Senate passes "Marketplace Fairness Act aka Internet Sales Tax

reply to post by 727Sky


That kinda depends if your considered a loyal customer or not with some of these shippers. I rarely pay shipping.

I do want to make a statement.....I hate taxes as much as anyone else does. But think about the state you live in. Would you rather pay a higher tax rate within your state, pay higher property taxes, ad nauseam? Of course not.

If we wrangle in inter state commerce taxes, we all will save somewhat in the future. Let it play out.

Originally posted by SinMaker
reply to post by eLPresidente

 

Buy a vehicle in Georgia and try to get it legal in Florida. You will pay your taxes according to the state dictates. I've lived in many different states, you can not get around sales taxes on vehicles. Ever.

Buy a vehicle in Georgia and register it in Georgia, and drive it in Florida.
Buy a tv in Georgia and watch it in Florida.
Buy a diamond in Georgia and wear it in Florida.


Tax justification is ugly.

reply to post by beezzer


LOL. You can probably get away with the t.v. and diamond.

This will absolutely hammer small businesses. The law would impact any business with gross sales - gross sales not profit of over $1M/year which means it would hit millions of small businesses.

These small businesses will now be forced to collect sales taxes for the country’s 9,600 state and local tax jurisdictions. These firms will be subject to both state and federal audits, must file monthly or quarterly tax returns to all 46 states that have no sales tax. It is a better decision to either keep your gross sales below $1M, exactly the same incentive ObamaCare gives when you get hammered if you hire the 50th employee who works full-time. Easy solution to that one - don't hire the 50th or cut a bunch of folks hours so that you don't have to participate in ObamaCare.

If one of these businesses sells something to someone in NYC, they would have to keep track of federal, NY State and NYC tax. Three different administrative transactions for one sale. This also includes all of the required record retention requirements and other associated practices which will be mandated by this law.

How in the world can some small company that sells something on-line that has a dozen employees comply with this administrative burden? They can't. There is no way they can. They will need a team of folks (or hire someone else) to do that. The sheer volume of audits will require almost a full time audit team to prepare for audits, conduct internal audits to ensure proper controls are in place, etc. I have sat across the table from federal auditors and regulators and it is without a doubt not a joke nor a pleasant experience.

If I had a small business with over $1M in gross sales, I would do one of 4 things.

1. Wind the business down so that the gross sales were under $1M
2. Split the firm into multiple corporate entities, each dealing with a subset of states or a subset of my total product offerings to get it below $1M.
3. Incorporate outside of the US
4. Sell the business

The one thing I would most definitely not do is comply with this lunacy. If they wanted to establish an internet sales tax, which they should not do, they could have come up with an aggregated tax level, say the average of all of the jurisdictions and made it flat.

It will not amount to a thing - thankfully this will never pass the house

Thomas Massie (a Ron Paul Republican, representative from Kentucky) is fighting this 'fairness (LOL) act head on.

secure.freedomworks.org...

Rep. Thomas Massie has penned a letter in defense of internet freedom – and he’s looking for support.

Under the guise of a “Marketplace Fairness Act,” big-government politicians are colluding with big-business to levy taxes on internet purchases. Not only would this legislation boost the tax bill for America’s consumers, it would slow down an already stagnant economy. Our job creators are already hampered by aggressive regulations – they simply can’t afford more bureaucratic red tape.

Rep. Massie wrote a letter to Speaker Boehner and Leader Cantor, urging them to oppose this Internet Tax bill in the House. Let’s try to rally up more support. Get on the phone with Reps. Mick Mulvaney, Ron DeSantis, Andy Barr, and Tom Graves. Ask them to sign Massie’s letter. These are some of the most principled, conservative members of Congress, and they would make fantastic allies for Rep. Massie.

Call one of the trustworthy members of Congress below, and urge them to sign on to Massie’s letter!

reply to post by SinMaker


DICK SMITHS (Australia) the cheapest HDMI Cable they sell on the shelf is $49.95AU for a 2m HDMI Cable.

$49AU = $51US for a 2m HDMI Cable?
I can buy a 2m cable online for $6.95.

You've got to be #*(!&%(! kidding me, why would I shop at a store with such an outrageous price?

This bill will help no one but the government.

Small business will still suffer because they need to pay rent, wages, insurance, power bills.. you name it.

Online companies purely pay the internet cost and that's it.

This is nothing but the government putting their hands into your pockets.

Here in AUS, they started introducing fee's at clothing shops to 'try on' clothes because it became apparent people would test something, then buy it online for 30% cheaper.


here's an example

..also, what about businesses that BUY their goods online to sell on Australian markets? doesn't this mean those prices will rise, too ?

It is funny how all of these power grabbing and revenue enhancing acts have harmless sounding euphemisms for a name...."marketplace fairness" meaning that it is not ''fair'' to the states missing out on tax revenues naturally.

OK, here is the breakdown of what's going on.

