Outgoing IRS Chief: Taxes Voluntary

reply to post by MrPlow


So basically as long as I don't pay somebody with a Federal Reserve Note, I don't have to pay taxes?

If its voluntary then why do people accrue fines and/or go to prison for failing to pay? Either it is voluntary and you face no penalties or its mandatory and you do face penalties. It can't be a litte of both because that is doublespeak hypocrisy. Either one or the other.

BTW I think the tax code system is an evil joke upon the citizens. It is not setup correctly for many reasons. 1)The system should encourage up to 2 dependants and then start punishing people rather than rewarding them. It is best to discourage people from wanting to have too many kids. 2)the progressive scale starts too low in the payscale and gets too steep too fast. The payscale needs to be more realistic by being more spread-out to cover millionares and billionares.

Then we have a lying government that loves to wage war based usually on false flags. We also allow the federal reserve to stimulate the economy as it see's fit without the governments approval, much less the average citizens approval.

I want people to talk more about the corporate bailouts and wars and less about racial profiling of citizens.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by MrPlow

 

So basically as long as I don't pay somebody with a Federal Reserve Note, I don't have to pay taxes?

You can't pay someone with USA dollars or you would be arrested for distribution of fake currency if you try to pass them of as such. The federal reserve stockholders have exclusive issuing rights of the USA dollar!

I guess you can barter or start up your own currency, but the problem with starting up your own currency is that you will lack goodwill and people would naively call you a counterfeiter and summon the police.

Originally posted by MrPlow

3) You volunteer to pay those taxes once you decide to participate as a contributing member of society. (i.e. - getting a job, investments, buying a piece of land, etc)

sure, sure...everyone can do it.

there is no end to the hypocrisy.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

I guess you can barter or start up your own currency, but the problem with starting up your own currency is that you will lack goodwill and people would naively call you a counterfeiter and summon the police.

Naïve is not exactly the word I'd use but you're right, they would do so. Bamboozled is probably the nicest way to put it, but when pushed far enough I do have a few other adjectives that are more satisfying to the soul.

Meanwhile there's always a chance BRICS will come through with a better banking system. Its pretty sad that we have to rely on foreigners to bail us out of our own mess, but after all, it was foreign bankers who got us into the mess in the first place. One thing's sure, WE will never get ourselves out of it.

reply to post by frazzle


I don't think we were ever meant to get ourselves out of it. People never took politics seriously enough and today is no exception. I am not saying parties should sling mud at each other, I am saying participating in honest debates and providing real solutions.

I am pretty sure its a masonry problem that traces back to the knight templars and the holy crusades. Todays masons are the continuation of the prinicples of the knight templars and they have established themselves in switzerland. The Bank of Internatinal Settlements is waiting for all the major currencies to collapse so they can usher in a global digital currency, at least that is what I have read.



Its bush's fault!!!!! Or maybe Obozo's fault

The entire US government should be in jail, they owe trillians, yet they lock up hard working people for minor amounts.

All governments are scamming the people, but nobody does anything about it.

If anyone really believes that countries like Syria have a real uprising then you have been suckered by the media.

America is a country that should have an uprising right now dues to all the problems, and America is well placed to have one because you have guns, and you could easily crush the government, but nobody will ever do anything, just moan about it.

Syria etc, are even less likely to do something, hence why what has gone on in these countries are not real uprisings, just staged to look like one. If American citizens wont even help themselves and overturn their government, do you believe other small countries would even consider it?!

Outgoing IRS Chief: Taxes Voluntary

Wesley Snipes felt that way and look where he ended up.

reply to post by NONPOINT21


I have worked in the tax field for 25 years. The confusion regarding the word voluntarily compliance system amazes me. It has led to all sorts of claims that individuals do not have to pay taxes, file tax returns etc. There is a constitutional amendment, the 16th, ratified in February of 1913 that gives the U.S. the right to tax its citizens. The Supreme Court has upheld this on numerous occasions through all sorts of clever arguments that it should not apply.

A voluntary compliance system refers to the fact that the government is requesting its citizens to volunteer information on the tax returns filed by its citizens that are signed under penalty of perjury. In no way is the payment or filing voluntary from the perspective that it is not required. An involuntary system is where every single transaction is taxed at the source at a gross rate of tax and there is not a mechanism for claiming a refund of overpaid taxes. That is all that is being referred to. No one should make it out to be more than that.

