Why our World is a Prison Planet

reply to post by intrptr


Hi intrptr,

Thank you for your very insightful post.
I particular, l liked this bit:

We are made physical first so that we can learn to hate it before we become ethereal. That way we won't miss being physical or wonder what its like. Been there done that.

reply to post by MrUncreated

Hi MrUncreated,

Thank you for your post.
I agree with what you are saying, and I quote:

If we were truly free, we would have the power to become ethereal or corporeal at will, whenever we choose. Instead we have no choice.

That is so true.

I believe that our bodies are nothing but spiritual formations.. There's even no "material" or "spiritual".. There is just something that IS.

Body is a complex of abstract phenomenons, as well as everything in the universe.

This complex is built of smaller complexes, of cells, which consist of molecules, which consist of atoms, which... here we have to ask a quantum physicist... and he would answer, that atoms consist of abstract tiny Schroedinger cat type phenomemons, which are pure information. He might even tell you those things have: spin, flavour, charm, strangeness, bottomness.. None of which has anything to do with our "real-world" terms.

The matter is pure abstraction, working in full accordance with laws of mathematics. I would go as far as telling that mathematics is the ultimate law of universe.

So back to our bodies... They are the interface of interaction with the world. We learn that inteface from the moment we are born, with huge help of parents... Babies are often scared by their own hands waving before their eyes - they don't have the assemblage of their bodies, it seems abstract and unknown to them. We put a lot of effort into first assembling the body structure, and then into assembling our personality, all of which are just abstract sets of abstract things interacting in certain ways. And we do spend enormous energy and effort into maintaining of this binding, every second of our being.

In this regard, yes, it's a prison we willingly support. But this will is buried so deep in our cosciousnesses... When we die, we are free.. To build a new one or not. To continue to crawl upon the Tree of Knowledge or return back to find ourselves standing side by side with our Eve/Yin (or Adam/Yang) deciding whether to bite from this shiny tempting fruit again or not, given that we have all the eternity to decide and equal possibility of choosing either variant if we couldn't manage to transcend beyond duality (just musing )

Your answer is 'bodies'.

But there are deeper answers than that.

My answer would be: KARMA. We have all consented to all of this. If you don't belong in a prison, don't incarnate onto a prison planet.

To clarify:

Bodies are not the REASON, they are the METHOD.

reply to post by MrUncreated

If we were truly free, we would have the power to become ethereal or corporeal at will, whenever we choose. Instead we have no choice. In anything, really. We get what we get, and that's that. We don't even get to choose what we look like.

I'm not sure what you mean by totally free?You don't even get to choose to be. Or maybe we did. I can't remember. But here you are. Wouldn't you rather be?

Oh and this endurance test is just that... a test. You can handle it... look at the bright side. You get to feel the sun on your skin, taste food... and get laid.

reply to post by QMask

So we are sort of imprisoned here aren't we? At times, it seems like forever. That is just boredom. Be glad to be bored. It means things are going well. That there are no problems (except your tolerance). Just be. Its a small price to pay for eternity don't you think?

This life may seem too long but what is the short time we spent in the womb compared to this life? It was only 9 mos. Now we are in another "gestation" stage and when that is over we are born into another world that will be fresh and new. Don't worry, like birth as a baby there will be midwives in attendance then too.

Or something like that.

This planet has been a prison planet since time began. The only breath of fresh air we've had is with early America. And yet even that's trying to be stripped from the common man.

You will never be free until you reject the system that's been built for you.

reply to post by intrptr

Hi intrptr,

You say, and I quote:

Now we are in another "gestation" stage, and when that is over, we are born into another world that will be fresh and new.

I just hope the next life will be better than this one.
Hopefully, a life with more freedom for everyone!
Hopefully, a life with less suffering and pain!

The problem is, we don't really know much about the next life, do we?

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by MrUncreated

 

I'm not sure what you mean by totally free?You don't even get to choose to be. Or maybe we did. I can't remember. But here you are. Wouldn't you rather be?

No, actually. Most of the time I wish I were never born in the first place.

Oh and this endurance test is just that... a test. You can handle it... look at the bright side. You get to feel the sun on your skin, taste food... and get laid.

Speak for yourself, on that last one.

reply to post by QMask


Very interesting and in many ways i 100% agree with you. But the word prison may be misleading. Yes, from what you described we are 'trapped' but i don't think we're trapped for no reason. I think we were put here to learn. And in many ways you can understand where the Heaven/Hell idea comes from. We will learn right from wrong. We will be tested with and experience all types of event and emotions in our life. And perhaps this is necessary.

A prison is usually (as we know it) a place where we are kept in punishment. Do you believe that the human race has done something wrong in the past that we need to be on a "prison planet"? Im interested, and who am i to say either way. I was just wondering what you're thoughts on why this is a "prison" planet and not somewhere we must be in order to learn.

Interesting post, thanks!

reply to post by MrUncreated

No, actually. Most of the time I wish I were never born in the first place.

