Global warming is epic

reply to post by inverslyproportional

I like to promise myself to at least try to keep this stuff constructive and polite, I really do... I'd like to focus on denying ignorance rather than constantly engaging it through pointless pissing contests.

But man it's hard to do that when members like this keep insisting on hijacking every one of these conversations with absolutely belligerent and moronic arrogance.

It's not the fact that you are totally ignorant on this subject. It happens. It's what a complete a-hole you insist on being about it. Thumping your chest in every thread lately, talking down to other members about how little they know, when everything you're posting is oblivious nonsense. Just a bunch of inane denier talking points that have absolutely no factual basis, but people like you keep regurgitating because they conform to your political ideology.


I've ignored your posts in a few threads now, thinking it's the best way to deal with such far-gone fanatical ignorance, but clearly not feeding the troll isn't helping much here:

I also notice not one of you brainiacs, has yet to address what I have stated, as it is all true, and all debunks your religion.

At least your smart enough not to ooen your mouth about it, and remove all diubts about your intelligence levels.

Baby wants his medicine. So let's go...

1 a singke volcanic eruption releases more co2 than man has in his entire existence, correct? I hooe you agree as itnis a fact.

No it is a ridiculous myth, fed by deniers and swallowed whole by wannabe skeptics who know nothing about actual skepticism.

On average, human activities put out in just three to five days, the equivalent amount of carbon dioxide that volcanoes produce globally each year.

Source: USGS

Put another way:

- Human activities emit roughly 135 times as much climate-warming carbon dioxide as volcanoes each year.

- Volcanoes emit less than cars and trucks, and less, even, than cement production.

Source - Discovery News: Humans Dwarf Volcanoes for CO2 Emissions

So honestly, could you have been any more wrong about that one lol?

Next...

2 every day more co2 is released from rotting lant matter than man has made in his entire exisence, correct? I hope you agree as this is a fact.

First off - what exactly is rotting 'lant' matter? If you're going to insult other peoples' intelligence in every post can you try to at least proof read your own brash stupidity? Your spelling and grammar are downright embarrassing.

Second - this is once again just totally beyond wrong:

Human emissions since industrial revolution: over 3.6 TRILLION tonnes

Source - Carbon Clock

Annual emissions from rotting plant matter: 60 billion tonnes

Source - NASA: The Carbon Cycle

So that means "every day" decomposing "lants" actually release about 0.000046 of total human CO2 emissions. Hyperbole much?

3 of all the co2 in the atmosphere man is replsponsible for only a tenthousandth of that value, correct? I hope you agree, as it is a fact.

By now I hope YOU can agree your "facts" are a mean joke being played on you. Since natural CO2 emissions are almost perfectly in balance with natural CO2 sinks (again, see the carbon cycle), man made emissions are virtually 100% responsible for the increase in atmospheric CO2 from 280ppm to 400ppm.

There are numerous independent scientific lines of proof for this:

1. The ratio of carbon isotopes present in the atmosphere. These carry specific fingerprints revealing whether excess carbon comes from natural sources or man made. The data shows a signature consistent with the latter:



See also: Stable isotope ratio mass spectrometry in global climate change research (pdf)

2. Oxygen levels are declining at a rate parallel to the increase in atmospheric CO2. This is coming from burning hydrocarbons, which then react with O2 from the atmosphere to produce CO2. Since these levels are changing at equivalent rates, it once again reveals a distinct human fingerprint in this balance.



3. Last but not least is the simple fact that atmospheric CO2 concentrations have shot up like whoa since we started burning all the dinosaur goop. You think this is just an amazing coincidence?



Considering how obtuse you are about all the other things I won't be surprised if you do.

reply to post by inverslyproportional

Anyway - I'm not going to mince words here. Your posts towards the OP and others here have been incredibly rude and uncalled for. Meanwhile your extreme ignorance on this subject is plain for all to see in light of the facts and evidence presented above.

I wouldn't normally rub it in, but considering what a downright arrogant jerk you've been about it - I feel in this case you completely deserve to be pointed and laughed at.

When I first got sucked into this ridiculous so-called "debate" on ATS, another wise member here warned me about the rabid "skeptics" who suffer from something called the Dunning-Kruger effect. Basically it's a propensity towards such extreme intellectual incompetence that the subject is too incompetent to recognize their own incompetence.

I believe you are a grade A example of such unabashed foolishness, and your arrogance and hyper-defensive attitude only belies a deeper but very transparent insecurity about it.


As far as I'm concerned you are a biological marvel with foot stuck in mouth so far and head up *** even further that it all becomes some sort of twisted, snake-eat-tail symbolism for infinite, self-imposed and reinforced ignorance.


So you go ahead and keep beating your chest about it. I hope you serve as a great example to the more informed and conscious members here just how bad it gets when someone skips right past critical thinking and goes straight to the line up of mindlessly regurgitated talking points that happen to be pushed by oil company shills and right wing oligarchs.

