Outgoing IRS Chief: Taxes Voluntary

Oh man!!! All those theories about Income Taxes could very well be true! Coming straight from the horse's mouth! I'm guessing this will be swept under the rug in NO TIME!

www.breitbart.com...



"On Friday, former acting IRS Commissioner Steve Miller, testifying before the House Ways and Means Committee, said that America’s tax system is “voluntary.”

During the hearing, Rep. Devin Nunes (D-CA) said in passing that the U.S. tax code is a "voluntary system." Miller simply responded, "Agreed."

This line has been used before by none other than Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Interviewed by Jan Helfeld in 2008, this is how the conversation went:

Helfeld: If the government is in the business of forcefully taking money from some people in order to provide welfare benefits to others, how will the people whose money is being taken feel about the government?
Reid: Well, I don’t accept your phraseology. I don’t think we force people-
Helfeld: Taxation is not forceful?
Reid: Well, no ..
Helfeld: It’s voluntary?
Reid: Quite the contrary. Our system of government Is a voluntary tax system
Helfeld: If you don’t want to pay your taxes, you don’t have to?
Reid: Of course you have to pay your taxes
Helfeld: The government will force you to pay or they will fine you or imprison you."

Sorry if I failed to quote websites correctly... It's been awhile.

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO


It seems right or wrong has never mattered, "they" could shut down all of your paper trails and imprison you singly.
It happened to wesley snipes and a score of others.
Now how do you feel about the truth of the situation??
The only way to make that monster go away is to make yourself so below their radar that they cannot audit you aka standard deduction on everything, or if everyone stopped with you.
I do not foresee the latter happening so, ...better trim the fat and learn to live simple.

reply to post by g146541


The biggest bully always wins.

wars against nations and the people are not fought with swords and firepower , but with pens.

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO


By "welfare benefits" he isnt simply referring to low income government assistance but any and all type of welfare including corporate and military welfare.

Just listen to the doublespeak by Reid. Its a voluntary system but you have to pay...

reply to post by gladtobehere


Reid can't possibly be that ignorant with the definition of what voluntary means... LOL...
He calls our system voluntary just because the government shifts the responsibilities with paying taxes from our employers to us??? What a joke!

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO


In other words the government considers our tax system voluntary because they volunteer us to pay in taxes so they can use that money to give assistance to mouth breathers.

Welcome to the new America. A member of the government lying right at you (because what you say or what you name something is infinitely more important than what you do).

reply to post by gladtobehere

Just listen to the doublespeak by Reid. Its a voluntary system but you have to pay...

Exactly, how can it be both at the same time. It's either one or the other... and I'm leaning towards voluntary because I've seen so many former IRS employees say the same thing. Is there truly a law which makes paying taxes mandatory in the US? Knowing that law would surely clear a lot of this confusion up.

They must really think we are dumb.

I bet they laugh about how they treat people.

Voluntary?

reply to post by SecretWeapon

What the hell is "mouth breathers"? Is that a new slang reference to the needy? Is it added to the list of other references of the needy. i.e., leeches, bottom dwellers, useless eaters, swine, slime and such? If so, do you feel a heightened sense of self worth when you use these references?
Just wonderin.....

reply to post by dagann


lol.... "Mouth Breathers" is a term for people of lower class or....literally, prank calling perverts back in the days that phones were used for prank calls (before a digital display show your number and address in seconds). It's funny what some get so worked up about. It's a saying I've heard since I was old enough to recall hearing 'figure of speech' terms.

@Thread

If my taxes are voluntary to pay....why is it, the prisons have their share of people convicted on Tax Evasion as a felony crime? How can one criminally evade what isn't required by law?

Oh... I get it. They mean we can just move and that is the voluntary part. Hmm... How many ways has uncle found to keep taxing people, even working outside the nation? Hell...Even working overseas, I was looking at a VERY strict count of 24hr period days to maintain tax status for working outside. ONE DAY too many spent with family inside the US on R&R? Meant a full, payable tax bill waiting for the full amount.

Voluntary is listening to them babble this B.S. Involuntary is following their B.S. by force of law.

Classic doublespeak, taxes are voluntary, but if you don't volunteer you get thrown in jail. And I'm guessing your prison sentence would also be 'voluntary'. Just like how military service is voluntary, but as soon as you volunteer you lose all your rights.

That's 'free' America.

