with how a society is organized. In the animal kingdom there is no such problem because the way it is organized is fixed in advance in the genome itself. Bees are organized in a unique way; cats have a specific system, as do arthropods, birds, annelids and any other species. And these systems are scalable: no matter the size of colonies, herds, flocks. Their system does not change and is effective regardless of the number of individuals.

The same is not true for humans. A democracy, a dictatorship, a tyranny, a monarchy and any other type of organization you wish depends strongly on the number of individuals. It also depends on the homogeneity of the value system of these individuals, their cultural background, their way of understanding the world.

A democracy (whatever form it takes) does not work the same with a society of five thousand individuals as it does with a society of three hundred million people. If you look at it from the outside, humanity is a huge collection of diverse systems and modes of organization with sometimes conflicting values and ideals. An anthill, however, does not suffer from this problem: there is only one way to be an ant, while there are seemingly infinite ways to be human.

Organizing 8 billion people would only work if the system is homogeneous, global, equitable, fair and just. But even that would not be enough. Individuals would need to be identical to each other (as it happens in the rest of the animal kingdom where the differences between individuals are reduced to their size or to certain colors in their fur or body structures). To make matters worse, humans have some very curious characteristics that make them undeniably different from each other: language, beliefs. And, finally, humans build societies based on the exchange of tiny metal pieces that they call "money". A human being is a fiercely individualistic and selfish being who, curiously, is forced to live in a gregarious way, so that he is incapable of valuing the common good and the collective.

It is easy to understand that if we add to all this a scarcity of resources, drastic climatic changes and suffocating overpopulation, it is impossible to find an optimal system of government. A civilization fragmented at so many levels, including the personal level, will hardly be able to adapt quickly to external changes.

These are changes that will dramatically affect the environment and, therefore, biology. Profound changes that will disrupt the very meaning of what a human being is. Changes, in short, that are still the same as those faced by the last known intelligent species of hominids: the Neanderthals. And you know how that ended.

It's not about doing something. It's about stopping doing what destroys you.

Now this guy also believe we're in some kind of simulation.
twitter.com...

Non-do is just begging for a reset. Which I'm sure favors SV groups agenda.

While your suggestion is a direct insult to us non-doers, eg. Chinese GenZ culture "let it rot". Which is the refusal to work.

I don't know the future but it has not been pretty and doesn't have to be anymore ugly. Especially for me. You could be careless IDGAF.

Non-do is no joke. Unless you're begging to be a chilling skeleton.



I know SV are aiming for a NWO so I understand where you're coming from.

I believe sometimes I'm just talking to a brick wall.
Good luck with your future endeavors. I hope I don't get caught in your mess.


If you decode this then you are otherwise
-.. ..- -- -... .- ... ...

a reply to: Direne

So... Buddhism?

The issue I have is Buddha would never have considered nothingness if it wasn't for something to think about. I bet even he cried for a drink and a nappy change as a baby so I can fathom he realised just how engrained thought and communication is for a human.

He too was a product of desire and if the continuation of our species is going to rely on individual decisions on not continuing the race for one's self then I think it's safe to say we're doomed one way or another. Circular... like a dog chasing it's tail.

It all comes back to our dizziness and thoughts on motion. Maybe if we spin fast enough we'll take off and lose all attachments

a reply to: boozo

If you decode this then you are otherwise
-.. ..- -- -... .- ... ...

Lmao you got me 😂

a reply to: RAY1990

Yes, Buddhism. But only because I wanted to show how disunited you are. It would have been enough to name any other religion to set the forest on fire, but I preferred to be cautious and name a religion less known in the West.

My point is proven: you continue to hate the other, whoever he is, just because he is "the other". This elegantly explains Fermi's paradox. Who would want to contact someone who has hatred of the other written in their genome?

Observation: It would seem this 10yo thread has drifted from "Language of Vampyr" into a "Discourse with Direne"...

I'm new here, but have certainly enjoyed the discussion, especially Direne's insights... It just seems the current status of the thread has departed from the OP's intent? (maybe not?)

Suggestion: A Direne Thread - I believe this is certainly warranted & might help consolidate the conversation.

I would think most of ATS (except possibly Direne) would approve...

What say you Direne? ATS? Mods?

a reply to: Direne

This made a lot of connections for me, thank you for articulating it so well.

I do see what you're saying about SV17q's globalization methods. While many of us don't agree with the way it's being done, it's a big piece that's worth understanding. For me at least, understanding helps me navigate the surface world that we all have to navigate.

Stayed up late thinking about what you said before, of one environmental process against another, and connecting that with your latest reply. It's all making sense, how John Kerry said that climate change initiatives are 'almost extraterrestrial'.

You mentioned what sounds like a cataclysmic climate event, or series of events. That's what we're globalizing for, to face those series of events? Pole shift, and all the rest. I'm wondering if you can comment on this FL post about the Flynn Effect. It's a bit hard to follow. Intelligence scores going upwards due to environmental complexity, which is globalization. But how does the Negative Flynn Effect tie into it? Was there a period of diminishing IQ, and then climate change picked up again, causing an increase in IQ?