First of all, Big Business is behind this. The reason is simple. Most of the biggest companies are already collecting these taxes. If they aren't, then they certainly have a mechanism in place to do so. Big Company's are supporting this to force smaller companies out of business. Just like Wal-mart did in every small town in America.

Just for clarity's sake...tracking and collecting these taxes is NOT NEARLY as complicated as some of you are making it out to be. There are software companies that specialize in this, right down to specific tax rates in every parish in Louisiana. It is still an additional expense, but a lot cheaper than many seem to think.

That being said, most small businesses aren't in a position to absorb that extra expense. And yes, in addition to extra software costs, there will be extra accounting expense (but again not as crazy as some think).

The net effect is additional tax income directly out of the pocket of the consumer. Software and accounting expenses passed on to the consumer. Many medium sized internet operation gradually forced out of business. The large internet retailers will be able to clean up when this happens. Their customers will have slightly less to spend, but the businesses will gain even larger market share, and be able to exercise more price control with less competition. The software and accounting expense for Big Business will be negligible.

And of course the states will have more of our money to waste. I for one will keep buying online, preferably from small companies whenever possible. I understand why so many bemoan the loss of Mom and Pop local businesses, but we need to stop and realize that this generation's Mom and Pop's are running out of the garage or from the kitchen table. Dig just a little and you can buy almost anything you need from a home entrepreneur just trying to keep a roof over his/her family's head.

Great.... I buy everything on the Internet to avoid 7% sales tax, guess what? ill prob just buy less now. Good job government.

It wont matter anyway Brick and mortar stores are dying it's inevitable at this point. the sales tax will even nothing out when stores are charging 35% more then online retailers.

Damn the government is corrupt....

Is it just me or was there only ONE poster in this entire thread that was cheerleading the new sales tax?

That's already one TOO MANY.

Let's call this what it is...a money grab.

All polls indicated that he public did NOT want or agree with this.

Ask yourselves: How then did our REPRESENTATIVES come to vote for it?

Who exactly do they actually represent?

That's right - BUSINESS.

Hasn't anyone figured out that this new sales tax act is unconstitutional? Here's why.

Article 1 sec. 10 para. 2
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

The problem here is that imported goods which make up most of the internet sales are immune to state taxes including sales taxes. While they can actually collect them the problem is that the revenue belongs to the Federal Treasury. They are not allowed to keep it!
This new sales tax collection effort is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. They only way the states can collect and keep the revenue is by a Constitutional Amendment!


When did we lose OUR RIGHT to state tax free imported goods????

Originally posted by eLPresidente
Now it is up to the House of Reps, will they bow down to big government?

List of senators that voted for this new sales tax in link below.

At first some people might say, yes! internet companies should be taxed (include sales tax) just like business owners across the country who are subjected to their local state sales taxes. I would argue that we should NEVER encourage setting the precedent for more taxes, ever!

If we want to be more fair to small business owners, we should be introducing and supporting legislation that LOWERS sales taxes for business owners who currently suffer. It is not the business owners' fault that some states are SO deep in DEBT that they constantly have to raise taxes/sales taxes to keep up with their own WRECK-LESS spending.

How about something like a state government that is so fiscally responsible and efficient that they can even generate revenue and RETURN it to the PEOPLE? wow what a concept!


Maybe this illustration would help put things in perspective.

See who voted, here:

www.senate.gov...

I'm glad Rand Paul fought this bill, I received several action alerts from him in the recent weeks about calling my senators and asking them to vote no. My senators are Feinstein and Boxer in California, it is an extremely rare occurrence where they actually agree with Senator Rand Paul.

edit on 6-5-2013 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

Not to sound lazy, but what is the law on sales tax through mail order catalogs and over the phone purchases from TV advertisements?

Anyone with any understanding of what the internet really is, will see if the government wanted to be jerks about it, they could go after merchants for the back taxes. By going this route they are forgiving the back taxes and merely saying "from this moment forward".

By fighting this bill, you actually open a huge legal can of worms.

After reading the bill itself, it seems the Senate doesn't really understand the true nature of the problem either.
I am thinking my original examples are in error, but a new one enter my head. Most internet purchases, are ownership at time of purchase(not on delivery). The important part of that is, the sale is happening in the state the remote seller is located. Making it legally easy for states to collect sales tax. Now if it was ownership at delivery it might be a more complex matter.

Originally posted by ntech
Hasn't anyone figured out that this new sales tax act is unconstitutional? Here's why.

Article 1 sec. 10 para. 2
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

The problem here is that imported goods which make up most of the internet sales are immune to state taxes including sales taxes. While they can actually collect them the problem is that the revenue belongs to the Federal Treasury. They are not allowed to keep it!
This new sales tax collection effort is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. They only way the states can collect and keep the revenue is by a Constitutional Amendment!


When did we lose OUR RIGHT to state tax free imported goods????

