Evidence of Ancient Advanced Civilizations...Would We Find It?

reply to post by Astyanax


So if the Anikythera mechanism was so trivial then why didn't anyone make anything like it for another 1000 years?

I can't believe someone could be so obtuse... anything is easy if you know it can be done... hindsight is 20/20 as they say... for people of that era to simply conceive of such a sophisticated and complex device is incredible.... It's so incredible that it indicates things were going on we have not been aware of... major major things...

reply to post by Astyanax


I would direct your attention to Heron of Alexandria, he created many advanced steam contraption's including automatic temple door's but as far as the Antikathyra Mechanism is concerned I am afraid I would have to disagree, yes some Renaissance jeweller's may have been able to replicate the structure but as we are getting better at our analysis it would seem that it was made with far more than jewellers skill's there were very complex mathematics involved to arrive at the necessary calculations inherent and embodied in the artefact as well as a very accurate level of astronomical knowledge.

Somebody long before Graham Hancock put it this way, it is as though civilisation came down a long road of part remembered knowledge and decaying science's, so let's flesh that out a little shall we.

The zero numeral, we take for granted whom invented it, well it is a matter of serious conjecture but the oldest known use would appear to be the Sumerian culture as well as knowing the decimal place like the Dogon tribe of Africa they knew the Sirius system to be a binary star system 'HOW', In many ancient ruins smooth ground lenses made of ruby and sapphire have been found and it is now believed they may been used in early telescope's long before they were supposedly invented.

China had a very great wealth of information, maybe even more than the great library of Alexandria but along came emperor chin after whom we call it china, now he had ALL scholars and historians put to death except the doctor's and astrologer's thereby cementing his place as the first emperor of all china (Who was he writing out of history, hmm.) and though it is very problematic to the classical view of Chinese history when they were excavating the terracotta army they came across the almost perfect remains of a sword that the looters whom deposed the chin dynasty after his death missed when the raided his tomb for weapon's, it had lost the handle to the damp soil but the blade was coated in a micron thin layer of chromium and was sharp enough to cut a silk handkerchief after being in the ground for over two thousand year's, undoubtedly knowledge that was lost in chin's purges.

Northern and western European's like myself are actually people whom migrated from area's east and west of us as the climactic condition's changed for the better leaving vast swaths of central Eurasia to the changing and drying climate which erased any traces above ground of our passing and the kingdom's and city's of our ancestor but a near 5000 year old find in a bog in Ireland would indicate we already had the wheelbarrow it also had intriguing key hole shaped teeth along the front that it is believed served to capture the long stalk's of wheat and pull there grains off that would fall into the hopper behind, finds near the remains of Celtic city's are at odd's with the roman barbarian propaganda and show sophisticated wooden roadway's and even sanitation system's as well as having a society in which there was no bar on how high a woman could climb the social ladder even to ruler.

The Indian Mahabharata lists tales of great empire's and a war between the rama (India and surrounds) empire and the Atala (the white isle at the navel of the world possibly Antarctica) empire, the Indian's had flying vehicle's simply called chariot's but with different name's for each class (Vimana means set apart and refers to the holy sanctuary in a temple - but to fly is to be set apart) and the Atalan had the velixi that were said to be superior to the Raman vehicles but a terrible war destroyed the atala and the raman survived, it also talks of a weapon called an iron thunderbolt that explodes with the light of ten thousand sun's a great fire and wind, poisons the air food and water, caused teeth and hair to fall out and the army of the indian deity that used it had to wash themselves and there equipment in the water of a river.

In all fairness I believe you have to blind ignorant or totally have your head buried in the sand to avoid the wealth of information but a good sceptic does not dismiss he analyses and give's alternative answers benefiting everyone.

I heard that glass does not decay so fast. So we need to find at least one ancient glass bottle before we can assume that there was a highly developed ancient civilization. Also a highly developed civilization means population growth. And lots of people means mass production and lots of garbage. Did anybody ever find an ancient garbage heap?

reply to post by mrkeen


Glass does decay as it is a semi liquid very high viscosity crystalline structure and is prone to atomic separation that makes it more brittle over time as well as being vulnerable and sensitive to temperature variation's that over time would break it down into grains and pressure from being buried that would also powder it.
Maybe they never followed our social model so to assume mass global consumerism is only a valid argument if they did and there waste may have been more agrarian in nature, there intelligentsia may have been held in established priesthood's or ruling elite's and there civilisation's may have been vastly older than ours in terms of longevity but I do believe that you have a good point, but remember that many time's especially in the northern hemisphere were climate has driven our mental evolution that great ice sheet's have scoured the land surface to the very bedrock and much may be lost in deep ocean deposits as well as being in area's that then were more habitable than were we are now such as lower now sub oceanic lands that the ice exposed turning these high lands into barren tundra, windswept and inhospitable.

