Police respond to 'serious incident' in Woolwich

reply to post by blupblup




From the video.

'‘One obvious point, it is completely wrong to blame this killing on Islam but also wrong to draw a link between this murder and British foreign policy,’

Here you go.

Though given where his family comes from this doesn't surprise me.

reply to post by FreedomEntered


That's all they have confirmed for now the attackers are still in hospital under guard. But their parents are still Christians and it has been said that they are horrified and shocked by what they have done. But yes they are believed to be extremists. There is a video of one of the men with bloodied hands and a meat cleaver and a knife in his hand saying 'You will never be safe' among other things but I don't want to quote it in case I quote something wrong but I remember that phrase.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
So, the message is clear.... Pull the Troops out of Foriegn Lands!

Havn't many of us been saying this for years??

It is the Government who aren't listening.

The problem though would be a build up of Radicals in these Countries if we pulled our Troops out. Just should never have gone to their Lands in the first place.

edit on 23-5-2013 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

You'd also have 30,000 young troops out of work and onto benefits. Pulling them out doesn't suit the Uk government one bit.

reply to post by khimbar





Yeah but what about the video?


He's acknowledging the Islamic stuff and what the murderers said about our troops.... but Boris is saying all of that is irrelevant and only mattered in the minds of the sick men who murdered the man.


That is not every news channel saying this isn't to do with religion.

It's not even Boris saying that.

He's trying to calm things by saying "let's not start blaming all Muslims" and "let's not blame our troops who murder people abroad in foreign lands"


He is basically saying "Everything that guy said on camera, with his bloody hands, Is nonsense"

That is all.

Typical politician.

Pay him no mind

There's a big difference between what these worthless dogs do and what our millitary forces do.

We bomb places from the air, we use tanks and soldiers and innocent people die as a result, i will admit that.

But we don't specifically target innocents, they just get in the way or are used as shields (I'm pretty sure we don't use hospitals or schools to store weapons or conduct operations from) by the ones we want to get.

They on the other hand, come into our countries and cities and deliberately pick innocent victims, instead of fighting like men, face to face with the ones fighting them.

They say they are mighty and unstoppable..lol If they were, they wouldn't have to target women and children would they.

Last time I checked, Shopping malls, airports and busy london streets were not millitary installations, where they would find their real enemies..heh

reply to post by khimbar


It is wrong to blame this killing on Islam? That is a somewhat nonsensical statement, and here's why.

Clearly, this man had reasons for what he did that jibe with what we've heard manifold times before: "get out of our land" - "stop killing our people". This is the standard radical fundamentalist rationale when they commit terror attacks.

Now, since the UK has forces in Afghanistan, this man was likely referring to these forces. But since there are no black afghanis, this man was obviously speaking not from the perspective of nationality, but from the perspective of Islam. In traditional Islamic parlance, Muslims are part of a great "umma" - community - which separates the believers from the rest of mankind, the non-believers
. Thus, a Nigerian Muslim could feel the angst of a foreign, non-Muslim presence in a Muslim Central Asian country as if it were his own.

The only plausible rationale for this behavior is religious. Is this fundamentalism indicative of mainstream Islam? No, it wouldn't be fair to say that. At the same time, could we go to the opposite extreme and say this has nothing to do with Islam? Obviously, we can't, since these sorts of attacks happen all the time, worldwide. Islam has developed a unique reputation for being able to produce fundamentalists at a rate unknown to other religions. Fundamentalist Islam is a phenomenon of Islam.

Update :

Mr Collings said Abeboloja, a British citizen of Nigerian descent, had never shown signs of the violence which was to come during his five years at school.

"He was a clever guy, and had lots of friends," he said. "He wasn't the loudest of characters but he wasn't quiet either."

"If anything he saw himself as a bit of a gangster wannabe."

www.heraldsun.com.au...

Originally posted by khimbar
reply to post by blupblup

 

Here you go.

Though given where his family comes from this doesn't surprise me.

edit on 23-5-2013 by khimbar because: (no reason given)

Going by the logic of a few people in this thread - I'm surprised nobody is saying, "He's not British, He's American!!"

reply to post by Ironclad


It bears mentioning that the "guide" for their moral actions is a school of Fiqh which sees all non-Muslims as part and parcel of any "occupationist" activity.

For example. Hamas terrorists kills Israeli civilians all the time. Rational people wonder, why are you punishing non-combatants for? But to a Muslim who follows this school of jurisprudential thought, all Israelis are "potential" enemies, inasmuch as they are non-believers, support the state which is carrying out attacks against Islamic targets.

The exact same rational is routinely applied to any westerner whose country happens to be active in a Muslim country.

As for Afghanistan. Let's put aside the idiocy of cultural relativism, as if the Taliban system were in someway morally "equivalent" to our civilization. You have to be mentally ill to not see how morally superior we are. Chopping off a woman's nose and ears, hands and feet, for the most petty sounding crimes imaginable, does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with the words moral, ethical, scrupulous, etc. These people - the Taliban - are utter barbarians.

It just so happens that following 9/11, it was determined that Afghanistan provided asylum for Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda network. Of all the troublesome Islamist organizations, in the overall troublesome greater middle east, no country was as complicit as Afghanistan. The only moral response to this situation was to go in there, and get rid of these people.

Now, unfortunately, innocent people all the time die in air attacks. But it should be mentioned that these collateral damage casualties has dropped significantly since the advent of the more precise Drone attacks.

