Genesis 2: 21-22 - Why God Chose Adam's Rib to make Eve

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by WashMoreFeet
reply to post by WashMoreFeet

 

Do you have an 'X' chromosome?

akushla99
...and it isn't as if there aren't inadvertant clues left behind...gauche oversights, really...
Jenny 1:27...there ain't no mention of clay and ribs!
Jenny 2:7...2nd 'creation' of man...specifically 'formation' from 'dust of the ground'...(where's the lady, now?)...
Jenny 2:21/22/23...so now, A is alone?!...and a rib is used to 'make' E...
Interesting diversion...marrow is a great place to get DNA from...the tibia might have been a better choice, but, it was the rib that was used...whoever wrote this, either had a knowledge of this type of technology, or was standing next to someone who did!...

It is a very interesting diversion, puzzles upon more puzzles. I would say the one standing nearby was (God) observing the 4D genetists doing what they do best; Creating lifeforms that can exist upon this planet specific and oh boy what a wonderland they created.

akushla99
It begs more important questions...Would an omnipotent, omniscient almighty G utilise crude recent technology, after having a) 'made man in THEIR own image' (unspecified process) b)...then 'forming' man from the 'dust of the ground'? There is another anomolous entry in the account...Jenny 2:7 'and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.' Presumably in Jenny 1:27, there was no 'breath of life', and consequently did not have a 'living' soul?!

The problem is not in creating form; accomplished, it was the task of 'animating' it. There seems to be no reason or explaination other than the 'breathing' of life into the form causing the form to have a living soul spirit yet failed this process. So what is to be concluded. It obviously happened. Where did spirit come from to animate exactly; did God portion out parts of itself (its radioactive energy) to accomplish this?

akushla99
There appears, on the surface, to be 3 'creations' of man...the last of which involves the use of a technology only 'invented' in recent times...the first, where 'the breath of life' has not been used...and the second where 'dust of the ground' (carbon atoms?) is used....and a glaring oversight exists in Jenny 1:26/27
...narrative appears to change from many, to, one...1:26 'in our image'...1:27 'in his image'...

That technology occured within the last 3 million years, so according to evolutionary records a footstep within the eyeblink of the galaxy/universe creation. Carbon based lifeform we are. The "in our image, in his image" is a big problem; it for me is the OUR factor. Who comprises 'the other constituants OUR' along with God?

reply to post by akushla99


A99, looks like we agree that there is more to the narrative than just what is at face value, but I maintain that it is a narrative and not an esoteric codified... um, codex/manuscript/folio - what ever it is called. I suppose one has to decide where the line between literary interpretation, allegory and going even further is. I don't go as far as allegory, the north African church did in the early centuries. They are gone, some will say this is a shame and an indication of the Western/Roman church's imperialistic tendency to wipe out (or not assist) all other interpretations other than their own, others will say that it was the will of God that their theology was not preserved and the Western was because their take on it was wrong. I think they were/are both wrong and if you want to know God's word then ask Him. I think I am wrong in some ways too. But my biggest think is that it doesn't matter what you know it's who you know. Know Jesus/God, not his teachings or creation. But like I said, that could be the wrong take. maybe God is a judge sitting on his throne deciding whether you believe "the truth" or not and beating you with a big stick if you don't and granting you access to heaven if you do.

I googled Jenny 2:17 and variations but there is nothing on it, I did understand what you wrote, but my question was an inquisitive "why"?
Peace

Originally posted by Cinrad
reply to post by akushla99

 

We agree that there is more to the narrative than just what is at face value, but I maintain that it is a narrative and not an esoteric codified... um, codex/manuscript/folio - what ever it is called. I suppose one has to decide where the line between literary interpretation, allegory and going even further is. I don't as far a allegory, the north African church did in the early centuries. They are gone, some will say this is a shame and an indication of the Western/Roman church's imperialistic tendency to wipe out (or not assist) all other interpretations other than their own, others will say that it was the will of God that their theology was not preserved and the Western was. I think they were/are both wrong and if you want to know God's word then ask Him.