Originally posted by filosophia
Classic doublespeak, taxes are voluntary, but if you don't volunteer you get thrown in jail. And I'm guessing your prison sentence would also be 'voluntary'. Just like how military service is voluntary, but as soon as you volunteer you lose all your rights.

That's 'free' America.

Here's some straight speech from way back when ...

Perhaps it will be found, that the supposed want of power in Congress to levy taxes is, at present a veil happily thrown over the inability of the people; and that the large powers given to the new government will, to every one, expose the nakedness of our land. Certain it is, that if the expectations which are grafted on the gift of those plenary powers, are not answered, our credit will be irretrievably ruined.

CINCINNATUS, December 6, 1787, New-York Journal

www.rightsofthepeople.com...

The emperor has no clothes, never did. Sad that it took a little over a couple hundred years for people to see through the veil to the ugliness beneath.

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO


Taxation is voluntary in the same way that driving licences are voluntary; you can refuse to participate, but you will face punishment for not participating. As long as you're happy with imprisonment, you can do what you like.

It should be remembered that this is for you though, things are a little different if you're a millionaire or a corporation or bank.

I have a feeling the US system is the same as the one we have in the UK.

Lets say a corporation gets a tax bill from HMRC (or the US equivalent - IRS) for £3 billion.
The corporation will then go to court to argue that they shouldn't have to pay that.
They can pay a lawyer for the rest of his life to tie up the government in court with constant distractions and legal loopholes. They could pay that lawyer just £1 million and he would be on call for the rest of his life working 9 - 5 keeping HMRC in court and making them spend million more chasing that money.
So, the corporation goes to dinner with someone at HMRC and they come to an agreement, they agree to pay £3 million instead of the £3 billion they actually owe.
HMRC has no choice but to agree to this, and of course it helps that the corporation has paid for dinner, and maybe gives a few politicians and senior people at HMRC a holiday at their corporately owned mansion in the South of France...

What is to stop any corporation from just saying no to a tax bill?
Why wouldn't a corporation spend a fraction of the money they actually owe on fighting it completely?
If a corporation even owed one billion it would be in their interest to just spent a decade fighting it in court! No government can then justify to the public why they have spent another five million trying to get that one billion from a corporation that can afford to just keep them in court forever.

This is why corporations are evil, why they are black holes of wealth, why we find ourselves all paying more and more in taxes, while they all pay less and less.

Unless the people act, stop supporting those corporations and start taking direct responsibility for every £, $ or € they spend and where it goes, nothing will ever change.

Paying taxes is exceedingly voluntary when working outside the confines of the W-2. Even with a W-2, you volunteer other information to create an accurate picture of how much you owe, or how much is owed to you.

It's based on the honor system and the ability to navigate a horribly confusing and needlessly complex tax code.

Originally posted by monkeySEEmonkeyDO
Oh man!!! All those theories about Income Taxes could very well be true! Coming straight from the horse's mouth! I'm guessing this will be swept under the rug in NO TIME!

www.breitbart.com...



"On Friday, former acting IRS Commissioner Steve Miller, testifying before the House Ways and Means Committee, said that America’s tax system is “voluntary.”

Yes, taxes are voluntary. But, they arrest you if you refuse to volunteer.

Originally posted by dagann
reply to post by SecretWeapon

 

What the hell is "mouth breathers"? Is that a new slang reference to the needy? Is it added to the list of other references of the needy. i.e., leeches, bottom dwellers, useless eaters, swine, slime and such? If so, do you feel a heightened sense of self worth when you use these references?
Just wonderin.....

Dumb people tend to always have their mouth open

All of you are making incorrect analogies and correlations here.

1) Congress is allowed, by law to lay and collect taxes. It's called the 16th Amendment.

2) Yes, taxes are voluntary.

3) You volunteer to pay those taxes once you decide to participate as a contributing member of society. (i.e. - getting a job, investments, buying a piece of land, etc)

4) If you decide that you do NOT want to be a part of normal society, than you are under no compulsion to pay any taxes - as you are not playing with others using Government issued bank notes.

So, in essence - what they are saying is very clear and very true.
They're just under-explaining what they mean when they say "taxes are voluntarily....you must pay your taxes"

It's not double talk - it's just not being fully explained.

Slightly off topic, but I've always wondered what happens if you're audited and it turns out you're insane, demented, or memory-impaired. What does the nice IRS auditor do? Tell you to pay your bill, when you don't have the money or stick you in jail? Really...?

So many of our problems would be solved if people refused to buy the Monsanto food and refused to file or pay the 'tax bills' and refused to join the armed forces.