Back on topic:

This new study is basically the most comprehensive and far-reaching confirmation of the famous "hockey stick graph", which deniers still like to pretend is a hoax even though it has been vindicated over and over and over again.

I like how Peter Sinclair put it here - it's no longer a hockey stick, it's a ski jump:

Originally posted by redtic

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
It's amazing how extremist politics can be injected into almost any subject these days.

What gets lost in these debates is the very simple idea that no matter what the cause might be, we need to prepare for the effect.

Yeah, only problem is there's a significant number that won't even recognize the fact that *something* is going on, irregardless of the cause..

REGARDLESS - not irregardless. Irregardless is not a word.

With that being said, regardless whether climate change is man made or not, I believe we should try to have a cleaner enviroment for our overall health. There is nothing better to me than when I leave the city and head up to my cabin deep in the woods of Northern Michigan and breathing in that fresh air. Far away from exhaust fumes of traffic jams and the smoke stacks of industry.

The whole "Man-made" argument is a load of crap. The whole entirety of the solar system/galaxy is heating up rapidly. It's NOT just the earth, it's all the planets and especially the sun. We are not on the sun, and the sun is heating up, thus global warming is NOT man-made. "Man-made Global Warming" Is a cash grab and an excuse to tax you on everything.

reply to post by clairvoyantrose

The whole entirety of the solar system/galaxy is heating up rapidly.

How do you know that?

It's NOT just the earth, it's all the planets and especially the sun.

How do you know that?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by clairvoyantrose

 

The whole entirety of the solar system/galaxy is heating up rapidly.

How do you know that?

It's NOT just the earth, it's all the planets and especially the sun.

How do you know that?

You're like a bad wart that doesn't go away aren't you?

Mars shown to be going through Climate change

Martian Ice melting

Pluto showing signs of heating up

Star Dust systems approach our Galaxy

Like I've said before; the information is not going to be widespread and will be stomped into the dust, and disinformed before it is able to reach the masses. There are cosmic waves that are coming with the heat increasing throughout the galaxy that are absolutely detrimental to our evolution as a species.

I read this. I am a believer that AGW at least contributes to the spike, but this article didn't even mention volcanic eruptions or methan hydrate releases and the impact they have

the more I read about this stuff the more confued I get

reply to post by clairvoyantrose

You said all the other planets are heating up. You listed two. But how far back do our climate records for Mars go? How far back do our climate records for Pluto go?

You said the Sun is heating up. You didn't provide any evidence that it is.

There are cosmic waves that are coming with the heat increasing throughout the galaxy that are absolutely detrimental to our evolution as a species.

Don't worry. I won't ask you how you know this.

reply to post by Phage


You're kind of an arrogant asshole, aren't you? Prowling ATS for stars with your snide remarks. I presented a couple links to show you some. You are perfectly capable of doing your own research into it, and are entitled to not believe what I post. Doesn't mean you need to go around like a prick and call down to other people. Is it really more logical to believe that we are the cause of a rapid warming of the planet than to believe that all other planets and stars are heating up too? Our vibrational plane is slowly changing.

Sun blamed for "Global Warming"

Originally posted by clairvoyantrose
reply to post by Phage

 

You're kind of an arrogant asshole, aren't you? Prowling ATS for stars with your snide remarks. I presented a couple links to show you some. You are perfectly capable of doing your own research into it, and are entitled to not believe what I post. Doesn't mean you need to go around like a prick and call down to other people. Is it really more logical to believe that we are the cause of a rapid warming of the planet than to believe that all other planets and stars are heating up too? Our vibrational plane is slowly changing.

Sun blamed for "Global Warming"

Hey, come on, he makes some darn good, and thought out points with his posts. There is no need to go personal on him and be a hypocrite
--
Edit: Call him out with factual links and references if you want to prove him your point on anything. Debate him reasonably, not personally, with proof. Links/firsthand documentation if ya got it. If anything he is a guy (in my opinion) with remarkable patience for coming back here to bring some rationale to a thread, with the amount of insanity coming through this forum.
--

P.S., I don't think Phage gets high or has an adrenaline rush on stars...

Propane has been around since 1912. It burns clean, pollutes far less. It pollutes so little that is used indoors. If used to power a car, the car requires less frequent oil changes and less engine repairs due to less carbon buildup in the engine. So why have we not mandated cars/trucks be propane friendly? Why have we not been using it for the last 100 years to power our vehicles and more? It is cheaper than gasoline. It is cheaper than diesel. If these brainy scientists care so much about global warming, why is there not an outcry to use propane instead of gasoline? Why do they impose on Americans to stop polluting while China and other countries scoop up manufacturing from America and pollute 100 times more than America would making the same product?