A more or less direct plug into the exchange is not out of the bounds of possibility (an angel told me so)...
The interpretations you nominate are self-referential (bordering on the incestuous)...conflict of interest issues...they are better set against some of the more poetic cosmologies to find concordances (they actually make more sense)...there is no escaping the quandary produced by insisting (on the one hand) that some of these stories are as near to verbatim (therefore able to be literally taken), and, parabalic or completely metaphysically inspired.
The why, (I agree) is the more important issue, but has been subsumed by the fact that the story (as told) is far too clipped and condensed to be taken literally, and yet, it's a nice story (never mind that the narrative suffers from incomplete and jagged notions)...literary devices, or not...

Cheers

A99

Originally posted by AmberLeaf
Why did god not just create eve as he created adam with no problems....why invent a surgery when he could have just created her out of thin air?

Because that was part of His way of sanctifying the union between man and woman through marriage. Every marriage ceremony since then has symbolized that very first marriage; the man and the woman are joined in union, under the authority of God.

The rib, taken from Adam's side, also signifies how man and woman must both stand as equal partners throughout their marriage. The woman is not to be above her husband, or below him. The husband is not to be above his wife, or below her. While the man, according to God's order, is the head of the household, at the same time he is not the "boss" of the woman. They are to both manage the household on equal ground with each other.

reply to post by Cinrad


"I googled Jenny 2:17 and variations but there is nothing on it, I did understand what you wrote, but my question was an inquisitive "why"?" Quote Cinrad

If anything, you have provided the first request for Jenny 2:17 lol...

A: Codification

If yucn rd ths, weundrstndeechother (cos this aint the english language, is it?)

Peace

A99

I believe its a little bit deeper than that. This last translation is perverse. You also have to keep in mind that this isn't the first time it has suffered from this. From my humble understanding, you have to understand a little Hebrew in order to understand the message that is being put forth in genesis, or the whole bible for that matter.

We tend to get carried away with literal translation and this can lead to a whole plethora of different types of confusion. I am not fluent in Hebrew, but I was taught the original name for Adam is ,Dm' which is actually referring to a 'ruddy' tribe and not an actual person, and even more clearly, not the first person.

In nature we know that everything comes from a woman, so I am not clear to what the symbolic message may be. In essence, lets just imagine Adam being the first man, but our current definition of man is not congruent with the ancient definition of man. So this will make a lot of sense, in the given scenario. This in turn could be an act of another previous 'immaculate conception". I don't know. I just wanted to throw that scenario out there. But it sounds perfect, from 'her' rib. But I'm not certain. It could be about the reformation of one thing and the extraction of its essence to create its polar opposite.??.?

I am certain that the feminine aspect of the universe is totally ignored in European theology, even though we know Christianity's origins do not begin there. We know that everything sacred and spiritual about the woman was covered up and lied about. These are just facts or these are how these facts appear to me.

I really appreciate the bible because depending on your level of understanding it can offer a multitude of things. It has accurate historical accounts regarding some of the first civilization such as Kush, Kemet(egypt), Sumer, and many others among many other things as well.

Great post, I do believe there is more to Genesis than we are aware of. I have a copy of a translation that was done from Hebrew to English by a regular ole joe, and it suggest a whole different picture than what is currently offered to us.

peace and blessings.

reply to post by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS


"We tend to get carried away with literal translation and this can lead to a whole plethora of different types of confusion. I am not fluent in Hebrew, but I was taught the original name for Adam is ,Dm' which is actually referring to a 'ruddy' tribe and not an actual person, and even more clearly, not the first person." quote AKINOFTHEFIRSTSTARS

This is important!
...and speaks directly to the issue (pardon the pun) of the schism between creationism and evolution...

The writers would have been in a compromising position (or they were instructed) if, there was not more than a few godlike acts included, to match (at least) the creation of a planetary system in this small corner of created worlds...
...OR, the series of events outlined has become so crushed and compressed that it was decided to precis the story so no-one would get bored - both serve their purpose...

