The Palestinians' UN ploy is just the latest stalling tactic

reply to post by neo96


I agree, and my comments of Western evils was meant to be from the Palestinian perspective, not actually how I feel.

You're right that any effort in diplomacy from Hamas should be seen with a high amount of skepticism, given their history of violence and hostility.

Even so, from a strategic standpoint Palestine is well served by seeking international support.

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17


Indeed.

They should seek international support, while at the same time negotiating with Israel ( you can't just ignore them)


From what I can deduce from world events in the past few day's, many country's are ready to throw their support behind Palestine.


But.


They cannot expect such support if they continue to lob rockets into Israel and same goes for Israel.


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Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
The sub-title of the article is rather pathetic (not directed towards you OP).

There is no path to statehood for the Palestinians except through negotiation with Israel

What a crock of #

Israel does not want negotiations, when they portray the false illusion of wanting negoations they make ridiculous demands that they know the Palestinians will not agree with so they can say "hey, we tried, but the Palestinians don't want peace".

Last I checked, it was the Palestinians who were setting all of the pre-conditions before they would even agree to talks.

Originally posted by Deetermined


Last I checked, it was the Palestinians who were setting all of the pre-conditions before they would even agree to talks.

Well ..... if we are trying to agree on how to divide a pizza between us - its only polite to stop eating until we come to some agreement.

If the Palistinians really wanted peace then they have certainly choose the wrong path via Hamas.I don't see any peace possible while they are in power.

Both sides have made mistakes in the past. Its about that time where you have to realize you can't change what happened. Whats done is done.

Wipe the slate clean, forget about demands. Start from scratch and find solutions that work for all parties.

Building on the remnants of the past will do nothing but leave a weak point in the new structure that could be taken advantage of in the future.

Much like the tax system in the US. Until you have a total reform, some people will take advantage of the system. Sure its technically legal, up until the point where everybody cannot take the same advantages, then it becomes a big mess where any tampering with the system would cause the whole thing to go.

reply to post by Spike Spiegle

rom what I can deduce from world events in the past few day's, many country's are ready to throw their support behind Palestine.

Yep countries are chiming on in the issue of Palestine like China who denies Taiwan its right to independence, but supports the Palestinians.

The world is quite hypocritical.

Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by Deetermined


Last I checked, it was the Palestinians who were setting all of the pre-conditions before they would even agree to talks.

Well ..... if we are trying to agree on how to divide a pizza between us - its only polite to stop eating until we come to some agreement.

Even when Israel stopped expanding, the Palestinians wouldn't talk without pre-set borders of their own conditions along with making Jerusalem their capitol.

That's what is really going to set any talks back. Neither side will relent on Jerusalem and neither wants to split it up.

reply to post by neo96


Well said.


Coincidentally I am working on a thread all about Taiwan




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reply to post by flice

I honestly believe that Abbas wants this thing to be over... and I honestly believe that the palestians in general wants this to be over. Why would anyone not just want a life in peace to do things freely and live like any other person on the planet should be allowed to? That's what I want... I don't see them wanting anything different. We are the same....

As for Abbas, I think he wants it over. As for the Palestinians, the non-Muslim Arabs want it over with, but the die hard Muslim Arabs do not. It's against their religion to concede any of the land to the Jews. Abbas is proving to be a moderate (for now), which is why Hamas and Iran hate him.

reply to post by neo96

So now the Palestinians outsourced yet again to the UN so I do have to agree with the Palestinian UN ploy is just to buy time for more rockets to be sent to Hamas.

And Irans proxy war using Hamas will continue to be used as another stall tactic to buy time for Iran to finish going nuclear.

Actually, it might be even worse. I read earlier today that Egypt had stopped two separate shipments of weapons and rockets coming from LIBYA from crossing the border into Gaza in the last week.

Originally posted by triune
Thats definately a double sided coin. The Palestinians dont want just a little bit more room, they want all of it, and they will not stop fighting until they get it all.

The Palestinians dont want peace with the Jews. They want the Jews gone.

Regardless of any "historical" claim to the land by the Jews (which itself is on such thin Ice it might as well be floating around the equator!), the fact remains that the bulk of Israel's population arrived in the 30's and 40's. Prior to the massive Jewish immigration from Europe and beyond, the number of Jews in Palestine was but a minority. The British tried, in vain, to stop the flood of people arriving and paid for it in blood.

