Regarding those who claim freemasons worship lucifer -

A reoccurring - indeed, almost daily - theme in this forum is that freemasons worship lucifer. People seem to get that idea because the idea of "masonic light" is important in the ritual, AND because the bible says lucifer is the light bearer, therefore masons worship lucifer. I just wanted to demonstrate why this logic is so bad, since it seems like just explaining to people why this logic is wrong is getting no where. So here we go. Since masons worship lucifer because he is the light bearer, I took a look at my bible to find out what else it has to say about light -

Using this logic, the bible says the following:

(1) Everyone who doesnt follow the light (lucifer) is a murder, thief and adulterer:
Job 24:13 There are those who rebel against the light,
who are not acquainted with its ways,and do not stay in its paths.
14 The murderer rises before it is light,
that he may kill the poor and needy,
and in the night he is like a thief.
15 The eye of the adulterer also waits for the twilight,
saying, ‘No eye will see me’;
and he veils his face.
16 In the dark they dig through houses;
by day they shut themselves up;

(2) Everyone who doesnt follow the light (lucifer) hates the Lord and is a coward:
Psalm 27:1 The Lord is my light and my salvation;
whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the stronghold of my life;
of whom shall I be afraid?
they do not know the light.

(3) Everyone who doesnt follow the light (lucifer) will never know the glory of God:
Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more
your light by day,
nor for brightness shall the moon
give you light;
but the Lord will be your everlasting light,
and your God will be your glory.
20 Your sun shall no more go down,
nor your moon withdraw itself;
for the Lord will be your everlasting light,
and your days of mourning shall be ended.

(4) Those who do not follow the light (lucifer) are not Christians. Christians are the light (lucifer) of the world:
Matthew 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

(5) Those who do not follow the light (lucifer) hate Jesus, who was the light:
John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

I could go on, and on, and on with this. The point is this: stop with the insanity of telling masons they follow lucifer. The logic, as you can see here, is literally nuts. If you believe that masons worship lucifer then you also believe all the above.

reply to post by thelongjourney


Lucifer is a name that was assigned, incorrectly, to Isaiah 14 by Jerome. It is a Greek word that was used for a Hebrew word. Why did he do this? We will never know. As for the references to Jesus being the one bringing the light, this is true. There should be no confusion if Jesus is the one bringing the light. This has nothing to do with the bright and shining king in Isaiah 14. Apart from this reference, there are NO other references in the Bible.

As for the Masons, they are the Mystery Religion of Babylon. There is no secret here. God said, "Jacob (Farmer) have I loved and Esau (Hunter) have I hated." This is a direct reference to the system of Babylon that is founded on taking rather than giving. The farmer gives and the hunter takes. Follow the thread of truth from Jacob to Jesus and you get the will of God as giving. Follow the will of Esau to Nimrod and you get the will to take. Genesis 3 is all about taking knowledge, which is what the Masons (Builders) have always done. They build the outer temple of the world. This is idolatry and Paganism. Further, the subvert the law in a conspiracy against the people. This is the definition of a private association. It is private and not out in the open. Hidden. Occult. On the other hand, the church doors are open and there are no secrets. One takes and one gives.

How do we compare this?

The Mystery School Religion is connected to theurgy and Theosophy. The main goal shows the Mystery School Religion to be a works religion, where man can earn his own salvation. Compare this to the main voice in Theosophy.

Aliester Crowley (Freemason) said, ""Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

Jesus said, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Matt 7:12

Which one gives and which one takes?

In the end, the only determining factor is selfishness. Selfishness is the mark of the beast. The beast is the animal nature of mankind.

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

How many identifiers does he list? 18. 6+6+6. He goes on to say this:

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

In the end, we cannot know who we worship. None of us know the Son or God yet.

Luke 10:22, "All things are delivered (revealed) to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the son, and he to whom the son will reveal him."

It is not us that will demonstrate our salvation. The light we follow is the light that reveals what it hits. Light cannot be seen. It only illuminates what it hits. We are all known fully by this light.

John 2

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

God loved us first.

Not all Masons reject the Cornerstone. The Cornerstone is giving. The problem is not the action, but the oath to man instead of God alone. Let your light shine and come out of Egypt. The instructions are simple.

reply to post by thelongjourney

People often cite Blavatsky and Pike on this...While Blavatsky would know little about it she does have some good insight... Pike on the other hand was the top Scottish Freemason in the US after the Civil War and went to work "fixing" the rituals. "Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff." Albert Pike gives solid evidence of Freemason's worship of Satan on the cover of Morals and Dogma. Below the seal of "God", Pike writes a Latin phrase, which proves to be a typical satanic phrase. One look at this phrase would alert any Satanist that the contents of this book are Satanic! What is this phrase? "DEUS MEUMQUE JUS" The literal meaning is "God and My Right"

Another source people cite is Crowley but he was never a member of a consecrated lodge he started his own clandestine lodge which was never recognized by traditional masons.

