Feminism & The Downfall Of The Traditional Family

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


An excellent post which pretty much describes how our situation used to be. After childcare and expenses my wife would take home less than £140 a month. The annoying thing was that she earned less per hour as a senior nurse managing a children's oncology ward (part time 2-3 days a week) than the child minder got looking after our 2 kids. My work (at the time) meant I was out the house from 6:15am through to 7:30pm so she had to do virtually all of the house work Monday-Friday. I have huge respect, admiration and appreciation for my wife, she works hard and gives 100% in everything she does. The role she's undertaken running our home is pivotal to our family's health and happiness and if I'm honest she has the more fulfilling and rewarding job. We're lucky in that my business pays enough for her not to work (now she works for something much more important than money).

reply to post by resoe26


I am afraid that is something like: 'male? catch him, use him sexualy, and cut his dick'

I felt this thread was moving from 'feminism' into a debacle between women who chose to

work and those who preferred to stay home...So I revisited the OP his first statement




1 # You cannot argue with facts and the fact is ever since feminism was introduced and

women have gained rights the traditional family life style has been on a steady decline...


Traditional family????

So I looked it up. The definition appears to be married

hetrosexual parents with two or more children. So where does that leave cohabiting

couples? couples with one or no children? same sex couples with or without children?

A new survey suggested less than one in five people believe they belong in a

traditional family: 77% believe single parents can be a family 59% believe same

sex couples can be a family however 33% do not consider same sex couples and

unmarried couples can be a family




2 # I do believe they should be considered and treated as human beings rather than a

slave in the household (how very patronising to even consider them as being anything

less than a human being) The problem is the majority of them either don't DO ANYTHING

in the household any more or do TOO MUCH and overstep their boundries (the audacity

of that statement leaves me breathless! WHO decides a woman's boundries in her

own home....surely it differs between couples, so WHO draws up this legislation

telling them what they can and can't do??




3 # I consistently see my peers being controlled by their female counterparts -


It is my experience that no one but no one knows what goes on behind closed

doors

and perhaps his peers LIKE being controlled (could be their kind of

comfort blanket?) After all apparently men who 'like' a dominatrix to humiliate them

are men who hold control in their business life...people who allow themselves to be

controlled are enablers so their choice




So the above three points in the OP are purely supposition on his part?

* There appears to be NO such thing as a traditional family

* He considers women ARE infact human beings

* And its only his personal view that his friends are controlled


The bold script are my thoughts ....................

I think what this really comes down to is a point that was already made in this thread. The "traditional" way has worked for thousands of years because it is based on the evolution of every other animal on this planet. The male has his role and so does the female. Both are equally as important. Evidence of this is the fact that the family really is falling apart simply because both roles are not being met.

The female lion hunts. The male lion protects the pride. If the female lion did not hunt, the pride would fall apart. If the male lion did not protect the pride, there would be no pride. People need to understand the males and females are not and will never be equal. Both play crucial roles based on what they're wired to do.

To all these femnazis that want to wear the pants in the relationship, and all these guys that allow their women to do so, I suggest homosexual relationships for both parties. It's more your place.

Women have always been "controlling". It's only the weak males that get controlled. Grow some balls and tell whoever your with for example... I like to ride dirtbikes, I like to walk in the garage in my socks, I like to scratch my ass and I like to play video games, if you can't respect that then I don't need to be with you. I only live once darling so I'm going to do whatever I want.

In this thread - Guys who can't get a date because they think they're too important, and women who have figured out how to ride the gravy train.

I don't know if you're actually interested in this subject or just venting, but I was very divided on the feminism question when I was younger and read a book called The Ladies Of Seneca Falls that explained what feminism was and why it happened from a historical perspective. It helped me better understand the issue. Like I said, you may very well be a conclusion jumper-toer who doesn't care to know the facts, but if you really are interested in an educated perspective, I'd recommend that book.

reply to post by ScarletNyx






OMG! I feel so inconsequential I couldn't be squeezed into either of those

categories What am I doing on here?

reply to post by resoe26


Ah Feminists.... I feel very sorry for them. I dated quite a few and they are extremely messed up people who are never quite satisfied with their life simply because they keep trying to be what they were told to be and try to deny what they really want as a woman.


It took me a while find a woman that was not tainted by this garbage. NOw i am happily married.

However the OP is spot on about how this has affected men. All men in sitcoms are depicted as stupid idiots and meatballs. The women are the ones who have the more capable mind and body.


Same goes for movies and such. Society is the family on a bigger scale. Our society is currently screwed up and getting worse. Feminism has a lot to do with this.

