Canadian Mosque Preaches Jihad..

Originally posted by Muaddib
You don't seem to differentiate between radical Muslims and moderate Muslims....we are talking about radicals Muslims and what the Koran teaches. I gave you a link to the Koran, read it and then come back and tell us it is a peaceful book, and Mohammed was a peaceful man...

Muaddib dude I see your point as well but we to have had dealings and you seem to be hanging on like a tick on a hound .....Durben agreed to drink a beer and pull back and I know you can do the same common man...

Exscuse the pun but cant we all just get along.......Its a proven fact that both of you are pationate of your views but in the maylay of your present fued the rest of us have had to take a sit down and I think the flow was interupted....now if Durben is willing to be cool can you not as well ....in fact can you both let it go for a while I know both of you can be cooler than you are now......

So given the contrary attitudes I know not to be indicative to both of you...pull back and breath Durben you go drink your beer dude and Muaddib man get some fine wine and relax for a while ok.

You two dont make me out the liar when I say you are both better than is now showing.....

Originally posted by Muaddib
You do not want to accept that the christian crusades was a response to the Muslim crusade, later on it became an attrocity against many, including non-muslims.

Still this rather tiresome comprehension problem. Now what was it that you said again?

Now I am not claiming that all Muslims follow this radical view of Islam, but it is the way it was meant to be followed and it is exactly the first thing that the newly converted Muslims did in the Dark Ages...

So I ask you again... what is your point and what is it you're proposing?

Well I guess Ill see you guys after your drinks okay I will check in periodically for a sign you two are back to the way I know you guys fair yet pationate and above all usually polite and calm.....I look forward to coming back to the thread soon you guys please make it sooner rather than later okay I enjoy our usuall interlectual jousts .....Peace!!

Originally posted by Durden
.......................
So I ask you again... what is your point and what is it you're proposing?

The point is that the conflicts that radical Muslims are involved in are not caused by what the US or Israel has done, if this was so there would be no other radical muslim conflict anywhere else in the world, yet more than half of all conflicts have radical Muslims as the cause.... The US was attacked, the only possible anwser was to attack back, whether or not people want to admit it Iraq/SAddam was part of the problem.....

The question is not what I propose, as something is already being done about it by the coalition..... the question is, what is it that you are proposing?....since you seem to think what is being done is wrong....

Do you think all conflicts in which radical muslims are involved will stop with your suggestion? If Israel and the US did not exist, you think there would be no other conflicts and wars in the world in which radical Muslims are involved?

BTW, if it was up to me i would love if there was only peace all over the world, but peace is just a time in between wars, and history has proven this.

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
The question is not what I propose, as something is already being done about it by the coalition..... the question is, what is it that you are proposing....since you seem to think what is being done is wrong....

Aren't we talking of the 'violent' Quran anymore..? Tell me, what is it that the coalition has done about muslims in general, their belief system and their holy book?

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Durden]

Originally posted by Durden

Aren't we talking of the 'violent' Quran anymore..? Tell me, what is it that the coalition has done about muslims in general, their belief system and their holy book?

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Durden]

What exactly did the world do for radical Muslims to bring more than half of the world conflicts/wars?.... If the Koran/Quran was so peaceful, why is it that most of these wars and conflicts involve radical muslims?....why is it that they fight their own people?...those that do not follow Sharia or the Koran to the letter...

The coalition is fighting two wars, yet the radicals are involved in more than 12 conflicts/wars all over the world...without counting terrorist attacks in which some countries have done nothing in retaliation..

Do you have any idea that there are American soldiers that have died trying to save Iraqis from insurgent attacks? not all iraqis are being killed by the coalition, and of course the media does not report this.



[edit on 25-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
What exactly did the world do for radical Muslims to bring more than half of the world conflicts/wars?.... If the Koran/Quran was so peaceful, why is it that most of these wars and conflicts involve radical muslims?....why is it that they fight their own people?...

...And you keep avoiding my question:

What is it that the coalition has done about muslims in general, their belief system and their holy book?

And if nothing is being done in this aspect; what exactly do you propose should be done?

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Durden]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Islamic extremist started in the middle ages in the first Muslim crusades and has never died....