Originally posted by mrkeen
I heard that glass does not decay so fast. So we need to find at least one ancient glass bottle before we can assume that there was a highly developed ancient civilization.

No, we don't. Why would glass be essential to a "highly developed ancient civilisation"? You cannot arbitrarily define what you mean by "civilisation" and then complain because little evidence of that arbitrary, technological knowledge has been found.

Originally posted by mrkeen
Also a highly developed civilization means population growth. And lots of people means mass production and lots of garbage. Did anybody ever find an ancient garbage heap?

No, a civilisation can be highly developed without having a large population. Lots of people does NOT mean mass production. That's only true in a consumer society. In ancient times, people made their own tools and goods. It is a serious error to assume that high technology, if it ever existed, was available to EVERYONE. It could have been kept by the elite inaccessible to the plebs in order to maintain power over them.

Of course, ancient garbage heaps have not been found. People no doubt got rid of their own refuse in their own way. It need not have been organised in the way we do today.

Your arguments have no weight because you have projected modern ideas onto ancient times in order to debunk the notion that high civilisations ever existed. What did not exist is merely your parochial understanding of what the term "high civilisation" really means.

reply to post by micpsi


He was only posting a valid question, Mahenjaro Darro and Harrap in the indus valley had a waste cupboard near the outside of there house entrance and weekly or fortnightly collection's of the waste were made (To use on there field's it is assumed), they were a very sophisticated society with multi story dwelling's and covered surface sewer's and drainage in there street's, they were not alone as such as Thera in the Mediteranean sea and several other 5000 year old site's attest.

It is possible that a advanced civilization that we could recognize may have existed but it is all dependent on how old the existence of Sentient sapient artifact using race's is on earth coupled with decay rate's and area of population, as well as other such as geological, climate factors and war,. We also have a great habit of reusing our own waste product's and as certain minerals become scarce it will become economically viable to dig up and reprocess our land fill's for precious resources the precursor of which is our current recycling culture.

All plastic item's can be made with alternative bio degradable's but will break down eventually anyway, there are certain bio organism's that metabolize plasic back into gas and water and if they find there way into land fill's what would then be left.

Concrete break's down back into its' constituent parts and we would rapidly reuse any metals ourselves if we lost the refinement ability and production say following a major global catastrophe as they would suddenly gain in value to the survivors whom could no longer produce them.

Nature would reclaim much and it has it's own way of erasing intrusive artificiality.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Enjoyed reading your ideas.

The most durable artifacts are ones made of gold and silver, specially coins and jewellery. Other metal objects can also survive long time if preserved in the rock strata.

Stone objects and glass objects are unlikely to survive a million years or more.

The gangetic plain in India is likely to contain evidence of millions of years of continuous human habitation. The silt in gangetic plain is more than 200 meters thick. There are layers upon layers of constructions and artifacts buried by flooded rivers.

The issue is where to dig? This problem can also be solved if somebody is looking. The problem is nobody is looking. Our government has no interest in history. The same with our people.

Okay, I can imagine a civilization with restricted access to knowledge and technology, but... How advanced is it then? Any sofisticated machinery needs high-precision details. This means factories, laboratories, etc. But instead we find megaliths, pyramids, moai's, etc. As for glass bottles, I think that the invention of glass is very important for an advanced civilization, because of optics, etc. Did ancient flying vehicles have no windows or cockpits? Did ancient lasers or whatever weapons they used have no lenses? And if glass is well-known, you will produce lots of bottles, because it's cheap and simple. So, optics for the priests, bottles for the peasants, binoculars for the warriors. Or sort of that. Yes, I agree that mass production is not needed, but that only holds for peaceful times. In times of war you need a lot of mass production. And according to ancient legends, there were quite some wars back then.

Originally posted by ABeing
Considering that our standard paradigm includes that Mankind, in this shape and form that we currently embody appeared about 200,000 years ago

..actually, depending on if you mean h. sapiens or h. erectus or Australopithecus, the figure is closer to 2 million years. Erectus was fairly similar to modern h. sapiens and close to archaic h.sapiens in size and form. All were capable of language and tools and had organized societies.