There will be no change till people understand men and women are different. They complement each other. There is no division between us even though we have been tricked into believing there is.

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by resoe26

 

Ah Feminists.... I feel very sorry for them. I dated quite a few and they are extremely messed up people who are never quite satisfied with their life simply because they keep trying to be what they were told to be and try to deny what they really want as a woman.


It took me a while find a woman that was not tainted by this garbage. NOw i am happily married.

However the OP is spot on about how this has affected men. All men in sitcoms are depicted as stupid idiots and meatballs. The women are the ones who have the more capable mind and body.


Same goes for movies and such. Society is the family on a bigger scale. Our society is currently screwed up and getting worse. Feminism has a lot to do with this.

There will be no change till people understand men and women are different. They complement each other. There is no division between us even though we have been tricked into believing there is.

Do please, share with me this big secret as to how exactly feminism has "affected" men, im dying to know!

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by resoe26

 

Ah Feminists.... I feel very sorry for them. I dated quite a few and they are extremely messed up people who are never quite satisfied with their life simply because they keep trying to be what they were told to be and try to deny what they really want as a woman.


It took me a while find a woman that was not tainted by this garbage. NOw i am happily married.

However the OP is spot on about how this has affected men. All men in sitcoms are depicted as stupid idiots and meatballs. The women are the ones who have the more capable mind and body.


Same goes for movies and such. Society is the family on a bigger scale. Our society is currently screwed up and getting worse. Feminism has a lot to do with this.

There will be no change till people understand men and women are different. They complement each other. There is no division between us even though we have been tricked into believing there is.

Do please, share with me this big secret as to how exactly feminism has "affected" men, im dying to know!

Its apparently turned them into someone who feels the need to constantly whine online about how hard they have it.

Its amusing that many here don't see the irony in calling for a return to old fashioned manliness yet they are on an internet forum crying and moaning to a board full of strangers. Isn't such a display of emotion traditionally seen as being more of a female quality? I thought the men of old were tough as nails and didn't complain.

There are a lot of myths about the whole traditional family thing. First the truth is it never really existed but on the TV and in peoples heads, families are as diverse as fingerprints and what applies to one does not necessarily mean that it can be applied to another, the whole nuclear family you see in the Sunday morning shows is and was a perpetrated myth in a lot of ways.

And second for something to have its fall it must first be prevalent and on top, it never was there, so how can something that never was high on such lofty heights, end up falling from them? The answer is, that it can not, and that its all smoke and mirrors.

On no something more is going on, then the silly stuff you all see on the tube. But hey things change, always have always will, one day things will change so much that even the fact that they stayed the same will become inapplicable, and irrelevant, not even on the same wavelength.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Meanwhile, of course, young girls are encouraged to act like loose older women. Some of the clothing they sell for LITTLE girls these days is extremely tacky! Some of the things parents do with their kids on some tv shows, even worse.

And you think that feminism is responsible for the sexualising of young girls? Really? This comment evidences the fact that you know little about the subject.

No, I said that there are several things working together. "Anti-male, anti-family, anti-morals; all tied together." I know quite a lot about the subject, and others that are working alongside it, causing problems for all of us. Besides which, "feminism" is a really poor term for that movement. It's more about being anything BUT feminine, and instead about being masculine. We can be equal without being identical. We are not identical, and will never be so. Women that want to be "just like men" - and don't say there aren't any, because I have known a TON of them - aren't feminine, and should not be called "feminists". I would say they have a real problem, with themselves. I am happy being a woman, and I don't need to act like a dude to feel good about myself.

Originally posted by boxertwin
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

An excellent post which pretty much describes how our situation used to be. After childcare and expenses my wife would take home less than £140 a month. The annoying thing was that she earned less per hour as a senior nurse managing a children's oncology ward (part time 2-3 days a week) than the child minder got looking after our 2 kids. My work (at the time) meant I was out the house from 6:15am through to 7:30pm so she had to do virtually all of the house work Monday-Friday. I have huge respect, admiration and appreciation for my wife, she works hard and gives 100% in everything she does. The role she's undertaken running our home is pivotal to our family's health and happiness and if I'm honest she has the more fulfilling and rewarding job. We're lucky in that my business pays enough for her not to work (now she works for something much more important than money).