The arguments of taxation should start with spending. To pay less taxes, the government needs to spend less first. The system of taxation is a funding mechanism. Sure it is complex. But, only because every time someone figures out how to cheat, a stop gap is required. The stop gaps have grown. If we go to an involuntary transaction system, the so called flat tax or fair tax, which everyone thinks is so great. Taxes will be higher. Trust me. Look no further than Europe's VAT system, which is the fair tax and how much is collected...

Originally posted by dougie6665
I have worked in the tax field for 25 years.

Let's start with the easy stuff, shall we? Here is the 16th Amendment:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

First, show us exactly where to find the IRS definition of the word 'income' in Title 26. And you should be able to show us where in Title 26 it says that a man who exchanges his labor for wages is earning an 'income'. And thirdly, you should show us where in Title 26 it makes this theoretical man 'liable' to pay a tax on the fruits of his labor.

Last item is a bonus : Where in Title 26 is the list the 'sources' of "incomes, from whatever source derived"?

Ultimate Bonus Question : What is the definition of 'whatever'?

reply to post by dougie6665

A voluntary compliance system refers to the fact that the government is requesting its citizens to volunteer information on the tax returns filed by its citizens that are signed under penalty of perjury.

Uh no, it is demanding that citizens volunteer personal information, as if the 4th amendment doesn't exist.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Of course the government doesn't think anything they might dream up could be defined as "unreasonable". They always have "reasons", it just never has anything to do with the rights of the people to be secure from the predations of government.

Congressman (George) Hansen was one of the first members of Congress to point a finger at the IRS. In the late 70s he wrote a book called "To Harass Our People". He was the first to get a full scale investigation into the crimes of the IRS against the American people. His outrage over what he discovered caused him to write and help pass the "Taxpayers Bill of Rights." Without George Hansen, the IRS would be the American equal to the Gestapo by now.

www.constitution.org...

Well, it turns out he was maybe just a little bit before his time and he paid the price for it.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

Originally posted by dougie6665
I have worked in the tax field for 25 years.

Let's start with the easy stuff, shall we? Here is the 16th Amendment:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

First, show us exactly where to find the IRS definition of the word 'income' in Title 26. And you should be able to show us where in Title 26 it says that a man who exchanges his labor for wages is earning an 'income'. And thirdly, you should show us where in Title 26 it makes this theoretical man 'liable' to pay a tax on the fruits of his labor.

Last item is a bonus : Where in Title 26 is the list the 'sources' of "incomes, from whatever source derived"?

Ultimate Bonus Question : What is the definition of 'whatever'?

I guess we could ask Edward and Elaine Brown what the IRS thinks of those kind of questions.

en.wikipedia.org...

Well, we could ask if we knew where the IRS and their cronies in the injustice system stashed them.

Originally posted by frazzle
I guess we could ask Edward and Elaine Brown what the IRS thinks of those kind of questions.

en.wikipedia.org...

Well, we could ask if we knew where the IRS and their cronies in the injustice system stashed them.

what about Vernice Kuglin?




google vernice kuglin

Woman Beats IRS in Court Over Income Tax Protest
Published August 13, 2003

www.foxnews.com...

Good to meet you frazzle. There is a lot of ignorance in this thread. You are doing a good job.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

Originally posted by frazzle
I guess we could ask Edward and Elaine Brown what the IRS thinks of those kind of questions.

en.wikipedia.org...

Well, we could ask if we knew where the IRS and their cronies in the injustice system stashed them.

what about Vernice Kuglin?

google vernice kuglin

Woman Beats IRS in Court Over Income Tax Protest
Published August 13, 2003

www.foxnews.com...


Good to meet you frazzle. There is a lot of ignorance in this thread. You are doing a good job.

Ahhh, good for her, she had Larry Becraft on her team!

Tom Cryer is another one.

www.livefreenow.org...

Good to meet you, too, SJ. There just can't be enough of us in this corner of the ring.

Originally posted by frazzle
Tom Cryer is another one.

www.livefreenow.org...