For example; let us imagine that we were to create a civilization, that would prosper in peace and longevity, based upon the knowledge that we have available today.

But remember, materials of today had to be built on thousands of years of other technology. You don't fall out of the trees and the next day build high tech blast furnaces and machines capable of printing 3-D parts out of plastic.

Which material would we use to construct our buildings?

Anything we pleased and had the resources for -- including aerogel, if we liked and if we developed it enough.

I haven't done much research into limestone yet, but it commonly consists of calcite, which appear to have some rather interesting properties to it and I would guess that the ancients used limestone specifically for one, or various reasons in construction, which we may or may not have figured out yet.

It was plentiful and it's a fairly soft stone that you can actually carve with low tech tools (you can scratch it with your fingernail.) It does, however, erode far more quickly than granite does.

In other words; one could question whether or not we are actually more intelligent in our approach to life now than the ancients were in regards to this point specifically.

Quite true. And much less destructive to the land.

If I am not mistaken, it wasn't until about 6,000 years ago that the first domisticated animals and genetically "altetered" plants appeared and we incorporated them into our way of life. Perhaps, if there existed a more advanced and sophisticated civilization before that, they had already realized that the Earth provides all the nutrition we need and have been from the very beginning.

Dogs were domesticated around 30,000 years ago.

If one is interested in such topics as ancient, perhaps lost civilizations, I would recommend that one do some research, specifically surrounding the myths, legends and recorded history of the following sites:

(list follows)

Interesting places and much discussed here -- sadly for your list, the time frames go from 7,000 BC (still not the oldest sites we have) up to 1500 AD (only 500 years ago.) Some of them (Lemuria) were debunked long ago (Lemuria was proposed in the 1800's to explain the distribution of lemurs and once better mapping and geology tools emerged, was quickly debunked. However, the psychics had fallen in love with the idea and kept channeling "ancient lives" from this place that actually never existed.

So, my answer is; yes, remains of our civilization could survive and be uncovered and discovered after thousands, perhaps even millions of years

Completely agree with you!

reply to post by Byrd


Hmm, I could not help but note the dismissal of mounting geological evidence supporting a lost continent in the indian ocean, maybe not lemuria but a closed mind is a barrier to further knowledge and the rest of your last comment I quite like but have a quick look at this.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

though this is probably too old for the lemur species.

and there is also Zelandia as well as several other area's, as for the Lemurs themselves they can not swim and a study of the genetic drift would be quite enlightening as a reference to species.

sometimes though we can see what may not be there still this is intriguing,.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

The valley of the king's in Egypt is built by a pyramid shaped mountain.

reply to post by Byrd


Good answers. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your reply!

Originally posted by ABeing
Considering that our standard paradigm includes that Mankind, in this shape and form that we currently embody appeared about 200,000 years ago

Originally posted by Byrd
..actually, depending on if you mean h. sapiens or h. erectus or Australopithecus, the figure is closer to 2 million years. Erectus was fairly similar to modern h. sapiens and close to archaic h.sapiens in size and form. All were capable of language and tools and had organized societies.

I hadn't considered how intelligent, whatever intelligence truly is, Erectus and Australopithecus could have been.
We know, thanks to the study of the brain that the level of intelligence in an individual is not only determined based on volume, but also the "wiring" inside of its structure, so it is entirely possible that they were quite clever; perhaps in a way so alien to us that we would fail to recognize their intelligence if we met them today. Intriguing!

While we are still on the topic of brains; the cone head-skulls found around the Andean area are rather interesting too. The majority of the skulls have been proven to have been subject to head-wrapping and other methods used to elongate the skull, but some, at least according to some researchers, are claimed to be completely natural in their shape.
If they indeed were a now extinct race of the Hominidae family, with such a large brain cavity, could it be possible that they also had greater brain volume than we have, and perhaps, even more efficient "wiring"?
I often try to imagine, in vain of course, how I would perceive reality if I had a brain around 30-50% larger in volume and how intelligent, again, whatever intelligence truly is, I would have been.
Stretching it a bit here but, what if the next step in terms of evolution is actually a conscious one and we actually would develop "psychic" abilities thanks to our greater natural understanding of physics? Possible?