Glad the two of you could get things worked out, so she could be home! I have never understood why some people think it's a "lesser" position to be in the home, and taking care of the children. Equal pay for equal work? You bet! Put down for choosing the children? NO! Some people forget a very important reality, as they place their children into the hands of others. "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world." Since when do we trust the politicians for that? Being a woman in the home is a powerful, and very important position, and not everything valuable brings in money.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes


No, I said that there are several things working together. "Anti-male, anti-family, anti-morals; all tied together." I know quite a lot about the subject, and others that are working alongside it, causing problems for all of us. Besides which, "feminism" is a really poor term for that movement. It's more about being anything BUT feminine, and instead about being masculine. We can be equal without being identical. We are not identical, and will never be so. Women that want to be "just like men" - and don't say there aren't any, because I have known a TON of them - aren't feminine, and should not be called "feminists". I would say they have a real problem, with themselves. I am happy being a woman, and I don't need to act like a dude to feel good about myself.

Yeah... Not sure how much experience you have with the subject, but you've shown how woefully misinformed you are about feminism. It's nothing to do with "acting like a dude" unless the individual wants to. It's their life, so why can't they? Is it preventing you from doing something?

Telling a woman that wants to be a game designer, or wants to wear baggy jeans, or wants to grow a dwarf beard that they're not "acting like a woman" is an act laced with bigotry, in my opinion.

What defines "feminine"? Why should you, one and only, get to define it? Why should wherever you get your inspiration from be the only authority on what perfect femininity is? Why should there even be an authority?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing the "traditional family"... when there's a free choice being made. But not everyone can fit the black-and-white choices that traditions generally offer.

There are self-proclaimed feminists who look down stay-at-home mums. Depending on the veeeeery occasional situation, I have to fight looking at it with a critical eye (but they have round-the-clock nannies and maids, she's a "homemaker" wtf?) but that's not my business.

In any case, if feminism is about choice, and the stay-at-home mum in question is happy at home, completely of her own volition, then surely they should butt out, right?

Right. But that's not all feminists. Same way that a few, but not all anarchists want to riot in the streets. Yes, stereotypes usually have some sort of factual basis, but they're mainly the exception, not the rule.

I come from a very nuclear family. Both my parents still work full-time though, and so did both my grandparents. No divorces, no controlling wives (or husbands, for that matter). Just people who made the best of the choices available to them.

People, regardless of sex, gender, class or race should never feel that they need to fit a "norm" based on those factors.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
Yeah... Not sure how much experience you have with the subject, but you've shown how woefully misinformed you are about feminism. It's nothing to do with "acting like a dude" unless the individual wants to. It's their life, so why can't they? Is it preventing you from doing something?

In a LOT of cases, it does have something to do with that. I am speaking from decades of experience, and from knowing people from all parts of the country, and other countries as well.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
Telling a woman that wants to be a game designer, or wants to wear baggy jeans, or wants to grow a dwarf beard that they're not "acting like a woman" is an act laced with bigotry, in my opinion.

I don't care what sort of pants someone wears, as long as they pull them up. As for a beard, well, women don't tend to grow those, so wanting one would be a sign that someone wanted to be like a guy. Call that whatever you want.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
What defines "feminine"? Why should you, one and only, get to define it? Why should wherever you get your inspiration from be the only authority on what perfect femininity is? Why should there even be an authority?

Try a dictionary definition of "feminine". Let me know when you figure it out.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing the "traditional family"... when there's a free choice being made. But not everyone can fit the black-and-white choices that traditions generally offer.

There is a difference between understanding that things happen sometimes, and that people might have to raise a child alone, or grandparents might have to, etc, and in trying to define any collection of people as a family.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
There are self-proclaimed feminists who look down stay-at-home mums. Depending on the veeeeery occasional situation, I have to fight looking at it with a critical eye (but they have round-the-clock nannies and maids, she's a "homemaker" wtf?) but that's not my business.

It's my business if someone asks like I am wrong for choosing to raise my own children. Known people that did, and known a lot more that are in the same place I am.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
In any case, if feminism is about choice, and the stay-at-home mum in question is happy at home, completely of her own volition, then surely they should butt out, right?

Yes, they should.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
I come from a very nuclear family. Both my parents still work full-time though, and so did both my grandparents. No divorces, no controlling wives (or husbands, for that matter). Just people who made the best of the choices available to them.

My parents were together till one died. My dad always worked, but Mom did only when absolutely needed. Grandparents all stayed together, and the women didn't work, except that my Mom's mom did after my grandfather on that side died. Very "traditional" families, for generations. Most of the cousins are more products of the times, and there are many divorces. Things changed in a single generation.

Originally posted by ihavenoaccount
People, regardless of sex, gender, class or race should never feel that they need to fit a "norm" based on those factors.

