Honest question about god!

I have two questions...I have asked them before, here and other places. The first one I always get the same lame answer and bible verse quoted which does/explains nothing! The second one is always skipped over and not mentioned at all!

1) Why would someone have to die for anyone else's' sins? This makes no sense what so ever. How does someone dying make it any easier for someone to be forgiven?
2) Why did an omnipotent god need an animal killed, sacrificed to him? Did it have anything to do with the energy released from this animal at the time of it's death? That something needed and used (feed of off) that energy at certain times. It makes no sense that an omnipotent, almighty god would need something killed for it!

EDIT: to correct spelling goofs


[edit on 10/31/2004 by LadyV]

Not really sure about the first one. Altho, for the second question it's because it needs the energy, as you said, for itself. Heaven is nicely drawn, according to the bible's description, on the luciferian liberation front. Heaven as drawn according to the specs looks like a big battery and poor human souls are the energy.

Lady V,
You are correct on both questions. That is to say that at least you have the cajo�es to ask these important questions! Organized religion is all about social and political control. This is not to say that many/most people don't need controlling, they do. People left to their own devises will generally make self-serving choices to the exclusion of society as a whole.

1. By pointing out how godly sacrifice is, the clergy can then find it easier to encourage people to make sacrifices, be it money to support the clergy or lives to give in war.

2. Once again, sacrifice of animals gets people used to the concept of scarifice as a "holy" thing, and then it's not a very far stretch up to sacrificing people, especially people of one group that a different group feels are no better than animals anyway.

Of course, I can't give you an answer from a religious perspective since I don't have a religious perspective.

Originally posted by LadyV
2) Why did an omnipotent god need an animal killed, sacrificed to him? Did it have anything to do with the energy released from this animal at the time of it's death? That something needed and used (feed of off) that energy at certain times. It makes no sense that an omnipotent, almighty god would need something killed for it!

I think it had less to do with God needing the animals soul and more to do with showing obedience to the word of God, an act of faith and sacrifice. Animals were like money, they had a lot of worth and an obedient follower would need to surrender something he valued to God to show his compliance and prove his faith.

Originally posted by kinglizard

I think it had less to do with God needing the animals soul and more to do with showing obedience to the word of God, an act of faith and sacrifice. Animals were like money, they had a lot of worth and an obedient follower would need to surrender something he valued to God to show his compliance and prove his faith.

That's a good reasoning...but an omnipotent god shouldn't need something like this don't ya think?

LadyV,

You're question is very difficult to answer from an independant, nonfaith basis. The nature of the question divides the answers along tenents of faith. Those who do not hold to a faith that such an act (referring to question one) will inevitably find that such a sacrifice is unneccesary, or in some cases, an attempt to bring about subservience to an agenda.

I'll try to answer this thusly:

Assuming for a moment that a God, as the Christian faith attempts to explain, does in fact exist, and that He is, by nature of a truly divine being, perfectly good, and perfectly holy, it would be difficult for such a being to allow that which is not perfect in His/It's presence, because the nature of such a God would compell to correct the imperfection or cast the imperfection out of its presence. Now, we have to assume for a moment that we, as humans, are created by this God and that this God desires to commune with us, or our immortal selves, as best as we can explain, for whatever purpose it sees fit. In order to have personal, face to face communication with Him, we would need to be perfect. As we were endowed with the ability to freely choose our own actions and decisions, we inherently trend toward 'sinful' actions, it is in our nature. So this God, in order to bring about communion, set up a method of sacrifice, in order to establish a pattern by which his creation could commune with Him by spilling blood. This would be spilled in to symbolize that a perfect and holy God could not tolerate imperfection, and imperfection would have to be destroyed. Spilling of the blood of an animal by his creation, as demanded of Him, would be a substitution sacrifice, in order that His creation could then have communion with Him.
Eventually, this God would send another 'person' (Jesus, Teacher, Rabbi, whatever) to be sacrificed, as a final substitution for all, therefore animal sacrifice would no longer be necessary and through a following of that person (in the Christian faith, which this whole subject really is a question of, by the way) could the sinful creation have final communion with the Creator.

This is real hard to explain in a proper way without getting to 'Christian'. The subject and the nature of the question belies a predisposition toward proving or disproving, using human logic, a tenent of the Christian faith. It is no wonder you generally get Bible quoted at you. The nature of the question almost begs it.

Why did an omnipotent God need an animal sacrifice? He didn't. As I explained above, animal sacrifice was a substitution method for the retribution required by a perfect God for imperfection. It also, because of the intricate nature and process involved, denoted a certain level of obedience on the part of the sacrificer.

I hope I at least made some sense. It is very hard to explain without waxing Christian in my answer.