Originally posted by ABeing
For example; let us imagine that we were to create a civilization, that would prosper in peace and longevity, based upon the knowledge that we have available today.

Originally posted by Byrd
But remember, materials of today had to be built on thousands of years of other technology. You don't fall out of the trees and the next day build high tech blast furnaces and machines capable of printing 3-D parts out of plastic.

I was actually trying to hint at the possibility that perhaps we experienced an intervention, or interference perhaps, by an unknown alien source. Be it non-terrestrial or Earthly in origin, but I realize that I wasn't very specific at pointing that out. My apologies.
What if; our current theory regarding the origins of civilization is not correct, and perhaps, evidence suggesting otherwise is being "swept under the rug" or ignored because of the implications such a discovery would have on the population's paradigm and the current scientific establishment? And world governments of course.
We all know the legends of the ancients. About the gods who descended from the heavens and taught Mankind about the sciences of the Universe.
Perhaps, there is some truth to these claims? I mean; let us imagine that life originated out of a primordial soup in another part of the galaxy or the Universe, long before the Earth even formed and had an evolutionary head start, say around a few dozens or hundreds of millions of years ahead of us and that the Earth was "seeded" in accordance to the panspermian theory and life arose on this planet, with the same basic DNA structure as in other parts of the Universe and an another race of "humans", if you will, managed to develop the technology granting them the ability of intergalactic travel, reaching such a sophisticated state of civilization that they then focused on trying to find the original source of life, if perhaps their planet too had been "seeded" this way and they were friendly people; is it possible that they could have found Earth and our ancestors, still struggling to establish an organized society because we hadn't stumbled upon such ideas yet, and decided that they would give us a little push forward?

I love this idea. Very much. Sorry for the wall of text.

Reply continueing...

In 1993 we dug a foundation for a house in Powahatan, Virginia.We found a draft horse shoe and a madax ax head piece. Both were made out of iron and both were in serious decay. Early Virginia started in 1609. The oldest these pieces could be was 384 years old. What ever you think would be left behind would be decayed. I suggest looking at stone art, stone monoliths, and gold objects which are inert. There are cave paintings in France which are 23 thousand years old at La Causaux. Otherwise, Mother Nature claims it all.

reply to post by Byrd

Originally posted by ABeing
I haven't done much research into limestone yet, but it commonly consists of calcite, which appear to have some rather interesting properties to it and I would guess that the ancients used limestone specifically for one, or various reasons in construction, which we may or may not have figured out yet.

Originally posted by Byrd
It was plentiful and it's a fairly soft stone that you can actually carve with low tech tools (you can scratch it with your fingernail.) It does, however, erode far more quickly than granite does.

Thank you for clearing that up. Is it possible that a limestone compilation mostly consisting of calcite could serve any kind of purpose in regards to energy, sound frequency or otherwise? Would it last longer as well then?
I should study this, but I thought perhaps you know the answers already!

Originally posted by ABeing
If I am not mistaken, it wasn't until about 6,000 years ago that the first domisticated animals and genetically "altetered" plants appeared and we incorporated them into our way of life. Perhaps, if there existed a more advanced and sophisticated civilization before that, they had already realized that the Earth provides all the nutrition we need and have been from the very beginning.

Originally posted by Byrd
Dogs were domesticated around 30,000 years ago.

I had no idea of that. Once again, thanks for clearing that up! What about plants and life-stock?
Again, I know I should do a search regarding this but it is much nicer exchanging information with you.

Originally posted by ABeing
If one is interested in such topics as ancient, perhaps lost civilizations, I would recommend that one do some research, specifically surrounding the myths, legends and recorded history of the following sites:

(list follows)

Originally posted by Byrd
Interesting places and much discussed here -- sadly for your list, the time frames go from 7,000 BC (still not the oldest sites we have) up to 1500 AD (only 500 years ago.) Some of them (Lemuria) were debunked long ago (Lemuria was proposed in the 1800's to explain the distribution of lemurs and once better mapping and geology tools emerged, was quickly debunked. However, the psychics had fallen in love with the idea and kept channeling "ancient lives" from this place that actually never existed.

Actually, from what I have heard, the elders of the Inca people claim that the gods who taught them about agriculture and other sciences came from a land called "Mu", which was swallowed by the sea much like Atlantis, or even at the same time perhaps. Some people believe that this "Mu" continent could have been the legendary Lemuria. Hence the name LeMUria.