...the 'first-person plural' accounts are harder to cover...but are a clue to what went on (not all of it nefarious)...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


You still have to consider the 'animation factor' what it is where it came from what drives it, how is it transmuted and if Walt had anything to do with it. This entire genre of the 40s was his bible or his way of describing your existance in a very childish way You realize that everything ties together from the mundane to the quixotal. ALL OF IT, like threads creating a whole. Generally the more one looks to the humor driven right there in the face, the answers reveal themselves without questioning. Your Faith that you wake up tomorrow is a key frame by frame slow motion, rememberance, fast forward, rewind. Animation Cell by Cell by Cell stop/forward motion animation flipping through your fingers or on a reel 8, 16 millimeter by the second. TIME. We are 72 percent makeup of water, salinified, we carry an electrical charge heart driven. We would electrocute ourselves except for the salt in our blood that nuetralizes. What drives the heart to beat, a radioactive isotope miniscule but there none the less the God factor that drives your beingness or the God Partical that some have completely misunderstood.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
reply to post by akushla99

 

You still have to consider the 'animation factor' what it is where it came from what drives it, how is it transmuted and if Walt had anything to do with it. This entire genre of the 40s was his bible or his way of describing your existance in a very childish way You realize that everything ties together from the mundane to the quixotal. ALL OF IT, like threads creating a whole. Generally the more one looks to the humor driven right there in the face, the answers reveal themselves without questioning. Your Faith that you wake up tomorrow is a key frame by frame slow motion, rememberance, fast forward, rewind. Cell by Cell by Cell stop/forward motion animation flipping through your fingers or on a reel 8, 16 millimeter by the second. TIME.

edit on 15-4-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Matryoschka dolls with 'built-in' micro switches (some not flesh&bone, but made of rarer stuff)...'the breath of life' is the transition to 3D (isneyland)...infusion of spirit module (back then) was dependant on the integrity of the inbuilt dolls...now though, we have individual 'handlers' working (in the beginning/end zones) with us in the operation...Matryoschka dolls having been perfected...evolution all but peter (panned) out, for us...

A99

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
reply to post by akushla99

 

Matryoschka dolls with 'built-in' micro switches (some not flesh&bone, but made of rarer stuff)...'the breath of life' is the transition to 3D (isneyland)...infusion of spirit module (back then) was dependant on the integrity of the inbuilt dolls...now though, we have individual 'handlers' working (in the beginning/end zones) with us in the operation...Matryoschka dolls having been perfected...evolution all but peter (panned) out, for us...

So, large to small or small to large. How many nested dolls can fit in one humans cupped hands; as many as are architectually;structurally suited/sound the smallest by microscopic extraction technique. If reaches a quantum leap become sentient. Makes me think of the infinite cube, fractal geometry outside edges visible but the interior never ending because it turns itself inside out and repeats. I think as well we are as perfected as can be (sans the feathered wings), and who is championing which team into the endzone? There have to be at least two Coaches and defensive, offensive coordinators (unless we are playing 4 square, double dutch jumprope or tetherball). The noble idea of "The Disney" (wished to preserve as closely as possible the "live" action animation of the mammal as a machine forever institutionalized) to create theme parks showcasing mechanical humans is outstanding; remember the human, does he know something I dont know? Or whom the future audience might consist of? Ticket Gate prices go through the roof if Abe Lincoln walks off of that stage and proclaims "I AM ALIVE".

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS

We tend to get carried away with literal translation and this can lead to a whole plethora of different types of confusion. I am not fluent in Hebrew, but I was taught the original name for Adam is ,Dm' which is actually referring to a 'ruddy' tribe and not an actual person, and even more clearly, not the first person.
In nature we know that everything comes from a woman, so I am not clear to what the symbolic message may be. In essence, lets just imagine Adam being the first man, but our current definition of man is not congruent with the ancient definition of man. So this will make a lot of sense, in the given scenario. This in turn could be an act of another previous 'immaculate conception". I don't know. I just wanted to throw that scenario out there. But it sounds perfect, from 'her' rib. But I'm not certain. It could be about the reformation of one thing and the extraction of its essence to create its polar opposite.??.?