It does make sense, but I'm wondering what's behind the climate change. Sure, natural cycles that the planet goes through, but is there a superintelligence creating those cycles? Then there's the geoengineering agenda, trying to counter the current cycle? And the cybernetics (globalization), to prepare us for the climate changes. Some more clarity on that interplay would help with our understanding.

forgottenlanguages-full.forgottenlanguages.org...

a reply to: Caecus

I think one of the reasons we like the title 'The Language of Vampyr' is how obscure / hidden it is. There's info here that you can't find elsewhere on the internet.

a reply to: Caecus

I know you are goodhearted, and that your proposal is based on good feelings. But if you do so you will automatically turn me into the other.

You must understand that not everyone understands what it means to exchange ideas, to hear different ideas, or to explain theirs without imposing them. The use of nicknames favors an anonymity that already denotes distrust. A communication based on distrust is unlikely to succeed. I think I prefer to continue exchanging ideas sporadically.

a reply to: Caecus

you know I think we are pretty much alone in this thread
we havent had much admin input as we have all been pretty civil with each other
and we are pretty much free to discuss FL group with Direne's direct input as their spokesperson as it were.

the original post was directly about FL group and Cassini Diskus
and the thread has certainly drifted but the drift is entirely related to the discussions in FL group
we tend to go through FL posts one by one and each adds their input and thoughts on the subject
and we try to reconcile how that fits into the greater picture of humanity, and the universe.

We all like to theorise about what it means and no one ever really complains about each other drifting
as it's all related in some way, there are connections among it all.

I have no objections to you starting a Direne specific thread but I reckon it wouldn't go much further than a few pages
and sit idle for years and then be necromanced

I feel like this thread is a separate entity from the rest of ATS for some reason
as we don't get the normal crowd from other threads in here just rambling about stuff
there are however the usual suspects in this thread and we have all come to know a little more about each other
and dare to say a little more friendly despite each of us having our own opinions on certain aspects of FL

and you are more than welcome to bring up past subjects if you feel they warrant more discussion.
I for one am happy to go over the previous ground as the devil is in the details

a reply to: fireslinger

The link between climate change and how it affects human evolution is very well explained here:

How Did Climate Change Affect Ancient Humans?

In essence, the need to survive in variable environments would favor humans with genetic changes that made them more adaptable and better able to survive in a wide range of conditions, which implies an increase in intelligence. This mechanism is cyclic, according to the so-called Millankovitch cycles.

Only lately did researchers found the reverse effect: cycles in which the intelligence diminishes or, more exactly, periods in which stupidity increases. What is not clear is why other species do not seem to be affected. Cockroaches still behave exactly the same as they did millions of years ago, evolutionarily speaking.

a reply to: Direne

Understood & Agreed.
Apologies for inconsideration of my suggestion... and thanks for your response.

As a 'newb' I think I might have become overzealous in my intrigue regarding your posts.

I have (as I'm sure many others do) many questions would like to ask you, but this 'open/public' thread is probably not best place. ...too bad we can't have a chat over a coffee table...

Anyhow, thanks again for your time here & your polite candor. ...I will ruminate on a more effective line of questioning/conversation for you.

~Best Regards

a reply to: Direne

We're as easily united as we are divided I'd imagine, those wants and desires can make simpletons of the best of us which isn't always a bad thing.

I'd like to claim I understand what the Buddha meant and if all communication boils down to competition or conflict I too would become disheartened with the lack of choice, I'd choose not to bother too.

My point is proven: you continue to hate the other, whoever he is, just because he is "the other". This elegantly explains Fermi's paradox. Who would want to contact someone who has hatred of the other written in their genome?

We learn to hate, we develop it. We can also learn to love. If the objective of an alien species is to communicate with a non-emotional species then they've picked the wrong one. They never intended to communicate with us which in my mind would put a lot of history in question.

a reply to: Caecus

Caecus, we can communicate through this channel. In case you prefer to use email, you can always try our email that appears on FL page and your email will be forwarded to me. Mind, one-line emails are automatically sent to spam. Be correct and honest, otherwise the AI-based spam system will delete your email.

a reply to: RAY1990

Point taken.

We learn to hate, we develop it

I really wish that to be the case, I mean, that you are not genetically programmed to hate, rather you acquire that trait. If that's the case then there are solutions: you can unlearn. My view is hating is part of the human being as predator and prey, that is to say, it is an indissoluble part of its genome. Some argue that hating must have some evolutionary advantage, although it is not clear which one.

However, communication with non-terrestrial exotic intelligent systems requires setting aside emotions. That is why the best option for a first contact is between machines (between AIs), and that it takes place in outer space (outside the Kuiper belt), in a neutral zone.

It is said that in this area the objects awaiting contact are already waiting for the encounter. Others say that these objects are only asteroids, although they can not yet be sure because, to their surprise, they also form a belt of which they had no news. Be that as it may, contact between two planetary civilizations is a delicate matter. It must be treated as a childbirth. We must be careful and minimize emotions.