I have not performed sufficient research into this field, honestly, so my theories may be completely off but I have dived into ancient legends and alternative archeology head first and I tend to believe that there may be something to these legends. Perhaps even the Vedic scriptures.

Also, what about the presumed water erosion on the Sphinx in Egypt? And how do you date stone?

reply to post by ABeing


In the alchemical school the search was for the philosophers stone that could change the nature of matter, this evolved into chemistry and thence physics and the name simply changed to the grand unified field theory, it will never cease as long as someone is looking because understanding everything allows the observer to fix or alter there reality, in essence it is the real philosophers stone (Nothing to do with boys on brooms thank you J.K. Rowling) the point being that will we ever be evolved enough to contain the universe in our minds and overcome quantum superposition, probably not but then never say never as anything can happen in superspace.

Still why are we looking solely at hominid species there has been ample time for other intelligent species to have evolved right here on earth.

The star child skull as it was known may be a big marker in the possibility of pre historic advance civilisation's.

www.starchildproject.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Some claim it to be a hoax but what if.

About two billion years ago the whole earth may have undergone a massive freeze over (it is known as the snowball earth theory) and at that time any advanced life form's may have had to leave the earth in order to survive or go deep underground as there entire eco system would have been eradicated together with the mass glacial destruction and the only life left was microbial but though we have no fossil evidence to support such a hypothesis there is chemical evidence in the fossil gasses stored in the remaining rocks from the time that both oxygen and carbon dioxide were present so something may have been keeping them in balance through respiration.

reply to post by LABTECH767


I understand your point completely, and in regards to the Starchild skull; I follow Mr. Pye's development in his testing of it with anticipation. If anything, it is certainly anomalous and I truly believe that it is not simply deformed.

As stated in post above; I often try to imagine how I would perceive reality if I would be a few, or many percent more intelligent above the standards of human geniuses and I certainly believe that I then possibly could develop an understanding of how to alter physics if my level of intelligence allowed me to fit that much knowledge into my head.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
like the Dogon tribe of Africa they knew the Sirius system to be a binary star system 'HOW',

If the Dogon knew at all that Sirius is binary, they learned it from Griaule, who is the originator of this claim. That's what the Dogon themselves say, anyway.

I maintain they didn't know that much. But, even if they did, they were not an isolated tribe. Europe knew before Griaule that Sirius was binary. Hundreds of Dogon fought alongside the allies in WWI.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
In many ancient ruins smooth ground lenses made of ruby and sapphire have been found and it is now believed they may been used in early telescope's long before they were supposedly invented.

There are probably people that do believe this, but they are ignorant.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
China had a very great wealth of information, maybe even more than the great library of Alexandria but along came emperor chin after whom we call it china, now he had ALL scholars and historians put to death except the doctor's and astrologer's thereby cementing his place as the first emperor of all china (Who was he writing out of history, hmm.) and though it is very problematic to the classical view of Chinese history when they were excavating the terracotta army they came across the almost perfect remains of a sword that the looters whom deposed the chin dynasty after his death missed when the raided his tomb for weapon's, it had lost the handle to the damp soil but the blade was coated in a micron thin layer of chromium and was sharp enough to cut a silk handkerchief after being in the ground for over two thousand year's, undoubtedly knowledge that was lost in chin's purges.

Qin's burnings are indeed a great loss, but probably not as great as you think.

Chinese writing only began around 1500 BC. Qin burned the books just after 250 BC (or so.)

It is thought that most of what he burned were philosophical tracts concerning proper government, but we can't be sure (obviously.)

However, we do know that there are folktales and histories that date back to before Qin. Books that were not burned, etc.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
The Indian Mahabharata lists tales of great empire's and a war between the rama (India and surrounds) empire and the Atala (the white isle at the navel of the world possibly Antarctica) empire,

Not quite:

The Kurukshetra War was, according to the Indian epic poem Mahābhārata, a conflict that arose from a dynastic succession struggle between two groups of North Western Indian Kingdoms called Kuru, the Kauravs and Pandavs, for the throne of Hastinapura. It involved a number of ancient kingdoms participating as allies of the rival groups.They called themselves Aryan, which initially started as an ethical term for nobility in the Indian Subcontinent, but was later used to represent a race by many western Indologists.

Atala was the name for the "seven heavens" of the afterlife, with one of the seven also having the name Atala. They were beneath the Earth's surface.