Sites like this perpetuate the misinterpretation. The main premise of Freemasonry (speculative masons) is charity, not satanism or any other religion; as it is open to all belief systems that recognize a Grand Architect. There may be Satanists that are Freemasons, but it would not be the norm or even discussed in lodge. Masonic etiquette frowns on political and personal religion discussion.

NOPE! He was warning the 19th degree Masons of John's warning in Revelation. Read the entire chapter. It was a warning against Lucifer, the AntiChrist. Quote the entire paragraph.

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by thelongjourney

 

People often cite Blavatsky and Pike on this...While Blavatsky would know little about it she does have some good insight... Pike on the other hand was the top Scottish Freemason in the US after the Civil War and went to work "fixing" the rituals. "Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff." Albert Pike gives solid evidence of Freemason's worship of Satan on the cover of Morals and Dogma. Below the seal of "God", Pike writes a Latin phrase, which proves to be a typical satanic phrase. One look at this phrase would alert any Satanist that the contents of this book are Satanic! What is this phrase? "DEUS MEUMQUE JUS" The literal meaning is "God and My Right"

Another source people cite is Crowley but he was never a member of a consecrated lodge he started his own clandestine lodge which was never recognized by traditional masons.

Sites like this perpetuate the misinterpretation. The main premise of Freemasonry (speculative masons) is charity, not satanism or any other religion; as it is open to all belief systems that recognize a Grand Architect. There may be Satanists that are Freemasons, but it would not be the norm or even discussed in lodge. Masonic etiquette frowns on political and personal religion discussion.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


"As for the Masons, they are the Mystery Religion of Babylon. There is no secret here. God said, "Jacob (Farmer) have I loved and Esau (Hunter) have I hated." This is a direct reference to the system of Babylon that is founded on taking rather than giving. The farmer gives and the hunter takes." -- False the base of Masonic belief is charity (look at the network of hospitals that provide FREE care)

"Genesis 3 is all about taking knowledge, which is what the Masons (Builders) have always done." Wrong again Operative Masons held the knowledge of Geometry and Architecture, Speculative Masons use Operative Masons tools to anecdotally hone themselves into perfect stones for the temple in the afterlife.

This is clearly the view of someone who has not been through and does not understand Masonic teachings. Theurgy or ritual lessons are used to reinforce the lectures so that a Mason better understands what message is being conveyed.

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


Here is the full quote. He is speaking to the "Soldiers of the Cross." The Apocalypse is the Revelation of John. He is warning the 19th degree Mason to be careful of the counterfeit christ.

Therefore faint not, nor be weary in well-doing! Be not dis-
couraged at men's apathy, nor disgusted with their follies, nor
tired of their indifference! Care not for returns and results;but
see only what there is to do, and do it, leaving the results to God!
Soldier of the Cross! Sworn Knight of Justice, Truth, and Tol-
eration! Good Knight and True!be patient and work!
The Apocalypse, that sublime Kabalistic and prophetic Sum-
mary of all the occult figures, divides its images into three Sep-
tenaries, after each of which there is silence in Heaven. There
are Seven Seals to be opened, that is to say, Seven mysteries to
know, and Seven difficulties to overcome, Seven trumpets to
sound, and Seven cups to empty.
The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree,
the Apothesis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone,
and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the
Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit
of Darknesss! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who
bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble,
sensual or selfish Souls ? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of
Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of
one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.
The Apocalypse, indeed, is a book as obscure as the Sohar.
It is written hieroglyphically with numbers and images; and
the Apostle often appeals to the intelligence of the Initiated.
"Let him who hath knowledge, understand! let him who under-
stands, calculate !" he often says, after an allegory or the mention
of a number. Saint John, the favorite Apostle, and the Depositary
of all the Secrets of the Saviour, therefore did not write to be
undertood by the multitude.

reply to post by thelongjourney


How dare you use logic and reason. Don’t you know those are tools of the Devil.

S&F OP you made good points.


Unfortunately some will not be satisfied until you come up with a brilliant idea like determining if someone is a witch by seeing if they sink or float.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Why I am saying people use this spinet to defend their stance (which is incorrect), I have read the entire book several times.