How is the transaction between seller and buyer an example of interstate commerce when the transaction happen in one state, and the buyer contracts with another company to transport the goods to them? Most internet purchases treat the merchandise as becoming the property of the buyer at time of payment, not at delivery. It is a way for merchants to absolve themselves of lost packages, or broken during delivery(hence why buyers are often strongly urged to get delivery insurance).

Now if a state where to tax the interstate delivery of goods that would be in violation of the Constitution. As stands, there is nothing wrong with states taxing the transfer of property ownership that happens within their own states.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
This will absolutely hammer small businesses. The law would impact any business with gross sales - gross sales not profit of over $1M/year which means it would hit millions of small businesses.

These small businesses will now be forced to collect sales taxes for the country’s 9,600 state and local tax jurisdictions. These firms will be subject to both state and federal audits, must file monthly or quarterly tax returns to all 46 states that have no sales tax. It is a better decision to either keep your gross sales below $1M, exactly the same incentive ObamaCare gives when you get hammered if you hire the 50th employee who works full-time. Easy solution to that one - don't hire the 50th or cut a bunch of folks hours so that you don't have to participate in ObamaCare.

If one of these businesses sells something to someone in NYC, they would have to keep track of federal, NY State and NYC tax. Three different administrative transactions for one sale. This also includes all of the required record retention requirements and other associated practices which will be mandated by this law.

How in the world can some small company that sells something on-line that has a dozen employees comply with this administrative burden? They can't. There is no way they can. They will need a team of folks (or hire someone else) to do that. The sheer volume of audits will require almost a full time audit team to prepare for audits, conduct internal audits to ensure proper controls are in place, etc. I have sat across the table from federal auditors and regulators and it is without a doubt not a joke nor a pleasant experience.

If I had a small business with over $1M in gross sales, I would do one of 4 things.

1. Wind the business down so that the gross sales were under $1M
2. Split the firm into multiple corporate entities, each dealing with a subset of states or a subset of my total product offerings to get it below $1M.
3. Incorporate outside of the US
4. Sell the business

The one thing I would most definitely not do is comply with this lunacy. If they wanted to establish an internet sales tax, which they should not do, they could have come up with an aggregated tax level, say the average of all of the jurisdictions and made it flat.

It will not amount to a thing - thankfully this will never pass the house

If you actually read the law(or rather the Senate version), the software is given to remote sellers free of charge. So all it consumes is time.

Originally posted by SinMaker
This legislation will help mom and pop business's. It's hard to compete with the Amazon's in the world when they offer no tax on high (or even low) ticket items.

IMHO, this is a good thing. Those big internet warehouse business's bank on high volume and sliver profits. Now, they have to compete with the local retailer.

I disagree, mom and pops that didn't include extra service or close convenience were killed more by Walmart than the Internet. Local brick and mortar have always had an advantage, what the internet did is take away their monopoly which meant they have to keep their prices reasonably close enough so, that people don't mind paying a little extra for service. More than half the things I order online include a tax and many brick and mortars sell their wares on the Internet unless they are not savvy.

This bill will kill sales and ultimately result in less B&O taxes or whatever business taxes are for each state. Less sales means exactly what it means an economy killer that ultimataly results in less state taxes. This bill shoots themselves in the foot for a little greed.

Shipping often removes most tax advantages except for expensive items and if you really want something that's available locally, you will buy it local so you can have it now and return it without having to ship. Just more useless red tape that will hurt more than it helps.

I keep hearing that this "levels the playing field".

It's just a tad unsettling to me that when a bunch of tethered and bound slaves see someone running free they seek to level the playing field by tethering and binding that free man.

Hey, doofus! How's about casting off your own shackles to level the playing field?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Ahhh.... I've come to learn that when a bill has "Fairness" in the name? The only thing it's going to be "Fair" to is the Government itself. We never see the nice end of that fair concept. Just the big blunt end where the sun don't shine.

I now have absolutely no reason to shop online when the same product exists in a real store, anywhere within driving distance. The only benefit left was a bit of savings. Now? The offset falls in favor of a real counter and human being to go raise hell with when it breaks or never works in the first place. Nice forward thinking there, Congress. Oh yeah.... regular brainiacs up there.

I don't understand why people have an issue with this bill. It protects the mom n pop stores and local retailers. I understand you will have to pay an extra couple percent on your bill but why does everyone not want to shop locally and help the people in your community... you should be doing this already if you ask me. Instead, you send your money off to parts unknown to god knows who and feed into big business.

Originally posted by DoubleDNH

... but why does everyone not want to shop locally and help the people in your community... you should be doing this already if you ask me. Instead, you send your money off to parts unknown to god knows who and feed into big business.

Because the last time I've been able to find anything I was looking for in a brick and mortar store other than groceries was never.

Unless I want to ignore the fact that the thing I really want is online somewhere and just buy the thing that closests resembles what I want because it's the only thing available.