Actually, after being stopped by Charles Martel at Poitiers in 732 and again by Charlemagne at Roncevaux in 778, the Muslims (actually, the Moors) gave up on the conquest of Europe. Even when the continent was ravaged by the Vikings and the Magyars in the 9th and 10th centuries and weakened as a result, there was no Muslim onslaught.

Actually, the Muslims, between 800 and approximately 1400, developed a really enlightened culture. Most of the scientific discoveries made at that point were made either by the Chinese or by the Muslims, and Muslim art was at its pinnacle.

Not only that, but even during the Crusades, faced with angry Christians, the Muslims still managed on occasion to display a code of honor - Saladin, among others, was renowned for his kindness; when young king of Jerusalem Baldwin the Leper died in 1185, Saladin ordered a cessation of hostilies so the Christians could properly mourn and bury their leader. It should be noted that the Christians were not often as generous.

www.muslimheritage.com...
members.tripod.com...

Originally posted by Durden

What is it that the coalition has done about muslims in general, their belief system and their holy book?

And if nothing is being done in this aspect; what exactly is it you're proposing should be done?

Durden......how many conflicts are there in the world in which radical Muslims are involved and in which the coalition has never been there?......

You keep trying to blame that the response from radicals is that the coalition is doing nothing for them.....yet, they are fighting in half of the world, committing mass killings even on their own people.... in some cases just because of racial differences.....

Do tell me.....would there be no Muslim radicals involved in any conflicts in the world if the coalition did not exist?............

And what in the world does the coalition have anything to do with the Koran?.........

I told you already........what the coalition is doing is the only thing that would resolve all these conflicts......well, not resolve, but it is better than to give up on their demands....

How do you respond to people that are asking to have back all the lands they used to have in the Middle Ages? what do you do if people commit mass killings and start up wars because they want Kashmir, Jerusalem, Andalusia, (which is all of Spain to the Muslims) Italy, France......

What do you do when they ask even more, when they ask that the world should submit to Islam?........

You tell me....what do you propose?




[edit on 25-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
You do know they conquered Spain, Italy and France...don't you?

Wrong. The North African Moors (Muslim) did conquer the Wisigoth kingdom of Spain in 712-713, and tried to push into France in 732. Didn't work.

In my last post, I made a mistake. There were raids by Muslims in Southern France and Sicily from approximately 850 AD to 1050. But no permanent occupation on the continent, expect for Sicily.

Originally posted by Otts

Wrong. The North African Moors (Muslim) did conquer the Wisigoth kingdom of Spain in 712-713, and tried to push into France in 732. Didn't work.

In my last post, I made a mistake. There were raids by Muslims in Southern France and Sicily from approximately 850 AD to 1050. But no permanent occupation on the continent, expect for Sicily.

They didn't try to get into France, they went through the pyrenees and into France but where pushed back.

The Moors were a nomadic people from North Africa; originally they were the inhabitants of Mauretania. They invaded Spain, taking their Islamic religion and culture with them, in 711, where they overran the Visigoths. They spread northward across the Pyrenees into France, but they were turned back by Charles Martel and his Frankish knights in 732.

Excerpted from.
staff.esuhsd.org...



Here is another quote.

On July 9, 721, an Islamic force that crossed the Pyrenees and invaded the Kingdom of the Franks was defeated by them near Toulouse

Excerpted from.
encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

There was an invasion in France by the Muslims.

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Jakomo said: September 11th had more to do with American foreign policy over the last 30 years than ANYTHING to do with the religion of Islam. If you don't realize this then you should educate yourself.

By denigrating people's beliefs, you anger them.

This is what amazes me on this forum. A few American posters seem to believe that by denigrating or accusing from on high - either the Muslims, the French or the Canadians - they will confound these people, cause them to admit to their wrongdoings and wickedness, and get them to beg for forgiveness. And then these American posters seem so surprised when Muslim, French or Canadian posters are offended and lash out. It's as though they believe no one outside America or Britain is entitled to have pride.