Most of the time? What about the rest of the time? You discovered the same thing everybody else feels... sometimes... too. That goes with the territory. Did you read that? Everybody feels the same way from time to time.

It's not a bad thing that you realize how awful these "feelings" can be. Just remember they are only feelings.

Feelings are okay... even bad ones.

reply to post by QMask

I just hope the next life will be better than this one.

When you were born you were a baby, was it better to be in the womb? How did you feel... "Ahhhh! Put me baaaaack!"

Hopefully, a life with less suffering and pain!

The problem is, we don't really know much about the next life, do we?

I think that we need to adapt and grow there too, just like here. It will be different, just like the womb is different than being an adult.

But you are right. We don't really know. There are "reports" from those who have died and returned. Some of those are quite moving. If any of them are true, then it will be wonderful.

Just observing...

Originally posted by MrConspiracy
reply to post by QMask

 

Very interesting and in many ways i 100% agree with you. But the word prison may be misleading. Yes, from what you described we are 'trapped' but i don't think we're trapped for no reason. I think we were put here to learn. And in many ways you can understand where the Heaven/Hell idea comes from. We will learn right from wrong. We will be tested with and experience all types of event and emotions in our life. And perhaps this is necessary.

A prison is usually (as we know it) a place where we are kept in punishment. Do you believe that the human race has done something wrong in the past that we need to be on a "prison planet"? Im interested, and who am i to say either way. I was just wondering what you're thoughts on why this is a "prison" planet and not somewhere we must be in order to learn.

Interesting post, thanks!

'
You didn't ask me....but I am replying as I am seeking to learn, and what you have written intrigues me.

so the estimation so far is it is a prison, for punishment, and thus what for, as a species, as you describe
or, to learn, a "school," for said learning:

don't both estimations result in gadging our worth, or value by once discovering this, what we do then?

reply to post by MrConspiracy

Hi MrConspiracy,

You asked some tough questions in your post, and to be honest, I don't really have the answers. ...But here is my take on the issues that you have raised.

You said, and I quote:

...the word "prison" may be misleading. ...from what you described we are "trapped"

Yes, I guess I could also have used the word "trapped", ...because we certainly are trapped here. (Please note that English is not my first language, and I may not always get all the words exactly right.)


You also said, and I quote:

I think we were put here to learn.

That may be, but the thing is: I am tired of all the "learning". And I am sure I am not the only one. Some of the lessons that we supposedly have to "learn", are really unpleasant, and sometimes a lot of pain and suffering is involved in the so-called "learning".

To elaborate a bit further on this point: There are really some very unpleasant things going on in this world. Just think of people starving to death in Africa, for example. Just knowing that this sort of thing is actually happening in our world, affects ALL of us, ...even if you choose to ignore the issue. Subconsciously, it does affect you, and it brings you down, if you are a person with any empathy or compassion in your heart.

Also, if you are the one starving to death, then what exactly are you supposed to "learn" from that?? That sounds like a "lesson" that I would much rather want to give a skip, thank you very much.


You also asked, and I quote/paraphrase:

Do you believe that the human race has done something wrong in the past, that we need to be "punished" here on this "prison planet"?

I really don't know the answer to this question. There is no former sin that I am aware of, or that I can imagine, that would justify "punishment" on this grand scale though.

From my point of view, it just looks like many innocent people are suffering and experiencing pain in this world of ours. Who is really to blame for all of that? I wish I knew, but I don't.


Well, thank you for your post, and thank you for making me think about all these hard questions.

Regards
QMask

reply to post by QMask


I wonder at those who are glad terrible damage was done to them in the past because it made them feel happier in the long run.
All I got from the severe emotional and neurological issues I experienced years ago were bad memories. The only growth and personal reformations I obtained were through GOOD things.

From my learnings, I have come to the conclusion that crap happens, and our spiritual growth must be obtained in spite of that junk. That includes the idea that we can grow even with the absence of traumatic events or negativity in general.

My idea is that we are, at our very centers, already at our destinations. Our memory was just wiped so the Source could experience itself subjectively. It's not learning that we're to do, but remembering.

Originally posted by QMask
reply to post by MrConspiracy

 

That may be, but the thing is: I am tired of all the "learning". And I am sure I am not the only one.

Sure you're not!

I for one feel like I've already lived thousands of lives, and am really tired of going in circles. I've seen so much inside, so many different things someone might call transpersonal...

Indeed, the whole its history the humankind walks around in the same circle, just drifting a bit further from the center, so it's a sloooow spiral.. So much had changed in recent 100 years but nothing had changed big in an average human. It is still mostly an aggressive animal with advanced means of self-destruction and self-deception.

My desire is to go straight, to break out of the loop. But to go straight, you've got to leave everything behind. Absolutely everything that catches us orbiting around the Human Place, be it good or bad.

