Outgoing IRS Chief: Taxes Voluntary

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO


I'm pretty sure taxes are submitted voluntarily, but if you don't pay them, then you can be imprisoned or have your property taken. So "voluntary" is relatively meaningless in this case.

reply to post by Bhadhidar
He can work under another electrician's license. A plumber, HVAC company, electrical company, usually only has one person with a masters license. He hires workers that are working to get their license, an apprentice so to speak.

The apprentice may or may not know what he is doing, but the guy with the masters license has to sign off on the job.

As an aircraft mechanic, I can work on the the 747 that carries your butt across the Atlantic, and be perfectly legal without a A&P license as long as a certified A&P signs off on the work.

Voluntary in principle (under the "original law")....Involuntary in practice (under the "color of law").

Originally posted by elfrog
reply to post by Bhadhidar

 

He can work under another electrician's license. A plumber, HVAC company, electrical company, usually only has one person with a masters license. He hires workers that are working to get their license, an apprentice so to speak.

The apprentice may or may not know what he is doing, but the guy with the masters license has to sign off on the job.

As an aircraft mechanic, I can work on the the 747 that carries your butt across the Atlantic, and be perfectly legal without a A&P license as long as a certified A&P signs off on the work.

Not anymore my friend . At least not in Oklahoma. Now in order to be granted even an apprentice license you have to be current on your...wait for it...

TAXES.

that's right. I actually used that loophole at a few small companies to run my own van when the journyman was a (insert derogatory insult)

But I guess a few years ago they passed some law that shut it down. Its 2 apprentices (with valid license) per 1 journyman.

And my pay went up. Well actually I've kept pay about the same but my quality time is through the roof lol.

I can work 3 days and make my 5 day working wage. Its tax free.and people in this economy like a quality job done at 60-75% the standard market rate.

Its a win win for all invoked really.

Voluntary means what is says, it's up to you to volunteer the information to the IRS and to send in your check.

reply to post by SQUEALER


Dude, thats still not voluntary even if youre just talking about the info (which I wasnt), because if they find out about any income you didnt "volunteer" to tell them about and they deem it to be "taxable" they will intimidate, harass and detain you if you dont pay up!

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

Just listen to the doublespeak by Reid. Its a voluntary system but you have to pay...

Exactly, how can it be both at the same time. It's either one or the other... and I'm leaning towards voluntary because I've seen so many former IRS employees say the same thing. Is there truly a law which makes paying taxes mandatory in the US? Knowing that law would surely clear a lot of this confusion up.

In other words they can put us in jail for nonpayment as long as we don't fight them in court....I have a book by Irwin Schiff called, "The Federal Mafia", and he also says according to the IRS it is voluntary. So what I'm guessing is that they get away with prosecuting people because we sign our returns saying we agree to this.

Any wages that required ones labor, technically isn't taxable!!reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO

Originally posted by monkeySEEmonkeyDO
Oh man!!! All those theories about Income Taxes could very well be true! Coming straight from the horse's mouth! I'm guessing this will be swept under the rug in NO TIME!

www.breitbart.com...



"On Friday, former acting IRS Commissioner Steve Miller, testifying before the House Ways and Means Committee, said that America’s tax system is “voluntary.”

During the hearing, Rep. Devin Nunes (D-CA) said in passing that the U.S. tax code is a "voluntary system." Miller simply responded, "Agreed."

This line has been used before by none other than Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Interviewed by Jan Helfeld in 2008, this is how the conversation went:

Helfeld: If the government is in the business of forcefully taking money from some people in order to provide welfare benefits to others, how will the people whose money is being taken feel about the government?
Reid: Well, I don’t accept your phraseology. I don’t think we force people-
Helfeld: Taxation is not forceful?
Reid: Well, no ..
Helfeld: It’s voluntary?
Reid: Quite the contrary. Our system of government Is a voluntary tax system
Helfeld: If you don’t want to pay your taxes, you don’t have to?
Reid: Of course you have to pay your taxes
Helfeld: The government will force you to pay or they will fine you or imprison you."

edit on 19-5-2013 by monkeySEEmonkeyDO because: (no reason given)

well....Reid must be lying.. because I remember a mega thread on here like a couple years back that there was a couple arrested for not paying taxes, huge media coverage and the whole sha-bang..

so yea...no where does it say we have to .. but, if we don't .. we get the hammer or the slammer.. someone better answer to this..

and if this is the case .. my back taxes should be wiped out ..

Originally posted by Another_Nut

Not anymore my friend . At least not in Oklahoma. Now in order to be granted even an apprentice license you have to be current on your...wait for it...

TAXES.

But, there's another law that says no man can be denied to right to earn a living wage.

So, if that apprentice license is necessary for you to earn your income, they have to give it to you. They can, however, then garnish your income to pay the back taxes. But, they can't stop you from work.

The problem is that the government does not follow the laws they are tasked with upholding and implementing. The government can do whatever they want to most people, because most people do not have the time or means to fight such a large group to clear their name. It is easier to just take it on the chin and move on with your life. Honestly though, with all of the tricks the government can use, they can get away with anything. They can claim national security and lock a person up and throw away the key, and there is absolutely nothing anyone can force them to do about it.