In one instance, and only one, Atlala (the heaven) is called "the white island." This descriptor appears to be more poetical than it is descriptive.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
the Indian's had flying vehicle's simply called chariot's but with different name's for each class (Vimana means set apart and refers to the holy sanctuary in a temple - but to fly is to be set apart) and the Atalan had the velixi that were said to be superior to the Raman vehicles but a terrible war destroyed the atala and the raman survived, it also talks of a weapon called an iron thunderbolt that explodes with the light of ten thousand sun's a great fire and wind, poisons the air food and water, caused teeth and hair to fall out and the army of the indian deity that used it had to wash themselves and there equipment in the water of a river.

Well...

That's enough for me, if you believe all that. It's not worth my effort.

I can tell you this - I've never found any ancient source that mentions the vailixi (that's the correct spelling.)

I suspect it is a modern fabrication.

Harte

reply to post by ABeing


This is just a reply to your thought's and may go slightly off thread but it is in the vein of the thinking here though it philosophical in nature rather than scientific.

What if the brain is just a complex biological computer and interface but on higher dimension's we also exist (call it spirit or energy but it is consciousness itself) then would it not be plausible to assume there may be already vastly higher civilisation right here and now that we are simply not evolved enough to be aware of, they are not interested in communicating in the same way as a philosopher does not sit and debate with toddlers but one day if we reach that state maybe then we will understand, of course this is simply a strange bit of musing but?.
How many UFO and ET incident's have demonstrated vastly improbably and even spiritual elements that are beyond the witness ability to clearly rationalize and are we merely looking for the patterns written in the sand pit at the start of the day after all the other kids have played there and now its our turn.

Remember when they built Norad there were rumours that they used pre existent tunnels and in Washington state a site that was supposedly sacred to native Americans was taken over as an army base which there were supposedly story's of a metal pyramid sticking out of the ground that is now no longer there.

Of course the new agers of the 1960's and 70's created a market for these story's so we have to try to sift the truth from the imaginary and even our own minds can play tricks often based on our own perceived notion's.

reply to post by Harte


I am sorry to upset you and value your insight as I believe it to be truly in good hearted interest and most usually correct, what I have mentioned I read a long time ago but I must disagree with you on these point's.

As for the lenses,

www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk...

(Think I will leave the epic of Gilgamesh out of this one and the ranks of shining silver chariots that battle in the sky from the ninevan cuneiform clay scrolls and tablet's)

The Vimanika Shaestrum (sorry for the spelling, please anyone correct it) Is, I believe the book that best describles the flying Vimana but though like yourself I am a Christian I do believe there is room for a much older earth than pure doctrinal creationism would allow and after all it was christ whom said there is nothing new under the sun.

Remember the Mahabharata was traditionally past down not by text but by perfectly recited linguistic tradition and when it was translated into English in the late 1800's it contained such information as to how to build a flying chariot, "It's body must be stiff and wing's must not flap, the whirlwind must be placed at the front with the mercury engine to fire it the furnace heating the mercury to drive the whirlwind (sounds like a cross between a heat exchange gas powered drive system and a by plane to me) this was one vimana and not a flying saucer,.

Now maybe the sources I have read are not up to academic scrutiny but they are the only sources out there and it is all in the interpretation of the data.

Once again I have the ultimate respect for your conviction and accept your great knowledge to be invaluable as if anything you have had at your disposal greater assets and more time to investigate this niche.

As for Chinese writing,

www.chinapage.com...

And you know as well as I that the true origin of any Nazi disc technology (though I doubt they had it or if they did could not replicate it) comes from the battle over Nuremburg in 1560 AD. and probable Nazi excavation of the downed craft.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Still dis information is great when you do not want the Russians or Chinese to know what you have so you create alien visitor's a crash at Roswell (if you think they may have more than you) amongst other thing's.

It is a tangle of deceit and lie's but as the Christian bible say's the truth will set you free.

Were the veilixi are concerned I heard that from another source and as I am not reader of Sanskrit can not comment in any worthy fashion or support the sources I read it from. My hat is off to you heart but please reconsider your opinion on the lenses and there are much older rock murals that MAY be of dogon tradition that show Sirius as a binary star though they were probably exposed to earlier missionary's whom may have past it on to them.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
As for the lenses,

www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk...