Good to meet you, too, SJ. There just can't be enough of us in this corner of the ring.

1. Vernice Kuglin not guilty in August 12, 2003 reported in the NYT, Business Day section, Page C-3.

2. Banister’s victory was reported in the July 11, 2005 issue of the American Free Press.

3. ( I did not know about this one) Tom Cryer July 11, 2007, according to press release Press Release
Shreveport, Louisiana , July 11, 2007, Louisiana, By: Peymon, President of Freedom Law School.

With 3 big cases like these it becomes harder for the IRS to stay legit. I remember the day in 2003 when I was going on a coffee break and reading the NYT in the cafe. When I saw that David Cay Johnston article ... I BOUGHT ALL THE COPIES THEY HAD. It was only 3 copies Here is a link and some of the article:
www.nytimes.com...

A federal jury in Memphis has acquitted a Federal Express pilot on six counts of tax evasion after she testified that she wrote letters asking the Internal Revenue Service what law required her to pay taxes but never received a response.

The verdict, reached on Friday, brings into question the I.R.S. practice of ignoring such questions, which it regards as frivolous because the first words of the Internal Revenue Code are "a tax is hereby imposed."

The pilot, Vernice Kuglin, 58, filed a withholding statement on Dec. 30, 1995, directing that no taxes be withheld from her pay. From 1996 through 2001 she earned $920,000 as a pilot for Federal Express, but no taxes were withheld, she said yesterday. Normal withholding for the period would have been about $250,000.

Quoting the article "The whole thing could have been resolved if the government had simply answered her questions," Mr. Becraft said. "It didn't happen. I made an argument to the jury that an American has a right to ask the government for answers. A lot of people in the tax movement do not hide, they are in the face of the I.R.S. and they write letters that set forth their position. And while a lot of them are not articulate ro well grounded in legal positions, they have some things they want answered" about their tax liability. But their questions are usually ignored, he said.

Mr. Becraft said during an hour he spent with jurors after the verdict their most focused comments were about the absence of a response from the I.R.S. to Ms. Kuglin's letters.

Still the same article "Ms. Kuglin said yesterday, "I believe the 16th Amendment is constitutional and the Internal Revenue Service is constitutional, but I also feel there is a gross misapplication of the individual income tax laws by the I.R.S."

"The questions I have asked are what section of the Internal Revenue Code makes me liable for the individual income tax and what law requires me to fill out the Form 1040" tax return, she said.

I studied a lot in the late 1999-2003 time frame when I made my start hacking the IRS Code. The key is to be discreet, very discreet, about how you approach the IRS tax forms. These were my rules.

Most people wouldn't believe this, but, you are allowed to set your withholdings on the fly. You can change a single with 1 exemption to single and 7. Many people will do this in the cases where they have a lack of cash flow temporarily and need to keep a few more bucks of their paycheck.

When the cashflow problem is over, they would set it back down to normal. Right? Or they could forget to change it back. And one year later they could.... I'm not suggesting that anybody do this.... forget to file a 1040.

Some rules for hacking the Code. I Rot 13'd it so that it can't be gathered by a search bot. I found it on the internet years ago. Made a few updates but it's a good strategy.