I understand why Americans are angry about 9/11, really I do. But accusing Islam, blaming France and sneering at Canada's weakness is not going to solve the matter and bring peace. If anything, it'll just make people that angrier at you.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Durden......how many conflicts are there in the world in which radical Muslims are involved and in which the coalition has never been there?......

Does this answer my question? No.

You keep trying to blame that the response from radicals is that the coalition is doing nothing for them.....yet, they are fighting in half of the world, committing mass killings even on their own people.... in some cases just because of racial differences.....

I'm sorry, I said what? I mean really, talk about putting words in the mouths of others..

Do tell me.....would there be no Muslim radicals involved in any conflicts in the world if the coalition did not exist?............

And what in the world does the coalition have anything to do with the Koran?.........

I told you already........what the coalition is doing is the only thing that would resolve all these conflicts......

And this answers my question....how exactly?

How do you respond to people that are asking to have back all the lands they used to have in the Middle Ages? what do you do if people commit mass killings......

This is amazing. All these words and no answer to what I asked you. You stated earlier that the teachings of the Quran were violent and although not all muslims are behaving like the radical groups, you stated:

...but it is the way it was meant to be followed and it is exactly the first thing that the newly converted Muslims did in the Dark Ages...

IMO, essentially saying that the way the violent extremists read the Quran is the way it should be read an acted upon. This is what I responded to initially. I also asked you what you, in light of this view of yours, propose?

You stated that something is already being done about it by the coalition. And I obviously wondered what you meant by that?

Is this a difficult question?

Originally posted by Otts
Jakomo said: September 11th had more to do with American foreign policy over the last 30 years than ANYTHING to do with the religion of Islam. If you don't realize this then you should educate yourself.

By denigrating people's beliefs, you anger them.

Sure, poor radical Islamists...they are waging wars all over the world, committing mass murders even among their own people, and sending their own kids to blow themselves up and kill others, because the west did them wrong....

Muaddib - I didn't say that what the terrorists are doing is right. It's violent, it's horrible and it won't solve anything. But blaming it on all the Muslims or their religion isn't going to solve anything either.

Muaddib:

your stupidity makes you blind to what is truly happening....radical muslim conflicts account for more than half of the world's wars at this moment without counting terrorist attacks to nations that decided not to do anything against terrorism and radical muslims....

Either you're a liar or you're misinformed. You choose.

Radical Muslim conflicts account for more than half the world's wars at this moment WITHOUT counting terrorism? PROVE IT OR DON'T SAY IT. You can't prove it because it's not true.

So then you ARE a liar.

If not, prove it.

yet more than half of all conflicts have radical Muslims as the cause....

More lies. What percentage?

What exactly did the world do for radical Muslims to bring more than half of the world conflicts/wars?....

Again, you say it like it's the truth, but again, it's a lie.

And don't be insulted that I call you a liar. You should just learn to get better at it.

I suggest you read the Qu'ran or actually SPEAK to a Muslim. Your "facts" are not facts and your "truths" are lies.


May God forgive you for your hatemongering.



jako

Originally posted by Durden

IMO, essentially saying that the way the violent extremists read the Quran is the way it should be read an acted upon. This is what I responded to initially. I also asked you what you, in light of this view of yours, propose?

Was Mohammed a peaceful man? or did he raid caravans even after he converted to Islam and supposedly got the Koran by ways of the angel Gabriel?...... how did he make a living if not by raiding caravans?... Muhammed raided caravans, asking for 1/5th of the loot for himself including the women, killed the men and took the wives of these men as captives, he took many wives including a 6 year old which to him was his favourite wife. He took them after making them see the beheadings of their husbands, fathers, and brothers....

Let's quote somethings from the Koran....

008.067
YUSUFALI: It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
PICKTHAL: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Excerpted from.
www.usc.edu...


Let's see what some radical Muslims are doing nowadays in comparison to what Mohammed said..

A woman and teenage girl who were raped and abducted by soldiers in Western Darfur have claimed that the Sudanese army organised airlifts of sex slaves to serve as the "wives" of government soldiers in Khartoum. Their accounts appear to corroborate claims made privately by Sudanese and United Nations officials, and are the latest evidence that government forces are involved in activities which Khartoum blames on the Janjaweed militia.

