If your city is on "lock-down", do NOT look outside.

Originally posted by Danbones
Funny, he can point a gun at you, but you can NOT point a gun at him...

Why would you want to

Let me just say that when there's a perceived safety improvement or benefit to something, people will be willing to lose some freedoms if they believe the need for it's strong enough.

Like someone else said, once you lose those freedoms it's very hard to get them back. The society adjusts to the new boundaries and will perceive past boundaries as unlawful or irresponsible. So anybody saying that society should fall back on its older boundaries will be seen as a bad person.

We were never a perfectly free society. It's the nature of our universe. As technology improves, criminals and terrorists and enemies become ever more powerful. To correct for the increase in power of bad people, society has to clamp down on some freedoms. This doesn't have to be an ultra powerful police force or military force. It could just be a pill that everyone takes which destroys any bad impulses. Of course, what's a bad impulse? Society will have to define it. Alternatively, maybe through a form of telepathy all citizens connect to each other and locate the bad people. People who resist the telepathy will be suspects and it'll be easier to find them because they stick out.

How safe do we want to be?

Everyone realizes this was political right? No politician wants more civilian blood on their hands. If you don't like then DON"T VOTE FOR THEM AGAIN.

reply to post by Bone75


Why does everyone act like there was bombs going off everywhere? After the first kid was killed there was no more round fired or bombs set off. Granted they were unaware of wether he was armed or not but it didn't seem to be anymore dangerous than oh say down town chicago where the police don't want to go anymore not that I blame them.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
Let me just say that when there's a perceived safety improvement or benefit to something, people will be willing to lose some freedoms if they believe the need for it's strong enough.

Like someone else said, once you lose those freedoms it's very hard to get them back. The society adjusts to the new boundaries and will perceive past boundaries as unlawful or irresponsible. So anybody saying that society should fall back on its older boundaries will be seen as a bad person.

You are right. What if this guy would have gotten loose though, imagine the call for more cops then!!

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by Bone75

 

Why does everyone act like there was bombs going off everywhere? After the first kid was killed there was no more round fired or bombs set off. Granted they were unaware of wether he was armed or not but it didn't seem to be anymore dangerous than oh say down town chicago where the police don't want to go anymore not that I blame them.

You are right, it's because they didn't know. I like you man, hopefully you are having a good day.

reply to post by Covertblack


You are exactly right it ALL political. That is why it was done in that area because they have strong propensity to want to tell others how it will be and the residents are all behind it.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by Covertblack

 

You are exactly right it ALL political. That is why it was done in that area because they have strong propensity to want to tell others how it will be and the residents are all behind it.

Yup, but no one is calling out our politicians. Everyone is blaming the cops WHO ARE TOLD WHAT TO DO.

reply to post by ivbnu


You only like me cause I keep making your point for you

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by ivbnu

 

You only like me cause I keep making your point for you

That and you finally agreed with me on something.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


You can call it an emotional knee jerk response if you want, but its the truth.

And you will know full well that there is a world of difference between how you are supposed to operate and how things actually happen.

What you don't know, from that static picture, is how the guy was operating. You only know what you see from that instant. You have no idea if he didn't look first, what his concerns were, what he had been briefed to do or what the intel he had received said.

Add to that the fact that the rest of the people in the picture aren't reacting. Everyone else in the picture has their weapon pointed towards the floor.

So if the guy in the turret has seen movement in an upstairs window that disturbed him enough to want to check it out, what exactly has he done wrong in a potentially life threatening situation considering he did not discharge his weapon?

The answer is nothing at all.

He may have lowered the weapon immediately. The simple fact is the snap shot doesn't show that at all.

You may have done 6 years in the army, and your service is appreciated, but what about the wider tactical view and intelligence required to properly assess this picture, and the potential threat?

reply to post by neformore


After the Marines and my career in Law Enforcement, I can tell you that you are 100% correct

reply to post by Covertblack


Yes that is my whole problem here they have take tons of money and promised us safety. Now we have neither not from the police who are trained that we are trying to kill them, or the polititions who want more money cause of the "holes" in security. Less money less security, and guns pointed at us cause we "might" be dangerous.
And I'm wierd cause I don't clap for it.

I thought you americans had the 2nd amendment to protect you?

It doesnt seem to doing much good at the moment does it?

reply to post by ivbnu


Well police are trained to never become complacent, and to treat everyone with suspicion. But they have to be that way. One second it's a routine traffic stop, the next someone is pulling a gun in your face.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

I'm glad someone can explain the proper hanling of a weapon. Thats the first thing I learnd don't ever point a weapon at some one unless you plan to use it.
Then i practiced spelling

This is all nobrainer stuff to anyone that has been properly trained in the use and conduct of weapons and tactics.

I am all but questioning if these were all even trained officers, as anyone with more than 5 minutes of weapons training would already know these 2 fundamental weapons safety rules.

It is crazy so many think it is ok for the police to point weapons at civies with their fingers on trigger, like they are the guy that is being taken down.

This is what causes accidents, and is a blatant violation of ones rights.

Yes accidents happen somtimes, and even the best trained soldiers and LEOs mistake someone and point their weapon at them, but they immediately correct and aim away as they realize their mistake.

These guys approached every house I have seen pics and video of, with weapons on the folks, and or fingers on triggers. Acting as if every person they approached, was the party they were looking for, this is not the way of law and order, nor is it legal.

I dont know any state that allows firearms to be pointed at everyone, just because they might be a threat.

I know, how about we all just walk around with guns on everyone we see until we know they arent terrorists, because well you know safety first. they might be, chances are they arent, but why take the risk right?

I mean those who volunteer to go into harms way dont have to take any chances, why should those that havent volunteered to go into harms way have to take more of a risk?

The above reasoning is idiotic, but seems to me, to be exactly where some of the respondents are coming from.

This scares me a lot more than any guy or guys who have killed a couple of people, as the chances are I will never even see a single one of them, I do see police everyday though, and the thought of them running up on me and my family during a traffic stop with weapons on us, because we may be terrorists is stupid.

Happening at our home........ I think it is just lucky nobody was killed in all of this insanity.

reply to post by neformore


Its foolish to think you can protect someone from danger by putting them in danger.
You don't point your gun until you identify a target. common sense.
Think how horrible that guy would have felt if he inadvertanly fired oneoff and killed that guy.
Do you think anyone would have taken responsibility for his improper training?

reply to post by inverslyproportional


Yes, it's always been taught finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot. However, it's a unique situation and it should be treated as such. Nerves and human emotions can do a lot to how you act when you're afraid of dying.

There are areas of my city where if you are white and walk through them at night I can guarantee that you will be harassed, possibly mugged, and likely killed. If you call the police they will say well what are you doing here it is your own fault. Now, in these areas some Islamic teenager on the run would be the least of your concerns.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by neformore

 

Its foolish to think you can protect someone from danger by putting them in danger.
You don't point your gun until you identify a target. common sense.
Think how horrible that guy would have felt if he inadvertanly fired oneoff and killed that guy.
Do you think anyone would have taken responsibility for his improper training?

Well training dictates you aim at what you want to shoot, but again, it's a unique situation. You can't as an officer plan for every scenario and obviously human emotion took over.