PrismGate -- Something Obama COULD get impeached for.

Well the GOP must be celebrating.

A program which some people thought was the work of science fiction or the mad ramblings of conspiracy theorists.

Not only have we had news of an unprecedented spying program, but now news is breaking that using some of these programs, or entirely different ones, the WH has been strong arming the judicial parts of the US system to get it's political notches.

Out of all the things that could have gotten Obama impeached or at the very least loose an election in the house to more GOP contenders, this will probably take the cake.

I think the next few months are going to be extremely interesting. This may be the big thing that changes everything in US politics and domestic/foreign policy. Sure, I'm inflating it a bit, but a scandal of this scope only happens so often.

What are you thoughts ATS?

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


you are making a good point but i have to disagree

my understanding is that PRISM while morally wrong does have legal backing

even if we can argue successfully that it was both legally and morally wrong that does not mean that Obama would be impeached.

programs like PRISM have been about for years and they have been exposed in the past, such as ECHELON and no president got impeached.

Undoubtedly someone needs to be held accountable for what has happened but the truth is that that programs like PRISM have been going on for decades.

If Obama was having a year like this last year you could bet that he would never have got into elected again

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

even if we can argue successfully that it was both legally and morally wrong that does not mean that Obama would be impeached.

Technically correct of course.
But,
If Obama was using data from PRISM to blackmail the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS....He should be impeached.
Doesn't mean it would happen, but it should.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


It's more the fact that he's using those programs for political gain as opposed to National Security though.

Like the Justice Roberts story, which right now granted is still just a rumor, has some serious implications of how the executive branch is meddling in judicial affairs.

I have a funny feeling there will be all kinds of other revelations about the use of this technology and these programs for things completely unrelated to National Security. One Whistle Blower with something like this will lead to about a half dozen more I'm sure.

It also poses a potential program for elections, considering a lot of the companies involved like Google or Microsoft are going to have to explain themselves soon enough. Their money may not be where it once was if the political landscape turns on Obama.

~Tenth

I honestly hope that obama is not impeached, as much as he deserves it.

We need an outside of the system solution, and this is not one. Its simply taking power away from one traitor and gives it to another.

Not to mention that it is could be a very slippery slope...

Obama will never be impeached for anything there are a multitude of things that could 'end his presidency' fact remains as far as the 'majority' thinks he walks on water, and does nothing make excuses for him.

'To be perfectly clear' Obama will never be impeached, he should be, but he won't.wait for the 'well the last guy did it so that means Obama can do whatever he wants'.

Last guy never campaigned on 'transparency' or presided over the largest spying on the American citizen.

The current guy did.

Case in point:



Lying in an impeachable offense clearly he lied.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Like the Justice Roberts story, which right now granted is still just a rumor, has some serious implications of how the executive branch is meddling in judicial affairs.

One has to wonder if the Legislative branch wasn't being blackmailed also.

That would explain Peter King and Boehner coming out in support of PRISM.

Ultimately it is public opinion and sway - or lack thereof...

That will decide Mr. Pres. Obama's fate. Considering the other scandals that have been falling like domino's around this Congress - and the shrug from the American people - I'm disillusioned.

I'm very sad with my fellow friends and family when I try to bring it up...
No outrage, and in some cases no knowledge. And all I can say is I've a seriously growing disappointment in US.

Cirque

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Again i do agree with you only with a "but"

the thing is right now actually proving that he has used PRISM for political gain has not been proven (not that I doubt that he has done this)

Interestingly there was a case in 2003 in the run up to the Iraq war a GCHQ employee named Katharine Gunn leaked a email that the NSA and GCHQ were spying on the UN officials to gain influence on them making a decision about providing the legal backing for the Iraq war.

nothing was done about that.

I agree with you that PRISM is wrong but i don't think that its going to lead to Obama's impeachment based on the information that has been leaked so far.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

the thing is right now actually proving that he has used PRISM for political gain has not been proven (not that I doubt that he has done this)

Yeah its been proven by multiple scandals, and this:

If you voted this election season, President Obama almost certainly has a file on you. His vast campaign database includes information on voters’ magazine subscriptions, car registrations, housing values and hunting licenses, along with scores estimating how likely they were to cast ballots for his reelection.

articles.washingtonpost.com...

Government, and it's agencies are his personal play things.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Well the GOP must be celebrating.

A program which some people thought was the work of science fiction or the mad ramblings of conspiracy theorists.

Not only have we had news of an unprecedented spying program, but now news is breaking that using some of these programs, or entirely different ones, the WH has been strong arming the judicial parts of the US system to get it's political notches.

Out of all the things that could have gotten Obama impeached or at the very least loose an election in the house to more GOP contenders, this will probably take the cake.