Now, considering the above, how would you feel if a hundreds of thousands of people who claim the land you live on because their "ancestors" (that in itself is a contentious point) lived their 2,000+ years ago, proceeded to evict you, your family and your entire community by the barrel of a gun, then herd you into cramped conditions in a worthless bit of land, only then to blockade even the most basic goods.

How would you react?

Once you get past the whole "Israel's right to exist" and look at it objectively, you can begin to understand why the situation is as it is. The land belonged to the Arab inhabitants and the Israeli settlers stole it from them.

Even today, they continue to steal the land with their settlements and the big wall, yet the Palestinian Arabs are painted as the villains. What kind of world do we live in where someone can steal your house, force you to live in the shed at the bottom of the garden and yet still have you held up as the villain and an obstacle to peace?

Originally posted by Deetermined
Even when Israel stopped expanding, the Palestinians wouldn't talk without pre-set borders of their own conditions along with making Jerusalem their capitol.

That's what is really going to set any talks back. Neither side will relent on Jerusalem and neither wants to split it up.

Israel continue to build settlements in the occupied land. The Palestinians are actually being quite reasonable by saying Israel should stick to the 1967 borders, because if you look at the 1947 borders, the land is split 50/50 and Jerusalem was supposed to be their capital. Annexing land unilaterally isn't allowed under the UN charter, yet Israel is the only country in the world that has been allowed to get away with it, making their country far larger, stealing fertile land and controlling the water all the while forcing millions to live in squalor.

The link below is a conspiracy theory that is a time line. it shows that Israeli response to Hamas occurred on weekend after the President of the Palestinian Authority told Obama he was going ahead with the UN plan. Israel government officials are stating they are going to destroy the President if he goes ahead and on the same time air attacks began and a militant was killed as well as a number of Gazans. You can read about it here.

reply to post by stumason

Once you get past the whole "Israel's right to exist" and look at it objectively, you can begin to understand why the situation is as it is.

Once you look at the entire history of the region objectively, you can begin to understand how the Ottoman Empire couldn't even control the hostility between the people in the region and it's always going to be a lost cause.

reply to post by Deetermined


As far as I can tell, the only problem the Ottomans had in the region was from other invading states, such as Egypt. From the Ottoman conquest in 1510 up until the 19th century, there was barely a revolt to speak of, the first being in 1834 in response to massive conscription to fight the Egyptians. That's nearly 300 years of relative peace until the early dawn of Arab nationalism. Of course, if you can point to me some info that shows other events, that would be great

As for the population, Ottoman/British census info shows that, up until the outbreak of WW2, over 90% of the population was Arabic with only 4% as Jewish. Almost the entirety of modern day Israel's population migrated there after WW2. How is it that anyone can defend such a blatant act of colonisation and ethnic cleansing is beyond me.

Originally posted by Spike Spiegle
reply to post by MysterX

 

I wish to remind everyone, that I remain completely neutral on this matter.

I don't back Israel anymore then I do the Palestinians.

You guys get so mad, so quick, so quick to judge...

I simply stated some facts.





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edit on 023030p://pm3004 by Spike Spiegle because: the

edit on 023030p://pm3023 by Spike Spiegle because: (no reason given)

Your headline spoke volumes about what you meant.

Remember Lord Moyne.

Remember the King David Hotel.

Remember Rachel Corrie.

And for God's sake, remember the USS Liberty.

This is just a random thought I had so bare with me...


What if the U.N were to ask Australia for a chunk of land, pay whatever they ask for it.


Now just like the Jew's got to resettle in the Holy Land, perhaps the Palestinian's might also be able to settle in "Aussie" land and enjoy a new homeland without having to deal with Israel anymore.


Israel wins and so does Palestine.


Now this doesn't take into account logistics or logic for that matter


Just a thought I'm spinning around in the old brain box.


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reply to post by TheHammer22


My headline?

You mean the articles headline, which I had to post word for word as befits the news forum.


I remember those events or at least I remember reading about them.


I still remain neutral



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reply to post by TheHammer22


President Shimon Peres of Israel & President Abbas of Gaza both endorse UN nonmember status. There has been no negotiations between Gaza & Israel for 2 years.