I don't want to exaggerate the significance of radical Islam of the type of Al Qaeda. They're barely relevant anymore. At the same time, the pressure should be kept up on them, to make sure they don't replenish themselves.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


The guy on the video, the Nigerian origin guy that converted from Christianity, was known for handing out radical leaflets in Woolwich, such actions would place them on the radar, they were deemed to be considered not a significant threat for further action, until yesterday obviously.

London probably has many thousands on the potential extremist radar considered not a significant threat, if they were all being closely monitored, it would take at least quadruple the special services manpower, that isn't feasible given current levels.

All areas of monitoring require ramping up and, ironically budgets are partly to blame, and we all know where the previous government spent the money, and are still spending it on keeping such 'refugees', ''safe'', time to unsafe them and give back safety to those that aspire to uphold our ethics.

Originally posted by blupblup
[ but Boris is saying all of that is irrelevant and only mattered in the minds of the sick men who murdered the man.

I agree with Boris. The references to Islam are a deceptive distraction to create religious animosity, when by murdering this man in non-self defense they were violating Islam. Soldiers do not create military or political policy. Islamic nations have cooperated with the peaceful world in tracking down zealots not wearing military uniforms engaged in murder.

reply to post by Miracula


What you fail to grasp is that religious animosity isnt created its been and existed for quite a long time now.

If you dont know this then you are rather " naive" and uninformed.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


Yep, I noted two things in his video where he said that " he hates that they kill his muslims back home" ..

One that he was addressing muslims themselves, that is the extremist element.

And two that he was trying to alert " ordinary " folk.

Originally posted by Ironclad
There's a big difference between what these worthless dogs do and what our millitary forces do.

We bomb places from the air, we use tanks and soldiers and innocent people die as a result, i will admit that.

Well that's a start at least.

But we don't specifically target innocents, they just get in the way or are used as shields (I'm pretty sure we don't use hospitals or schools to store weapons or conduct operations from) by the ones we want to get.

One step forward, two steps back. They just get in the way? It is this nonchalance that drives others to madness, and from that, extreme behavior is a direct result and almost inevitable.

They on the other hand, come into our countries and cities and deliberately pick innocent victims, instead of fighting like men, face to face with the ones fighting them.

Like these two men did? Their victim was a soldier, a combatant, and to some, the enemy. We go into their countries on the pretext of lies and sell off anything of value that their people possess. But only after decimating their infrastructure so we can sell then construction contracts and murdering thousands of their civilians who just got in the way apparently.

They say they are mighty and unstoppable..lol If they were, they wouldn't have to target women and children would they.

If the shoe fits...

Last time I checked, Shopping malls, airports and busy london streets were not millitary installations, where they would find their real enemies.

Last time I checked wedding parties and open air markets were not military targets, but we see fit to bomb those.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

reply to post by Miracula

The references to Islam are a deceptive distraction to create religious animosity, when by murdering this man in non-self defense they were violating Islam

Maybe you should learn something about Islam before you presume to know what the methodology for Quranic interpretation is.

I'll break it down into snippets.

- Islam is NOT a monolithic religion. The only constant is the Quran
- There are two main branches of Islam, Sunni (85%) and Shia (15%)
- Of the former, there are 4 branches of jurisprudence. Jurisprudence means a type of interpretation as a way to formulate law. Each school has there own first premises.

With this in mind, lets read over what you said: "murdering this man in non-self defense they were violating Islam". This is false, because there isn't "one Islam" which speaks for all Muslims. Secondly, not all schools define self defense in the same way. To some, self defense is a plastic term that can be extended to non-combatants who support an immediate threat. Therefore -> my paying taxes -> which supports the government -> which supports the military activities in a Muslim country. Through backtracking, causally speaking, the only "innocents" are people outside this loop of causality.

youtube




Watch the video you will notice after he apologises for the women who had to witness this and for the public to get rid of their gov't, this women fully crosses the street.

The second photo which is a still frame from the video clearly shows the photographer continuously filming while the suspect is explaining his actions yet is left out of the news feed.

dailymail

And I have had enough of racist bigots who know not of what they speak. But yet they speak loudest.

reply to post by OneManArmy


Islam is not a race, Einstein. It's an ideaology that is at conflict with western culture and ideaology.
2nd line.

reply to post by whatzshaken


that woman is a sick nasty piece of work.
she could not give a stuff that somone had just been brutally murdered by this man. it was same as same as for her - obviously,

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by Silcone Synapse

 

Are you serious?

The UK is much safer than crazy America. I'd rather live permanently in the UK than in the US. It is a statistical fact that the more guns that are available, the more gun-related incidents there will be. We'd have more attacks, more suicides, more murders.

Personally, I've never felt the need to carry a deadly weapon. Legalizing guns in the UK would only lead to a mini-arms race. I've escaped a couple of knife-point robberies without the use of a gun, thank you very much - we don't want to turn into Wild West "Merica.

I lived in the UK for 32 years of my life and the last 6 in the USA. I can tell you from my perspective that the UK is not a safer place than the US, by any means. When I go back to the UK to visit, it gets crazier every time. The kids are out of control. You can't go to a pub without watching your back. I just don't feel safe anymore in the UK. People talk about Americans having guns. I'm yet to see a gun that isn't holstered to a cop here. I've met some amazing people here and my UK family and friends seem to think it's a mental place. That's what the beeb would have them believe. I mean no disrespect to you, just my 2 penneth.

Peace

I dont think this was al qaida I think this was just a few men getting togeather wanting to prove a point.