To leave does not mean to deny and forget. I like this metaphor: don't let the world you know blind you like the Sun, its light should be like that of the Moon, soft, so that you could see all the stars and galaxies around, and choose where to go.

reply to post by QMask


Which is easy to say as a physical being that has always been and whose entire history and ancestry has always been. But if you have been a spiritual being for eternity and that is all you know (back to my original reply) you may decide you want something different...something you never had.

Anyway...cool topic!

Originally posted by CaptainAbstract

Originally posted by QMask
reply to post by MrConspiracy

 

That may be, but the thing is: I am tired of all the "learning". And I am sure I am not the only one.

Sure you're not!

I for one feel like I've already lived thousands of lives, and am really tired of going in circles. I've seen so much inside, so many different things someone might call transpersonal...

Indeed, the whole its history the humankind walks around in the same circle, just drifting a bit further from the center, so it's a sloooow spiral.. So much had changed in recent 100 years but nothing had changed big in an average human. It is still mostly an aggressive animal with advanced means of self-destruction and self-deception.

My desire is to go straight, to break out of the loop. But to go straight, you've got to leave everything behind. Absolutely everything that catches us orbiting around the Human Place, be it good or bad.

To leave does not mean to deny and forget. I like this metaphor: don't let the world you know blind you like the Sun, its light should be like that of the Moon, soft, so that you could see all the stars and galaxies around, and choose where to go.

edit on 20-1-2013 by CaptainAbstract because: (no reason given)

I have followed this thread for responses like yours, like poetry, and because the OP resonated with me, as did your response. I wonder, though, about your definitions of human....perhaps, or perhaps what isn't human here with us wishes us to see "human" in that particular light, so that we might dismiss and disregard what is human, and then humanity, a much bigger thing, really....

I wish to neither go in the loop nor go straight, as you characterize the directional choices....
Is there no other way? Perhaps this is just how we see the choices, as "flatlanders," only capable of seeing certain perspecctives as of right now.....at least I can hope so....

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by MrUncreated

 

No, actually. Most of the time I wish I were never born in the first place.

Most of the time? What about the rest of the time? You discovered the same thing everybody else feels... sometimes... too. That goes with the territory. Did you read that? Everybody feels the same way from time to time.

It's not a bad thing that you realize how awful these "feelings" can be. Just remember they are only feelings.

Feelings are okay... even bad ones.

I think about suicide every day, and it's only a matter of time before I just do it. With finality, this time. No one cares.

reply to post by tetra50


There are infinite number of ways, my friend, as long as you are free to choose...

And we surely are "flatlanders", but as to me, it's not about dimensions, but our binary logic. Our dualism. We are split into Agent and Beholder, and our whole life we are Beholder, who fools himself into thinking that it is him who makes decisions, while the one who really makes them is the Agent, few seconds ahead into future, and Beholder just registers the consequences of Agent's actions.

I'm telling it with confidence, because I've experienced the split, it was one of my scariest but enlightening experiences up to date. Imagine yourself splitting in two, one has your mind and vision, and the other has all your decisions and your bodily feeling, and they go out of sync, you do something, like, standing up, you feel that you stood up, but the vision tells you you're still sitting. Meanwhile, you decide to sit back because this wrecks chaos into your orientation in space... You feel that you sat down. But you see that the other one, the Beholder, stands up in this exact moment. Beholder is in terror of Agent going out of control, because there is no conscious mind with him, and Agent is desperately trying to reconnect with vision to control his orientation in space. The split is few seconds wide. Then a wild thing occurs, they briefly become back in sync, and then the Beholder is sent into future, seeing things he didn't command to do! It as absolute terror. You just go over rails which are there for you forever, this is your way through the universe, and you can't do anything to change direction. What's worse, you don't know where this way leads you unless something happens. You can't predict if you will jump out of the window in next few seconds or not...You see yourself going through a room to another room, and there sitting down in a chair, looking back to now empty space where your Agent decides to stand up, cross the room and finally sit back into Beholder.

Many years after I read an article about a scientific experiment involving measuring the delay between actual decision and action. People were asked to do something totally random, like moving a finger. People did, and while they thought they decided to move a finger at the exact instant they decided to do so, measurements of brain activity indicated that actual decision was made few seconds before!

The split is always there, completely unnoticed. So basically, the Agent is our subconsciousness, and the Beholder is consciousness.

Then one day I was explaining the Schroedinger cat experiment to my friend, and suddenly it correlated with my experience and that article I mentioned. It became clear to me, that Agent is the one who makes decision on cat's destiny: whether Beholder will register cat as dead or alive. For Agent, there is no chance, no fortuity; only conscious choice. And Beholder lives constantly worried by possible events that happen without his consent. World seems chaotic and dangerous to him.

So we can't be free until we unite them together, consciousness and subconsciousness, the Beholder and the Agent. Lots of mysticist and alchemist texts talk about the Union, the sacred Marriage.

How do we do that? I wish I knew. By hope and intention, I think...