(Think I will leave the epic of Gilgamesh out of this one and the ranks of shining silver chariots that battle in the sky from the ninevan cuneiform clay scrolls and tablet's)

Polished glass or crystal pieces were created and glued to the eyes of statuary to make them look more realistic.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
The Vimanika Shaestrum (sorry for the spelling, please anyone correct it) Is, I believe the book that best describles the flying Vimana but though like yourself I am a Christian I do believe there is room for a much older earth than pure doctrinal creationism would allow and after all it was christ whom said there is nothing new under the sun.

That book was "channelled" in the mid 1900's. It is not an ancient work, though it takes its name from a supposed ancient text that has never been found, but is mentioned in other ancient texts.

No, your best source for vimanas is the Mahabharata, or the Ramayana.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
Remember the Mahabharata was traditionally past down not by text but by perfectly recited linguistic tradition and when it was translated into English in the late 1800's it contained such information as to how to build a flying chariot, "It's body must be stiff and wing's must not flap, the whirlwind must be placed at the front with the mercury engine to fire it the furnace heating the mercury to drive the whirlwind (sounds like a cross between a heat exchange gas powered drive system and a by plane to me) this was one vimana and not a flying saucer,.

Sorry, the quote you give above is supposed to be from the Samarangana Sutradhara, a different text - not the Mahabharata.
I've long wanted to verify what is stated in that text, but the Samarangana Sutradhara is not available in an English translation.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
And you know as well as I that the true origin of any Nazi disc technology (though I doubt they had it or if they did could not replicate it) comes from the battle over Nuremburg in 1560 AD. and probable Nazi excavation of the downed craft.

Never happened.

What's shown in the woodcutting, made many years later, reflects the style of the artist. Most of his works look like that.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
Were the veilixi are concerned I heard that from another source and as I am not reader of Sanskrit can not comment in any worthy fashion or support the sources I read it from. My hat is off to you heart but please reconsider your opinion on the lenses and there are much older rock murals that MAY be of dogon tradition that show Sirius as a binary star though they were probably exposed to earlier missionary's whom may have past it on to them.

edit on 22-4-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

In fact, the Dogon themselves state that Griaule, the sociologist that first claimed that the Dogon knew about Sirius, was the one that told them about the binary.

Who are we to believe here - the people about whom the claim was made, or the person who published the claim?

I think the Dogon know themselves better than Griaule did.

I wouldn't have a problem with the lens if there were no other known use for it. But, like I said, there is.

Maybe it was made to magnify, for some old guy with failing eyesite (like me.) But we simply have no evidence that would indicate this, while we do have ancient statues with similar lenses still glued on their eyes.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Thank you, I did not know the book was channelled I would never have mentioned it if I had and I agree the Dogon are the only correct authority on there own history, I 'think' I got that one from Charles Berlitz Atlantis I read as a young teenager and sent my imagination soaring, I accept I am wrong on them therefore but I still do have my doubt's about the lenses, what you say about the statue's is 100 though, I remember many year's ago watching a documentary in which a young German reporter (I think he was German anyway I remember he was blonde) was able to bribe member's of a secret cult in Syria to allow him to see there hidden temple. I don't remember what sent him down that particular investigative path, he was led blind folded into the mountains outside there small town and up a dry wade, in an elbow of the wade were it turned left going up he was led to a pile of stone's that he had to literally climb on his belly to pass under then for a good distance still on his belly before he was able to stand, he entered a black chamber with polished walls inside the mountain and there in front of him was a sarcophagus sized alter and behind on a daze a black rearing cobra over 8 feet tall with ruby disks for eye's, he filmed it secretly and was told that the people were Islamic but there ancestors had made a pact with Shaitan and were chosen to oppose Israel, they feared braking the pact as anyone whom tried encountered misfortune and admitted there ancestors had sacrificed children to the idol but claimed they only offered goat's, the only other thing I remember was it was in the 1970's and he took a shot of the town at dusk with three minaret's.

Because I had stayed up late at night and hid behind the couch so see the television it gave me nightmare's as well, sadly my memory is not so sharp and despite the archaeological significance I would be inclined to destroy that place though it is probably not the artefact's but the worshipers that are the worrying thing.

I always remember seeing that as it looked like a statue of the Egyptian deity set.

It was a very long time ago I saw that and was only a kid so what part of Syria it was I do not know but religion's good and bad are also tied to ancient civilisation at least were humanity is concerned.

That is one religion I would never have any time for though.