Because they don't really give a rats ass. It is and will continue to be about money. If the world switched to less pollution spewing fuels it would cause global economic chaos. We are of course polluting the planet. The fact is that it is all about the money and we have known for 100 years that we were polluting the planet. We don't need scientists to tell us the fact. They are just preaching to the choir and filling their pockets with research grants. The solutions have been in plain view for a century.

reply to post by clairvoyantrose

You're kind of an arrogant asshole, aren't you? Prowling ATS for stars with your snide remarks.

Your opinion. But I'm not the topic, am I?

Is it really more logical to believe that we are the cause of a rapid warming of the planet than to believe that all other planets and stars are heating up too?

It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of evidence.

There is no evidence that all the other planets and stars are heating up. There is evidence that Earth is and there is evidence that it is due to human activity.

Our vibrational plane is slowly changing.

Your opinion. You are welcome to it.

Sun blamed for "Global Warming"

Maybe you should read the article.

Originally posted by Philippines
I posted this in a related methane thread. This goes along with the video I posted earlier in this thread, and the topic here.
--
I don't know exactly what point the thread is at here, but I want to provide some data on why there should be a concern for methane (CH4) leaking into the atmosphere, especially in the arctic regions.

The images below were referenced from CMOS (Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society), and can be downloaded [here] (9 mb pdf.)

This picture is pretty self explanatory. Here we can see a distinct rise in all methane (CH4) levels since around 2007. All models/formulas are rising, not just 1 or 2 potentially incorrect ones.

Another great collection of data imagery, showing methane in the Arctic atmosphere, starting at 2006, then 2007, 2008, and 2009. It is clearly increasing in methane concentrations, though the next images show that trending more clearly.

This image shows 2010 and 2011, the most dense and red one to date, meaning there is a lot more methane in the Arctic atmosphere than who knows how far back exactly. Notice the graph on the bottom showing the increasing trend of methane since ~2007.

Here is a nice image showing that things are really warming up.

This is a great image of the feedback loop going on right now in the arctic. Some things to know are:

Albedo -

It is defined as the ratio of reflected radiation from the surface to incident radiation upon it.

And more in particular, the Ice Albedo Feedback Loop

A positive feedback climate process where a change in the area of snow-covered land, ice caps, glaciers or sea ice alters the albedo. This change in albedo acts to reinforce the initial alteration in ice area. Cooling tends to increase ice cover and hence the albedo, reducing the amount of solar energy absorbed and leading to more cooling. Conversely, warming tends to decrease ice cover and hence the albedo, increasing the amount of solar energy absorbed, leading to more warming.

So as this methane trapped in the Arctic regions will be released, causing more warming, causing more ice to melt and release the methane hydrates.

This last image is a recent shot of the Beaufort Sea, a sea in the Arctic ocean.

According to this post, and the note from one a user over here

He states that:

If taken as a simplistic predictor of the 2013 melt season, we are 51 days ahead of last season.

And this is a great time to bring this up. Phage, what are your thoughts/opinions on the methane hydrates emitting so much now, and the clathrate gun hypothesis?

What are your general thoughts on..
- Global warming based on these stored methanes being released?
- Is there an ice albedo feedback loop in place?
- Do you live in an altitude of over 1000m? =D

Thanks for your time =)

reply to post by Philippines

There is every indication that global warming has caused an increase in global methane levels. That increase so far has been pretty slight but if warming continues so will that increase. Depending on how long the warming continues and increases, methane levels may well reach concentrations which would lead to a significant enhancement of the process.

I'm not convinced that the clathrate gun hypothesis is valid. Which is not to say I discount it either.

Albedo certainly is a factor in any warming scenario.

I live slightly above sea level. High enough so I'm not worried about my house for the next 50 years, at least.

reply to post by clairvoyantrose


From the article you linked:

While evidence suggests fluctuations in solar activity can affect climate on Earth, and that it has done so in the past, the majority of climate scientists and astrophysicists agree that the sun is not to blame for the current and historically sudden uptick in global temperatures on Earth, which seems to be mostly a mess created by our own species.

But Abdussamatov’s critics say the Red Planet’s recent thawing is more likely due to natural variations in the planet’s orbit and tilt. On Earth, these wobbles, known as Milankovitch cycles, are thought to contribute to the onset and disappearance ice ages.

“It’s believed that what drives climate change on Mars are orbital variations,” said Jeffrey Plaut, a project scientist for NASA’s Mars Odyssey mission. “The Earth also goes through orbital variations similar to that of Mars.”

In fact, scientists have alternative explanations for the anomalous warming on each of these other planetary bodies.

The warming on Triton, for example, could be the result of an extreme southern summer on the moon, a season that occurs every few hundred years, as well as possible changes in the makeup of surface ice that caused it to absorb more of the Sun’s heat.