Not what Wikipedia says.

Theurgy

Theurgy (from Greek θεουργία) describes the practice of rituals, sometimes seen as magical in nature, performed with the intention of invoking the action or evoking the presence of one or more gods, especially with the goal of uniting with the divine, achieving henosis, and perfecting oneself.

Travel deeper and it is spiritual alchemy. The aim is to transmute the gross to subtle. There is nothing wrong with this, but the intent of the heart is the determining factor. From the private associations of hidden proceedings, we see the world as it presently is. The watermark of the Masons are all over the landscape. The fruit of this world is built by those private associations. The last thing they do is give. Daddy Warbucks takes for himself. He is a war profiteer and is in business today. Daddy Warbucks is the Federal Reserve and wears many hats.

Are the Tables Turned?

The true light had something to say about entering the Temple and raising the true temple. It is His work and not ours.

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

"As for the Masons, they are the Mystery Religion of Babylon. There is no secret here. God said, "Jacob (Farmer) have I loved and Esau (Hunter) have I hated." This is a direct reference to the system of Babylon that is founded on taking rather than giving. The farmer gives and the hunter takes." -- False the base of Masonic belief is charity (look at the network of hospitals that provide FREE care)

"Genesis 3 is all about taking knowledge, which is what the Masons (Builders) have always done." Wrong again Operative Masons held the knowledge of Geometry and Architecture, Speculative Masons use Operative Masons tools to anecdotally hone themselves into perfect stones for the temple in the afterlife.

This is clearly the view of someone who has not been through and does not understand Masonic teachings. Theurgy or ritual lessons are used to reinforce the lectures so that a Mason better understands what message is being conveyed.

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Why I am saying people use this spinet to defend their stance (which is incorrect), I have read the entire book several times.

One look at this phrase would alert any Satanist that the contents of this book are Satanic! What is this phrase? "DEUS MEUMQUE JUS" The literal meaning is "God and My Right"

In a post above, you said this. I was merely showing you that Pike meant something different. I have also read the book several times.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Hold on let me go edit the Wiki page quick.....Sure back when people believed in magic and were clueless( for the most part) in the physical workings of the world that is how the rituals would have been used.Masons do it out of tradition and to reinforce the point...they will even tell you this during initiation.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


That is the quote people use to try and say Masons love Satan....but that is not what the entirety of the statement says(as you linked). If you read to the end I state that the sight that quote is from perpetuates the BS we are discussing.

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

That is the quote people use to try and say Masons love Satan....but that is not what the entirety of the statement says(as you linked). If you read to the end I state that the sight that quote is from perpetuates the BS we are discussing.

There are twins in Religion. Two Lords

Each of these Twins have a name. One is the Angel of Light. The other is the Angel of Darkness. We can only know them by their fruit. This Dead Sea Scroll reveals the truth in plain words: Eyes Wide Open

Have you read Revelation 11 or 17? The Mystery School Religion will be destroyed. "Their" Lord was crucified in Egypt? Jesus was Crucified in Jerusalem. Read the threads linked above.

As for the Masons, Jesus had words for the Builders, Moneychangers and False Priests. He called them the "Experts" in the law. Why swear an oath, "So Mote it Be" to men? This oath is to the Mystery School and not to God. It is a mark of selfishness to take the advantage from private associations instead of rule by the people. It is division rather than unity.

Who funds both sides of wars? Can you identify Daddy Warbucks in this video?

God gave the command to all of us. Come out of Egypt.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Aliester Crowley (Freemason) said, ""Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

And with that, I will ignore everything else you have to say.

If you cannot be honest enough to tell the truth on this matter, it's painfully obvious you will either lie, or not be smart enough to understand the subject.


Crowley was as much of a freemason as you are. Blatant ignorance on display. Pittiful

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Aliester Crowley (Freemason) said, ""Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

And with that, I will ignore everything else you have to say.

If you cannot be honest enough to tell the truth on this matter, it's painfully obvious you will either lie, or not be smart enough to understand the subject.


Crowley was as much of a freemason as you are. Blatant ignorance on display. Pittiful

Crowley was initiated on 8 October 1904, presumably passed the following month, and raised on 17 December 1904; he is listed in the 'Tableau annuel' dated 31 December 1904 with the Grand Lodge number 41210, Lodge number 54. Crowley was 'warmly welcomed by numerous English and American visitors to our Lodge', thus reinforcing his belief that all was masonically well. He wrote enthusiastically about his experience to his brother-in-law, Gerald Kelly, later President of the Royal Academy of Art:
If you are not yet a Mason, it is worth your while to become one in a French lodge. Ask Bowley, who likes Tannhäuser [a long poem by Crowley], or says he does, and all sorts of sweet things. (Letter, Crowley to Gerald Kelly, undated but c. 1904, University of London, Warburg Institute, G. J. Yorke Collection).