I think the next few months are going to be extremely interesting. This may be the big thing that changes everything in US politics and domestic/foreign policy. Sure, I'm inflating it a bit, but a scandal of this scope only happens so often.

What are you thoughts ATS?

~Tenth

edit on 6/13/2013 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

Really? Rather than be outraged at the unimaginable over reach of government surveillance your response is the GOP must be celebrating? Are we supposed to take this post seriously?

reply to post by jjkenobi


He has a point about current events will play on the mid terms coming up if the GOP can capitalize off it or blow it which sets up the next ball game the 2016 election.

GOP opposites celebrated the failures of his predecessor it is politics after all that rarely if ever has anything to do with 'doing the right thing'.

One reason nothing much will come of this: Everyone's banging on about PRISM. You're all missing the real story here, which is that AT&T and Verizon are tapped, and that 121 million telecommunications records were handed over to the FBI through a single court order. The potential scale and implications of this are far bigger than anything directly related to PRISM.

Edited to add: Another reason is both Democrat and Republican senators were responsible, so they're understandably eager to distract us from the Verizon thing.

reply to post by jjkenobi


Do you think the GOP would get excited about anything else?

They don't care about your privacy, let's remember they were in power when the Patriotic Act and the other spying acts were put into place.

This is just political football to them. Something to hold over their heads come November.

Forgive me for taking a different angle on a subject that's popular. Please contribute something meaningful to the thread on your next post.



~Tenth

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I hear ya. But these spy programs are tat-mount to putting a magical marker in a child's hand while they are sitting in front of a nice new white wall and walking away. The issue is in what it's being used for. If you or me suddenly become a "target of suspicion" then they will have a treasure trove to look through, going back further than who knows how long. And they can shift through the same information of not only you but those you associate with. And if they happen to run across evidence that can implicate you in any fashion, then it's great detective work! PRISM is being used to collect evidence to put the screws on people.

And let's be realistic, terrorists already know about pitfalls of using electronic communication. It still failed to stop the Boston bombing. So what exactly are they looking for with this program or are they using it to data mine the electronic web (all devices and services that can connect to the internet) ?

Hell, they can troll you if you get a phone call from a suspicious part of the world. Using PRISM combined with backdoors they were given from corporations, hell there is nothing they won't know about you unless you don't use recent technology.

And if you think that is bad (puts on tin foil hat) there is logic in CPUs that no one knows about. That scares me, but oh well, We go hard

reply to post by tothetenthpower


If it is proven that the President or anyone else deliberately used the Prism system to spy on political opponents there is an immediate requirement for impeachment. That not only breaches US law, I'm sure it also breaches international law and could render the USA a dictatorship in all but name.

The UN would be forced to make a statement on the credibility of the US leadership.

I personally believe that this is one of the stories yet to be broken. I also think it's going to be revealed that the US was spying on Merkell and that some were potentially using that information to make very lucrative business decisions.

Remember the flight of billions from the Greek economy right before the measures were put in place to close all the banks? I wonder... if you had Prism at your fingertips and could listen in to all the calls between the Greek leadership and the German Chancellor, wouldn't you be tempted to try to save your money?

Even if Obama's WH did use PRISM for political gain, I don't think they'll ever trace it back to Obama. I'd bet there are no memos, emails, or anything other than private conversations on the subject. Best case is that someone close to him flips on him, but that is highly unlikely. You might see people falling on swords or getting thrown under the bus (resignations, reassignments, etc) but no Biden in the top seat.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Well the GOP must be celebrating.

A program which some people thought was the work of science fiction or the mad ramblings of conspiracy theorists.

Which people?

What are you thoughts ATS?

PRISM was introduced by George Bush in 2007. It is entirely legal and I see no reason why Obama should be impeached for it.

This is potentially actionable:

news is breaking that using some of these programs, or entirely different ones, the WH has been strong arming the judicial parts of the US system to get it's political notches.

However, it needs to be proved. You refer to it as breaking news; but where is it breaking and where is the evidence?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


PrismGate -- Something Obama COULD get impeached for.,

Right after the near entirety of GOP in Congress who were briefed on the program and have been defending it vehemently.

How bad does the GOP want Obama impeached? Enough to sacrifice thier senior members and leaders along with him?

All of that assuming that there is "there" there...we still don't know a lot.

PRISM was introduced by George Bush in 2007. It is entirely legal and I see no reason why Obama should be impeached for it.

Called that one:

'To be perfectly clear' Obama will never be impeached, he should be, but he won't.wait for the 'well the last guy did it so that means Obama can do whatever he wants'.

'Created' the last year of his presidency that was EXPANDED under the current presidency among other well known intrusions.