People should not be made to feel inferior for who they are. There, we agree. I will add, though, that people should not feel superior because of some difference, or get special privileges. Plus, if someone has an actual problem, they should not be told it doesn't exist. They should be offered help. Class and race issues are a whole other ballgame, and used as tools by those in control, for the most part.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


I think you missed my point. All I'm trying to get at is this. It should be the individual woman or man that defines femininity or masculinity for themselves. As long as they respect the freedom of others, that should be okay, and they are no less of a man or woman for it.

But I would like to hear a story about the feminists who outright say they want to be like men. Surely those are transgender people?

If forced to, I would probably define myself as a feminist, rather than the alternative. I have all the rights, compared to my male counterparts in the UK, that I could ever possibly want, so more so, I would class myself as an equalitist. There is still great inequity in this country, just not along the lines of gender anymore, that work has been done to the most part, and it is merely now a matter of ensuring that women have access to the information and resources available to them so that they can access the full range of choices available to them. In the wider world though, and why I would class myself as a feminist, women are still persecuted terribly based solely on gender. In some regions they still cannot vote, choose whether or who to marry, are not allowed control of their reproductive ability, are not permitted to own property or to be recognised in court proceedings. That work continues, and it has my full support. Women should be considered equal to men in the eyes of the law and state, and they should be able to make decisions for themselves in all aspects of their life. I want all women to have access to the same rights as I do, and that is ultimately better for their children.

That said, I do believe that having children is a responsibilty and should involve total commitment, and that, where possible, there should be someone, mother or father, available at all times to care for them. I do not understand parents who would rather pay someone else to have the privilege to raise their children for them. But I also understand that in some occupations, it is very hard to take the time out from your career without having to start back from scratch once the children have grown, and that it is therefore a long term sacrifice, or one, due to financial commitments that limits their choices. And, in some cases, the quality of child care is such that the children are not really missing out, and is outweighed by the fact that the time that they do spend with their parents is of very high quality. What works for some, most certainly does not work for others.

Ideally, I would like to see more parents choose to work part-time, both of them, dividing the financial responsibility and the child care between them. I feel sorry for some men who are forced to be distant from their children's upbringing, and who miss out on seeing their children achieve the goal posts as they grow up, or are merely the disciplinarian, in the traditional 'wait till your father get's home' capacity. Ultimately though, I have my child to raise, and I leave others to do the same. I think that most parents have their children's best interests at heart, and are doing the best they can with the opportunities and choices that are afforded to them.

Most recent studies have shown that if the parent/s are happy, then the children are too. So whether a family is the 'traditional' extended one, or a modern nuclear unit, or two seperated/divorced parents, or same-sex, or a single mother or father...as long as that or those parents are happy with the choices that they have made, then the child will be as well. Two people sticking together for the sake of it, will mess up their children, a stay at home Mum frustrated or bored, will mess up their children, a Dad resentful of being the bread winner and never at home, will mess up the children. So...find the balance that makes everyone in your family, traditional or otherwise, happy, and really, you can't go wrong

Originally posted by shapur
I think the best kind of family is the one with a provider father and a supportive (preferably stay home) mother...Taking care of the family and the household is the most important and enjoyable part of a women's life which has been replaced by artificial and useless outside jobs in the recent century...That's why we see more and more women who act like men and lots of men who act like women and kids who act like they are from Jupiter! and dogs who act like..well you get my grip...If we take our natural feelings,roles and duties off and replace them with something trendy and periodic,soon we will not even be sexually attracted to each other anymore and I do not think that is a good thing at all,since we all would be distinct...Not to mention the amount of pain and agony a kid has to go through with a bossy mom and a wussy dad who are rarely home anyways.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make in this thread.

Originally posted by Heisenberg59
I think what this really comes down to is a point that was already made in this thread. The "traditional" way has worked for thousands of years because it is based on the evolution of every other animal on this planet. The male has his role and so does the female. Both are equally as important. Evidence of this is the fact that the family really is falling apart simply because both roles are not being met.

The female lion hunts. The male lion protects the pride. If the female lion did not hunt, the pride would fall apart. If the male lion did not protect the pride, there would be no pride. People need to understand the males and females are not and will never be equal. Both play crucial roles based on what they're wired to do.

To all these femnazis that want to wear the pants in the relationship, and all these guys that allow their women to do so, I suggest homosexual relationships for both parties. It's more your place.

edit on 20-1-2013 by Heisenberg59 because: (no reason given)

Well put