Not to ever be taken literally (how does that happen unless someone is standing at a pulpit explaining it to you). This is meant to be a personal communication to/with you, without the interpretation of others denoting meaning upon you force fed ROTE. Adam has many names in many cultures. Dm is a first for me. A 'Ruddy' tribe would mean those made of clay. In nature everything comes from an idea of the perfection of the Fibiconi (SP) Spiral its geometry repeated in so many differenciated forms. You are saying the Eve senario of HER rib creates the Adam is the more likely, and is the precursor to the 'immaculate conception' boomerang but no one knows it?

reply to post by vethumanbeing


"If reaches a quantum leap become sentient." quote VHB

...level before sentience?...do we have creatures/living organisms that do not have a quality that (admittedly, from our POV) does not exhibit sentience?

...level before sentience, perhaps 'inanimate'?...or doll shell not installed with/for sentience? (the kind we relate to, at least)...

...thinking (prodded), bad, bad illustration...bear with me...
4 throated carb (installed), does not 'kick in', except under certain circumstances...or maybe turbo boost needs the revs up...
So...shell installed, but, does not 'reach speed'...known by handlers to not reach speed, therefore, more tweaking required...

Built from dirt, with a breath of life, infused with spirit and tweaked to the Nth...

Wings as a vestige memory of the journey between experience worlds...encapsulated by the carriers who wrap themselves around you for the journey through the tunnelled circuits between loci...nah, we don't need 'em...(or if god wanted us to fly, he'da given us wings)...

Pertinent, Abe...especially given the material I have been reading over the last 20 years...the question of sentience 'infusion' (specifically of the spiritual kind) may be faked...but to what end for the cyborg?...none, it seems...consciousness download happens on the wall of the uterus - as the constituent parts grow and expand, so does the consciousness (present before constituent material bits have been assembled in the blood and guts lab)...

It's the 'newer model' model (clumsy!)...evolution happened so all bits could have thier frayed edges smoothed...

Then, there was the Blue-ring Binder wrecking crews...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


No.

Your thought is convoluted with deception. What you think is bringing you closer to Truth is, in reality, leading you further away. Until you see whatever mode of understanding you are currently wasting your time with for what it truly is, which is basically diversionary tactics at its best, you are incapable of true Wisdom and understanding incorruptible truth.
All incorruptible truth is wonderfully simple in Its complexity. All deception contains just enough of that truth to lead their prey astray. You have been led astray, my friend.

Originally posted by WashMoreFeet
reply to post by akushla99

 

No.

Your thought is convoluted with deception. What you think is bringing you closer to Truth is, in reality, leading you further away. Until you see whatever mode of understanding you are currently wasting your time with for what it truly is, which is basically diversionary tactics at its best, you are incapable of true Wisdom and understanding incorruptible truth.
All incorruptible truth is wonderfully simple in Its complexity. All deception contains just enough of that truth to lead their prey astray. You have been led astray, my friend.

Which part is 'convoluted with deception'?...none of it is the gospel according to A99...and/or, just when you thought you'd found the WHOLE truth - there was more...only, it served only as a platform for what was/is to come next...

I'm so glad you have found 'THE TRUTH'...the one, at least, that compels you to believe you stand at the top of the mountain looking down...

THE TRUTH is stranger than my (apparent) fiction...you ain't seen the half of it...

Chill out now brother/sister...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


I stand at the bottom looking up. That is why I have a clear view of all who have fallen before me. I am no better than anyone else. The only thing that sets me apart is that I have, in fact, found The Truth. Such a notion is overwhelmingly offensive to everyone who has not, or worse, think they have and it is simply a subtle counterfeit with the sole purpose of leading them away from the real thing.

Those who exhibit indignation at the notion of there only being ONE Truth, of which very few truly find, are those traveling the broad path, blinded by the delusions of self-made religion or empty ethereal experiences.

I don't say these things to be mean, I say them because they are the truth. Those whom are most disturbed by it, are those most deluded by deception.

Originally posted by WashMoreFeet
reply to post by akushla99

 

I stand at the bottom looking up. That is why I have a clear view of all who have fallen before me. I am no better than anyone else. The only thing that sets me apart is that I have, in fact, found The Truth. Such a notion is overwhelmingly offensive to everyone who has not, or worse, think they have and it is simply a subtle counterfeit with the sole purpose of leading them away from the real thing.