Originally posted by LadyV
[That's a good reasoning...but an omnipotent god shouldn't need something like this don't ya think?

If was simply an act of faith to abide by the word of God. God didn�t need the sacrifice or the spirit of the animal. It�s a test of obedience if you will. Remember when Got told Abraham to sacrifice his son? God was testing his faith he didn�t really want him to kill Isaac. When Abraham showed that he was going to do it God told him to stop, you see a test of faith. It�s the same with the animal sacrifices.


Abraham Tested Genesis 22

1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!"
"Here I am," he replied.
2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."

9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!"
"Here I am," he replied.
12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

bible.gospelcom.net...

well when you say that bible verses dont explain or answer your question then what can? the bible is the word of God...the same word that created life.

why do you need someone to answer the questions you use to rationalize your own non belief and justify your own sin (sorcery? sexual immorality?)

this is the truth as laid out in the bible. by ONE man sin entered the world..that one man was ADAM the first of our kind. satan decieved him BUT God still gave Adam the CHOICE!! Adam choice the wrong one. a couple of thousand years later Jesus Christ (one man) came into the world, and by that ONE MAN sin was destroyed forever. the reason why Jesus came was to FREE us from being SLAVES to the devil. we were lied to from the beginning and as soon as we accepted and followed that lie we became under satans control. Now again PLEASE remeber God gave us the CHOICE to make the mistake BUT also the CHOICE to come back to him, who is our true father.

LadyV why do you always post questions that persecute the way , the truth and the life?? what sin is in you that you fear your own salvation so much? you do know that every vile thing you have done God already knows of?? the same for me and every other living creature. i know not why you hate God so much, what did he do to you personally??? let him please plead his cause to your heart, it is written:

Micah 6:3
what have I done unto thee? and wherein have I wearied thee? testify against me.

what exactly did God do to you LadyV that you persist to slander the truth and means of your own only salvation???

whatever power you crave and have now , you know it is temporal right?? you know everything you do is know of, in the heavens and in the deepest places of earth and that you must render unto him the wages of your sin???

be saved from this perverse generation now while you still can. stop looking for reason why you should not believe and let not your heart become hardened, God is love.....Jesus is the only man who has lived, or who will ever live who can truely satisfy your soul and lead you into true eternal life.

God delights in mercy, why not bring your questions to him alone for he will listen to you for it is written in the bible, the words of Jesus Christ "seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be opened, ASK AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN TO YOU" why not PRAY to God the same questions you post on this board?? He will answer you and give you the things you know NOT , the things you NEED.

I hope I can answer your questions...

Q: Why would someone have to die for anyone else's' sins?

A: Because a perfect life was taken by sin (Adam), a perfect life would have to be given in atonement for sin (Jesus). Mankind's fall in Eden showed that sin can only attack the flesh, but it is the spirit which pays the ultimate consequence of sin.

God showed how much he loved us by sending his only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. This is real love. It is not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.

God loved us even when we despised and rejected Him. He loves us now, though we don�t deserve it and often don�t even appreciate it. He gave His son to die for us because of what we meant to Him. And He somehow finds in us a worth that compelled Him to redeem us with the precious life of His only begotten son.

Jesus died to satisfy the punishment of mankind's sins. Dying for someone you love is the greatest possible form of loving somebody. There was no better way for God to demonstrate his love for mankind than to sacrifice himself for us.

Jesus was not obligated or required to die for us. Mankind wasn't entitled to any of His atoning work. It is because God loved us unconditionally that He sacrificed the life of his only son for us, so that Mankind could be redeemed from sin and eternal punishment, and therefore Mankind then had a chance of redemption and salvation. Since we have been made right in God�s sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God�s judgment.

Q: How does someone dying make it any easier for someone to be forgiven?

A: See answer above.

Q. Why did an omnipotent god need an animal killed, sacrificed to him?

A: See answer above.

Q. Did it have anything to do with the energy released from this animal at the time of it's death? That something needed and used (feed of off) that energy at certain times. It makes no sense that an omnipotent, almighty god would need something killed for it!

A: Your reference to a dying creature emitting "energy" to be used or fed off of does not, I believe, have anything to do with the reason Christ died for our sins.

For number one its just the way it is.

and for number 2 , god wouldent need sacrifices

1) Why would someone have to die for anyone else's' sins? This makes no sense what so ever. How does someone dying make it any easier for someone to be forgiven?

Jesus is meant to have been the nicest and loving guy that ever lived. When someone says 'christ died for your sins' ..no matter how little.. even if you tell a harmless white lie.. it can be considered a direct cause of his death because he recieved our punnishment and so we should hang our heads in shame for it. Massive guilt trip.