From the records made available for this paper, Crowley last appears as a member of Anglo-Saxon Lodge No. 343 in 1908. His name does not appear in the 1934 published list of members of the Grand Loge de France.

From what I can see, there is an entire history with the Freemasons.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


From your source...."IT MAY SURPRISE some and horrify others to learn that Aleister Crowley (1875-1947), the 20th century’s best-known mage, was ever remotely associated with the masonic fraternity. Although, unbeknown to him at the time of joining, all his affiliations were with unrecognized and irregular bodies, Crowley’s status as a freemason went largely unquestioned by non-masons throughout his life. Events show that the distinctions of regularity meant much to his masonic contemporaries and little to the rest, where reputation as a freemason preceded him, as when the Nazi Geheime Staatspolizei arrested Crowley’s German disciple Karl Germer in February 1935 for the 'crime' of being a friend of the 'Hochgradfreimaurer Crowley'. "

As I said he was a clandestine lodge member, not belonging to Free and Accepted Masons

thank you for your incite here I learned a lot form your discussion and thanks for the video.

god can only be found within yourself not within others or temples only you can find truth deep within I have a few friends that are masons.. they arnt the best of people I can from my experience and seem do not know the nature of god they are short tempered people and womanizers witch I don't believe in I have spoken intimately with them about masonry and I have also talked to there female counterparts and what they tell me and what the there female counter parts tell me is its does seem like devil worship she told me that they have images of very disturbing things and skulls of animals and such things. I cant say for sure what goes on in the lodges but in my home town lodges are located near grave yards and funeral homes.. places I would say are very high energy and I feel this is not a mistake they place them like in my home town of Portsmouth VA its is literally sharing the property line of a massive graveyard and then the next city over the lodge shares a property line with a rather busy funeral home... they feed on this energy and it just make me realize how weak of a soul they are to need other beings energy to obtain the great work as for me I give all my energy to others in hopes I can help and heal them and possibly allow them to grow in sprit. I feel the peace inside when I am giving my energy and I can feel the vampirism of other greedy people its almost as if they try and take your energy good thing for me my energy is in never ending supply that might be why these people are attracted to me but who really know I dont really believe in coincidence the plot runs deeper then most people even care to understand.






reply to post by EnochWasRight

reply to post by tierdofbs


Those are not good examples of speculative masons...they are not following the lessons provided on their way up. The thing you have to understand though is the Freemasons have changed heavily over the past 20 yrs. Many Masons have never even done their degree work or preformed the work needed to be passed and raised, since lodges now allow 3 degrees in 1 day (most lodges only do this once a year). Lodges have let up on certain things, such as criminal background. While they did these things to keep the craft alive it has weakened the fabric. The Brothers you know should be reminded to square the circle.

Originally posted by tierdofbs
god can only be found within yourself not within others or temples

Which is why Freemasonry is concerned with the internal, not the external.

I have a few friends that are masons.. they arnt the best of people I can from my experience and seem do not know the nature of god they are short tempered people and womanizers

You know some scumbags. My experience suggests that they are atypical.

they have images of very disturbing things and skulls of animals and such things.

My experience suggests that this is extremely atypical.

in my home town lodges are located near grave yards and funeral homes

Fraternal groups usually don't have a whole lot of money and build where land is cheap. The same goes for cemeteries and funeral homes, who need a lot of land.

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff."

This is the same thing most churches say about Satan. Actually, it's the same thing religiously motivated anti-Masons say Satan is doing through Freemasonry. Of all the things in Freemasonry to take issue with, this makes the least sense to me.

Pike writes a Latin phrase, which proves to be a typical satanic phrase. One look at this phrase would alert any Satanist that the contents of this book are Satanic! What is this phrase? "DEUS MEUMQUE JUS" The literal meaning is "God and My Right"

First, I'm wondering what makes this "typically" Satanic. Second, what makes this Satanic in a way that, say, the United States Constitution is not? It's the founding principle of Western democracy.

The main premise of Freemasonry (speculative masons) is charity

The main premise of Freemasonry is individual betterment; charity is a by-product of such.