Researchers credited Pluto’s warming to possible eruptive activity and a delayed thawing from its last close approach to the Sun in 1989.

And the recent storm activity on Jupiter is being blamed on a recurring climatic cycle that churns up material from the gas giant’s interior and lofts it to the surface, where it is heated by the Sun.

reply to post by jimmiec


Propane has come under the same attacks that renewable energies have, so why not ask the Fossil Fuels Industry why we don't fuel our vehicles with propane (which by the way isn't the best solution anyway).

reply to post by syrinx high priest


That's already been addressed in this thread.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Philippines

 

There is every indication that global warming has caused an increase in global methane levels. That increase so far has been pretty slight but if warming continues so will that increase. Depending on how long the warming continues and increases, methane levels may well reach concentrations which would lead to a significant enhancement of the process.

I'm not convinced that the clathrate gun hypothesis is valid. Which is not to say I discount it either.

Albedo certainly is a factor in any warming scenario.

I live slightly above sea level. High enough so I'm not worried about my house for the next 50 years, at least.

Understood, so would you say we are at a point in humanity where there could be runaway global warming, and -- who really knows what that ultimately leads to in both the short and long term, say 5 years short and 100 years long?

I agree albedo is a factor, and perhaps one that compounds itself? I am concerned with the recent black rain being reported in Brazil and the possible effects of Fukushima contributing to the ice albedo feedback loop in place. I wonder if these "hot" nuclear particles are also increasing warming and going to the Arctic, maybe you know?

But do you think we are in an ice albedo feedback loop?

Thanks again!

Originally posted by clairvoyantrose

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by clairvoyantrose

 

The whole entirety of the solar system/galaxy is heating up rapidly.

How do you know that?

It's NOT just the earth, it's all the planets and especially the sun.

How do you know that?

You're like a bad wart that doesn't go away aren't you?

Mars shown to be going through Climate change

Martian Ice melting

Pluto showing signs of heating up

Star Dust systems approach our Galaxy

Like I've said before; the information is not going to be widespread and will be stomped into the dust, and disinformed before it is able to reach the masses. There are cosmic waves that are coming with the heat increasing throughout the galaxy that are absolutely detrimental to our evolution as a species.

This dude makes more sense then your crackpot garbage. How do you go about knowing THE ENTIRE world of outer space is heating up? Because some people posted it on the internet.. It makes no common sense at all..

reply to post by Philippines

I wonder if these "hot" nuclear particles are also increasing warming and going to the Arctic, maybe you know?

No. Unless you have a critical mass of material creating a chain reaction you don't get heat. A few particles, emitting a few alpha or beta rays, doesn't heat anything up.

But do you think we are in an ice albedo feedback loop?

I don't know. There is a reduction of Artic ice, yes. It that contributing to the release of Arctic methane? In an indirect way it would, certainly. Does it have a direct effect? That would take more research to determine. And that research is being done.

reply to post by redtic


Every time I delve into one of these discussions on global warming, I am put in mind of the old "argument sketch" between Cleese and Palin, with Palin taking the pro GW position and Cleese just sitting there flipping every thing and handing it right back.

Climate change did not used to be the bully deniers make it out to be. The big cock crowing in the yard. Protecting its authority. For decades, it was nothing more than a little blip on the public radar, a slender thread of evidence winding its way through the scientific community. It was a struggle to get any attention to the data at all. Yet the evidence kept coming in. And this was way before there was any large amount of funding on the issue at all so that basically eliminates that argument.

The deniers I have read, though they like to question the motives and funding of cc scientists, will not addess the motives and funding of the con cc information. How it has been funded by big oil and auto lobbies.

I recall the elections of 04, when the Pentagon came out with it's findings that CC was found to be a major threat to national security. Did Bush address these findings, nuh uh. Did Kerry, hardly. It was when Gore, a sad sack who did not even have the balls to stand up for his own victory in 00 began to push the issue to the front of the public awareness that the deniers had a focal point to draw issue with. Oh, he flies and pollutes, and has a big mansion which pollutes and blah blah blah. All that is nothing more than an observation on Gore. To use it as an argument against CC is just silly babble.

It think what gets me the most is this conservative mantra of individual responsibility. It is carried out in each and every argument they make. I, am responsible for my self. Not government. Not hand out. I am a strong self providing individual. If they do not completely deny CC, they blame it on earthly cycles. Or solar activity. Or a general warming of this area of space. Not to say that I deny any of those premises. It is their unwillingness to accept any responsibility at all that has made me wonder.

Oh sure, blame the powers that be. Those who want to put in place carbon taxes and make all of us pay.( Not to say that I have any faith in these useless proposals myself.) It's just that if they truly believed in individual repsonsibility like they proclaim they cannot believe in man made CC without changing their understanding of who they themselves are. And that, I am coming to think, is just to much to ask of them.