Those who exhibit indignation at the notion of there only being ONE Truth, of which very few truly find, are those traveling the broad path, blinded by the delusions of self-made religion or empty ethereal experiences.

I don't say these things to be mean, I say them because they are the truth. Those whom are most disturbed by it, are those most deluded by deception.

Then...move along...nothing to see...

What you say may not be mean...but smacks of a passive/agressive self-importance...
Remember the self important, once favorite of God? Claiming exclusive truth, is what that favorite did...and IT is paying with, personality lobotomy...
Don't get fooled by your own ignorance...then you are no better than a rabid athiest...

Specifically, how does what you say about your own truth relate to Genesis?

Seems you have diverted...

A99

Originally posted by WashMoreFeet
reply to post by akushla99

 

No.

Your thought is convoluted with deception. What you think is bringing you closer to Truth is, in reality, leading you further away. Until you see whatever mode of understanding you are currently wasting your time with for what it truly is, which is basically diversionary tactics at its best, you are incapable of true Wisdom and understanding incorruptible truth.
All incorruptible truth is wonderfully simple in Its complexity. All deception contains just enough of that truth to lead their prey astray. You have been led astray, my friend.

If these are personal truths, ie self determinant how can they be deceptive. If so, what a wicked game God is inflicting on its PERSONAL playtoy, that thing which is human. Who for you defines the uncorruptible truth? NOT YOU surely as you just expressed doubt in others convictions and that doubt seeded originally somewhere within your highly unique (as an individual) creative expression. It is the complex (ALL THINGS considered) that is simple. Not the other other way around. So you quote the old adage; "A little bit of knowledge is dangerous" as your truth. Define the deciever its prey and its ultimate purpose; then we will know whom to avoid at potencial run-ins on the Cocktail circuit.

Originally posted by akushla99
reply to post by vethumanbeing


"If reaches a quantum leap become sentient." quote VHB

akushla99
...level before sentience?...do we have creatures/living organisms that do not have a quality that (admittedly, from our POV) does not exhibit sentience?
...level before sentience, perhaps 'inanimate'?...or doll shell not installed with/for sentience? (the kind we relate to, at least)...

Level at sentient conciousness. Like a stabbing searing sharp pain of awareness at the moment of acquiring. First intake of breath as a newborn is the soul/spirit entering the body; no wonder its always a screaming tearful cry. Those that do not exhibit sentience but have it none the less, only because they dont "appear" to be animate objects because to your senses they seem/are inanimate.

akushla99
...thinking (prodded), bad, bad illustration...bear with me...
4 throated carb (installed), does not 'kick in', except under certain circumstances...or maybe turbo boost needs the revs up...So...shell installed, but, does not 'reach speed'...known by handlers to not reach speed, therefore, more tweaking required...Built from dirt, with a breath of life, infused with spirit and tweaked to the Nth...
Wings as a vestige memory of the journey between experience worlds...encapsulated by the carriers who wrap themselves around you for the journey through the tunnelled circuits between loci...nah, we don't need 'em...(or if god wanted us to fly, he'da given us wings)...

Carbon based 4 throated or 4 stomached awareness kicks in at some degree, a tipping point secret, and seems to be mostly of an instinctual nature for self survival only. NOT SELF AWARE, that is all for the human, or Bottle nosed dolphin to figure out (some say the African Grey Parrot possesses it). Built from carbon, breaths, infused with a basic spirit form that processes radioactivity (energy powerhouse battery without electrocuting itself, water construct). I like your idea of vestigal wings representing a journey, and for me, are the one thing this body lacks that would make travel more enjoyable, although tailering clothing to accomidate would be a whole new problem.

akushla99
Pertinent, Abe...especially given the material I have been reading over the last 20 years...the question of sentience 'infusion' (specifically of the spiritual kind) may be faked...but to what end for the cyborg?...none, it seems...consciousness download happens on the wall of the uterus - as the constituent parts grow and expand, so does the consciousness (present before constituent material bits have been assembled in the blood and guts lab)...It's the 'newer model' model (clumsy!)...evolution happened so all bits could have thier frayed edges smoothed...Then, there was the Blue-ring Binder wrecking crews...