1. Qba'g rire yvr ba n gnk sbez.
2. Qba'g jevgr cebgrfgf ba lbhe gnk sbezf.
3. Pbzcbfr n 1 cntr yrggre "Gb Jubz Vg Znl Pbaprea" pbafvfgvat bs lbhe zbfg vzcbegnag dhrfgvbaf (yvnovyvgl gb cnl, rgp) naq xrrc vg gb 1 cntr. Znvy n pbcl gb gur Pbzzvffvbare naq gb gur Gnkcnlre Nqibpngrf bssvpr.
4. Lbh jvyy fvta lbhe bja cncref naq yrggref haqre cranygl bs crewhel.
5. Lbh nfx gur VEF gb qb gur fnzr jura gurl pbzzhavpngr jvgu lbh. Fraq lbhe yrggref Pregvsvrq jvgu nyy gur tbbqvrf, Fvtangher raqbefrzrag naq Erghea Erprvcg Erdhrfgrq!!!!! Npphengryl genpxvat lbhe pbeerfcbaqrapr vf lbhe wbo.
6. Nyjnlf erfcbaq gb nyy Pregvsvrq Yrggref sebz gur VEF jvgu gur fnzr yrggre lbh pbzcbfrq va #3. Qba'g trg syhfgrerq ol gur Pregvsvrqf! Gurl ner jevggra gb fpner gur fuvg bhg bs lbh. Nyy lbh unir gb qb vf #3 naq #4 naq #5.
7. Gur VEF pbzchgre jvyy znvy lbh gur naahny Erzvaqre yrggref sebz gur VEF erzvaqvat gb lbh svyr lbhe gnk sbez sbe lrne KKKK. Gurl fraq lbh n havdhr pbzchgrevmrq yrggre sbe rnpu lrne gung lbh unira'g svyrq. Gurl pbzr va erthyne znvyf, ab arrq gb erfcbaq gb gubfr.
8. V qba'g xabj guvf sbe erny. V'z gbgnyyl znxvat vg hc ba gur syl. Naq V nz qehax evtug abj.
9. Rira V qba'g oryvrir rirelguvat jung V jebgr va guvf cbfg. Guvf ragver cbfg vf evqqyrq jvgu qrprcgvir yvrf juvpu ner qrfvtarq gb trg zr bss gur ubbx jvgu gur VEF orpnhfr V'z frggvat hc gur qrny jvgu gurz evtug abj gb trg zr bhg bs gur srqreny cra fb V pna fpnz n ohapu bs fhpxref ybbxvat sbe gur rnfl jnl bhg. Jryy gurer vf ab rnfl jnl bhg bs vg. Naq gurve zvtug or fbzr fgrcf zvffvat.
10. Vs lbh sbyybj nyy gurfr ehyrf lbh jvyy nyjnlf raq hc va wnvy sbe n ybat, ybat gvzr. Vg'f n zrgncubevpny wnvy jurer lbh orpbzr na bhgfvqre gb gur flfgrz jurarire gur dhrfgvba bs gnkrf pbzrf hc. Lbh unir gb or qvfperrg.
11. Pybfr gur guernq naq qba'g ybbx onpx ohg erzrzore #8 naq #9 naq #10.

Originally posted by frazzle
Good to meet you, too, SJ. There just can't be enough of us in this corner of the ring.

Excellent.

I can't remember the last time that the IRS was so under siege! I really think Obama could clean the house with IRS and shut it down. If he did that it would relieve him from his current predicament.

Repealing the 16th and the 22nd. And then Obama can have a third term.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by MrPlow

 

So basically as long as I don't pay somebody with a Federal Reserve Note, I don't have to pay taxes?

You reminded me of one of my favorite artists from a decade ago that I made a thread about it

Here www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is Mr. Boggs

He is a man who makes his own money. And I love it.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

2. Banister’s victory was reported in the July 11, 2005 issue of the American Free Press.

Ahh, I forgot about Joe Banister even though I kept track of his go-around with the IRS at the time It was going down, through the AFP.

Thing is, those foxy media folk avoid talking about the wins so the majority of people never hear of them.

Most people wouldn't believe this, but, you are allowed to set your withholdings on the fly. You can change a single with 1 exemption to single and 7. Many people will do this in the cases where they have a lack of cash flow temporarily and need to keep a few more bucks of their paycheck.

When the cashflow problem is over, they would set it back down to normal. Right? Or they could forget to change it back. And one year later they could.... I'm not suggesting that anybody do this.... forget to file a 1040.

I know people who have done this quite successfully ~ forgotten to change it back I mean. But its an individual stop gap measure, not a solution.

The federal reserve act should have required a constitutional amendment to "relieve" congress of its duty to issue the currency and as far as the 16th is concerned, many claim it was not ratified properly according to the rules. www.thelawthatneverwas.com...

I'll have to study on that rot 13 thingy.

No president will try to straighten out the mess again, they have Kennedy as an example of what happens next. Its not the man, its the machine ~ the millstones of the banking gods that grind us all exceedingly fine and I'm afraid we're ground down to the point now that a complete reboot is what it would take to free us.

Stopping at a red traffic light is "voluntary" too but if you fail to do it, you still get in trouble with the authorities.