2) Why did an omnipotent god need an animal killed, sacrificed to him? Did it have anything to do with the energy released from this animal at the time of it's death? That something needed and used (feed of off) that energy at certain times. It makes no sense that an omnipotent, almighty god would need something killed for it!

Sadist? or.. maybe he liked cute animals at his side.. and I guess they'd have to be killed to get to heaven.. I think that was the logic behind it. Anyway.. it gave people a civilised reason to murder.. religions always been good for that.

A couple of people from the christian side have put it valuable info. Here's what I'll throw in.

God is the sovereign of the universe. He made it, He is the supreme lawgiver. He made the rules. This will and has rubbed people wrong but that will not change the fact. Once you find out who God is really, you are glad He is in control.

Sin brings death. Mankind is under a death sentence. If God would have left it as is, when someone died they would enter an existance of eternal, everlasting seperation from God.

The sacrifice of an animal was a foreshadowing of the true sacrifice that would come at the appointed time. When someone brought the best lamb that they had, one that could have made them money or been good breeding stock, they were in faith doing what God required. They were giving their best because God was going to send His best in Christ. Plus symbolically when a person's sin was transferred to that lamb. The priest would have the person put his hands on the lamb as a show of the transference. Then that lamb would be killed in the persons place. Sounds gruesome and gross, quess what in reality it is. It shows us that sin is not a laughing matter to God. His laws aren't here to prevent fun they are here to establish a universe that is free from sin. People saw that lamb die and knew it was them that deserved death, but God in His mercy provided a sustitute. A temporary sustitute was the animals, until the one time, permanent substitute(Jesus) would arrive.

The simplest and most logical answer is this.... there is no god. So no diety died for our "sins", and no god needs animals sacrificed to it. Have a nice day!

This is just a guess on my part but an "educated" guess.

Most sacrifices of animals only the entrils were burnt.

The priests keep the good parts

The early Christians were mad at the priests for killing there "God" so quit sacrificing to them claiming they no longer needed to.

Just a guess

The TRUE question is why would a God that knows everything before it happens need to "test" his followers and make them "prove" what he already knew?

Why would he need all this crap to begin with?

Or was it all just leftover from the days of human sacrifices?



[edit on 31-10-2004 by Amuk]

I have read the responses, and it still makes no logical sense to me...it just doesn't fit that "anything" has to die for anyone else's sin...an omnipotent god could do whatever he wanted to...and there is just no reason to slaughter anything for a god...I was kinda hoping someone would say something that that made sense to me and made me sat "Oooohh ok...I get it" but it just makes not a bit of sense...like telling someone to run around a wall X amount of times blowing a horn x amount of times to make a wall fall...no sense what so ever...I went to a double Christening today two of my grandsons...their mother is Catholic. I watched very, very carefully and listened well....it's was all so ritualistic and much like a pagan gathering...absolutely beautiful old church, lots of anointing oils, and signs of the cross on foreheads and such.....

The pratices of the catholic church are not Biblical

Originally posted by dbrandt
The pratices of the catholic church are not Biblical

Every religion thinks the others aren't "biblical" there is only ONE god...that's the way it is.....just one, and everybody fighting over the best way to worship, the one..

So, let me get this straight. When one gives you Biblical answers, they are lame? Then I'll not give you an answer to that. Just as when a nonbeliever reads the mystery and it makes no sense, neither will a believer quoting the mystery.

To the second question, the answer is twofold. One, it is obedience on the part of the human. The second part, the animal blood covered the sins of the believer until the Redeemer came to shed His own blood to wash away the previously covered sins.

Lady V. IMO, the concept of God has been GROSSLY distorted. Thank the Bible for that. People in those times lived a very hard life and were easly manipulated through ignorance and punishment. In those days, the priest ran everything. If you defy the priest, you are a heritic and punished accordingly. I believe the bible was written as a means to get the sheep under control. We are constantly refered to as sheep in the bible with the lord as our shepard. It insuates that we cannot think for ourselves. However, god was supposed to have given us frewill to make our own decisions and lead our own life.

The Bible has so many ideosyncracies that its not even funny. The church wants you to give them money to pray. I call it "pay to pray". What do they do with the cash? They build grand churches, and gold laden alters to worship at. Doesnt it say in the bible that God would rather us worship him in a tent than a temple? People who go to a church that is bigger than most 700,000 dollar homes are not worshiping God. The are worshiping the church they goto.

Christ didnt have to die for our sins, although it certainly helps thier cause to think he did.

God does not require, nor has he ever had a need for the sacrifice of animals. Why would he?

Also, God doesnt already know whats going to happen in the future. How could he/she if we all have free will adn are able to choose our own destiny in life?

Just my own humble opinion