A cyborg, or an Abe-like artificial being. I would imagine any sentient awareness would naturally be that of survival "IS THERE ENOUGH HYDROLIC FLUID", where are my Techs? It could be I am looking at repeated motion; Auto assembly line robots in a different way. I look at large scale road construction back hoe/heavy equipment operaters and wonder if they are not imbueing their machines with a primitive form of awareness day after day repetitions. Id never thought of a uterus as a lab (and it is the best petri dish ever). The conciousness must download in this way--through the DNA coding of the blood (combined) parentally. I am the newer and better recreated model of my parents. The blue D-ring binder "proceedural manual" occasionally is taken home by fired employees and someone forgot to restock those lost. WHAT?

reply to post by vethumanbeing


"A cyborg, or an Abe-like artificial being. I would imagine any sentient awareness would naturally be that of survival "IS THERE ENOUGH HYDROLIC FLUID", where are my Techs? It could be I am looking at repeated motion; Auto assembly line robots in a different way. I look at large scale road construction back hoe/heavy equipment operaters and wonder if they are not imbueing their machines with a primitive form of awareness day after day repetitions. Id never thought of a uterus as a lab (and it is the best petri dish ever). The conciousness must download in this way--through the DNA coding of the blood (combined) parentally. I am the newer and better recreated model of my parents. The blue D-ring binder "proceedural manual" occasionally is taken home by fired employees and someone forgot to restock those lost. WHAT?" Quote VHB

HA HA...thats good...the lost blue D-ring binders...

...and DNA (Led Zeppelin - stairway to heaven), seems to fit that 'no-info loss'...mmm...bridgeing agent between material and less than material, required to be injected into the host carapace-matryoschka matrix.
The rib was an interesting addition to the story - (sideline)...jesus being pierced in the ribs at the crucifixion show...could be nothing?!
The Gen. story suffers (in my humble opinion)...I'd have liked to see/read how a more expanded version was handled by novice origamiers...if we thought it was oversimplified now...

A99

Originally posted by akushla99
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

"A cyborg, or an Abe-like artificial being. I would imagine any sentient awareness would naturally be that of survival "IS THERE ENOUGH HYDROLIC FLUID", where are my Techs? It could be I am looking at repeated motion; Auto assembly line robots in a different way. I look at large scale road construction back hoe/heavy equipment operaters and wonder if they are not imbueing their machines with a primitive form of awareness day after day repetitions. Id never thought of a uterus as a lab (and it is the best petri dish ever). The conciousness must download in this way--through the DNA coding of the blood (combined) parentally. I am the newer and better recreated model of my parents. The blue D-ring binder "proceedural manual" occasionally is taken home by fired employees and someone forgot to restock those lost. WHAT?" Quote VHB

HA HA...thats good...the lost blue D-ring binders......and DNA (Led Zeppelin - stairway to heaven), seems to fit that 'no-info loss'...mmm...bridgeing agent between material and less than material, required to be injected into the host carapace-matryoschka matrix.
The rib was an interesting addition to the story - (sideline)...jesus being pierced in the ribs at the crucifixion show...could be nothing?!
The Gen. story suffers (in my humble opinion)...I'd have liked to see/read how a more expanded version was handled by novice origamiers...if we thought it was oversimplified now...

In the Masonic tradition the 1st phase or trial of 3 is a ladder to heaven that Job has to climb blocked by esoteric things as a chalice..the material must dematerialize to become one with its creator, life and death, dust to dust. It is truely amazing the many ways the material becomes etherial (so many valid discriptions thereof). The rib was pierced by a Roman Soldiers lancet, blood of Christ soaks a roman weapon. I would interpret that as a blessing to and for the Roman Catholic Church to proceed in its conquering of lessor third world nations. HAIL Simon Peter--HAIL PAUL as you created the new abomination. The Genesis story is overlooked because it has become knee jerk formulai. Lets pull apart "Mary Had A Little Lamb, Its Fleece As White As Snow" instead. Genesis is overkill to nothing determined. Who (other than myself would take its tenents line by line) to discredit. Someone mentions Thomas, Im there, but only hear crickets in response (not my query; theirs). Genesis, simplify it or origami it. Somehow the resulting truth will come out nuetralized.