Originally posted by SQUEALER

Originally posted by Another_Nut

Not anymore my friend . At least not in Oklahoma. Now in order to be granted even an apprentice license you have to be current on your...wait for it...

TAXES.

But, there's another law that says no man can be denied to right to earn a living wage.

So, if that apprentice license is necessary for you to earn your income, they have to give it to you. They can, however, then garnish your income to pay the back taxes. But, they can't stop you from work.

edit on 19-5-2013 by SQUEALER because: (no reason given)

Yea im sue there is ,but tell that to the state lol. they just tell me to work at McDonald's pay them back then apply again.

Really though last time I tried this trick about 2 years ago they denied my apprentice license.

Everyone knows its nonsense. But the state wouldn't issue it.

(truth be told I think im much happier for it I like 3 6 hour days instead of 5 8 hour ones . )

Double

Post

being forced to pay at the point of gun is called robbery last time I checked the definition.

So I suppose the CIA intel operations over seas, the drones, F22's, Joint Light Tactical Vehicles and the stealth bombers...they will all pay for themselves when we stop paying taxes, right? Get real, folks. I hate the fact I can't keep everything I make too but, these things do not pay for themselves. Would you rather the corporations take even more control and that we privatize these things completely? Yeah, that would make politics even less corrupt, right? The system is far from perfect but, there's a reason why we need to collect taxes.

I don't think congressmen or senators should get pensions and benefits long after they've served, or retirees should be forced to pay property taxes when they own only one home on fixed incomes, or that billion dollar corporations be exempt from certain taxes but, that's another topic.

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO

Reid; I don’t accept your phraseology. I don’t think we force people-

Well, I don't like his phraseology either, calling something voluntary when it most certainly is not!!

reply to post by Bhadhidar

And bear in mind, it is not even the IRS who wrote the Code (and thus gave rise to this on-going obfuscation, leading to mis-interpetation), it was/is Congress.

Gov't-of course- no confusion there.

In the Wax-Hatchman act, the definition of exactly means a 10-20% difference in the amount of medication in generic medication. So not 10mg exactly.. but 10-20% more or less...maybe 8mg or 12mg. Now it takes quite a bit of reading in the act to find, and I have this in my drafts somewhere, but I'm not going to root through to search it out and provide proof. Forgive me but I just don't have the time or energy.

My point is that legal terms and definitions can mean whatever the Govt wants the word/s to mean at any given time and for any reason that suits their needs.

reply to post by WP4YT


sort of like your avatar?

You cannot speak with a closed mouth. You cannot think with a closed mind. When you look down upon people through your nose, you probably already see yourself so high above their problems, you could never have empathy through what they go through.

Not everyone getting help is abusing the system, actually quite the contrary. Very very few, abuse the system. It would be like saying every driver is a drunk driver, just because a very small part of the driving population is irresponsible.

The best case for welfare is the writer of the Harry Potter series. She was on the UK equivalent of welfare. Now she is a billionaire. She didn't move her money to a swiss bank, because she feels that the system helped her when she was down on her luck, and she is now contributing back to that system, many times over what she took out of it.


More on topic, taxes are voluntary, if you find all your work under the table/off the books. You could essentially trade goods or services as well. It would be too much effort to live that way indefinitely for most people though; flying under the radar takes more effort than clocking in and shutting down.


The Orwellian trends are getting more common and transparent, and a bit scary. And political correctness, at times, begins to remind me of 'Anthem' from Rand. When I was a kid, never thought I'd understand something like 'Archie Bunker' so well, and miss that kind of honesty and straight forward speech, guess I was kind of a 'Meathead' back then. I don't have to agree with the sentiment, but I sure do appreciate people not tip toeing over every comment ... even though me giving a little flak for the mouth breather comment seems contradictory

Here is how it works folks, read em and weep:

If you are ignorant and easy to manipulate : You believe you owe taxes. You mindlessly sign contracts agreeing to things like this. You are horrible with paperwork and definitely not lawyer material.

If you are cunning and wise : You know that you only owe what you believe you owe. You refuse to sign stupid contracts with scum bucket backstabbers. You are great with paperwork and would be a top quality lawyer.

Hopefully this clears things up.

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO


Your Income is not taxable by law, but the loophole is that the government makes the employers of the jobs have applicants sign the w-2 which is your consent to be taxed. If the employers didn't do this step the government would fine them. Basically it doesn't matter because the government is going to get it's money one way or the other.

The only chance would be to unify as a nation, but this will never happen. Were too busy fighting each other to overthrow a government. Why do you think a supposed democracy is setup the way it is??? Rep/Dems...so we argue and fight each other.

The governments create the problems on purpose so they can come up with a solution. If there were no problems we wouldn't need a government. It really is that simple. Democracy was the most ingenious way to enslave people that believe they are truly free. This is modern day slavery!

instead of filing taxes, file your UCC

claim your rights, be a freeman...