Excerpted from.
www.jihadwatch.org...

Is what Mohammed did, or what present day radicals who are following on Muhhamed's steps and continuing doing that peaceful to you?

Originally posted by Durden
You stated that something is already being done about it by the coalition. And I obviously wondered what you meant by that?

Is this a difficult question?

Humm, let me see....oh yeah the coalition were just going around throwing roses at the feet of saddam, a regime that was funding and was helping in many ways terrorism against the west.......

Didn't the coalition oust Saddam? didn't Libya get rid of its wmd programe and announced publicly that other regimes in the middle east should do the same and denounce terrorism?......

Do not tell me that I am not anwsering when i did......

You are expecting another anwser and this is why you can't understand, or even accept the anwser i am giving you....

i have no proposal to make except what the coalition has been doing...how the heck do you propose this is resolved? how do you think you can stop more than half of the conflicts in the world in which radical muslims are involved?..........

The one that keeps avoiding to respond the questions is you....

What do you propose since you seem you have a better choice than what the coalition has been doing?....

Is that a difficult question for you?....

Originally posted by Otts
.................
Actually, the Muslims, between 800 and approximately 1400, developed a really enlightened culture. Most of the scientific discoveries made at that point were made either by the Chinese or by the Muslims, and Muslim art was at its pinnacle.
.................

The culture that you speak so eloquently about was provided not by Muslims...but mostly by those nations Muslims conquered, like the Assyrian Christians....

Armed with the word of God, Assyrians once again transformed the face of the Middle East. In the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries they began a systematic translation of the Greek body of knowledge into Assyrian. At first they concentrated on the religious works but then quickly moved to science, philosophy and medicine. Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Galen, and many others were translated into Assyrian, and from Assyrian into Arabic. It is these Arabic translations which the Moors brought with them into Spain, and which the Spaniards translated into Latin and spread throughout Europe, thus igniting the European renaissance

By the sixth century A.D., Assyrians had begun exporting back to Byzantia their own works on science, philosophy and medicine. In the field of medicine, the Bakhteesho Assyrian family produced nine generations of physicians, and founded the great medical school at Gundeshapur. Also in the area of medicine, Hunayn ibn-Ishaq*s textbook on ophthalmology, written in 950 A.D., remained the authoritative source on the subject until 1800 A.D.

In the area of philosophy, the Assyrian philosopher Job of Edessa developed a physical theory of the universe, in the Assyrian language, that rivaled Aristotle*s theory, and that sought to replace matter with forces.

Excerpted from.
www.aina.org...

The Assyrians were the true natives of Iraq and parts of Iran before the Moors invaded their lands....there are still Assyrian Christians, who converted willingly not by force, living in Iraq and I have posted many times what they have gone through because of the private war Saddam was waging on them... Most of the Art and culture was what the Assyrians had been able to accomplish, not the Moors....

By: John J. Nimrod, Illinois State Senator and Homer Ashurian, Representative: Iranian Parliament

The Assyrians of today are descendants of the ancient Assyrian people who built the mighty empires of Assyria and Babylonia. They rose to power and prosperity in Mesopotamia which mainly consists of modern-day Iraq. Assyrian's played a major role in the foundation of civilization and mankind. After the fall of the Assyrian and Babylonian empires respectively, in the seventh and sixth centuries BC., Assyrian's were reduced to a small nation living at the mercy of their overlords in the vastly scattered lands of the Middle Eastern region.

Assyrians are Christians, and their church dates back to the time of Christ. In the first century, they were among the first people to embrace Christianity. Living apart from the Christian world, the Assyrians almost came to losing their identity as a nation. It was not until the middle of the 19th century, when they came in direct contact with the western world, did their existence attract the attention of the world as a whole.
.....................
In return to the loss of their homeland in Hakkari � Turkey, and in compensation for stupendous losses inflicted on them during the Great War, Assyrians were promised by the Britain, France and Russia alike, a safe and independent homeland. This promise was not fulfilled and the Assyrians were again betrayed and left alone in a situation that culminated in the terrible massacre of non-combatant population in Simeil, Iraq in 1933. From this time forward, the Assyrian Diaspora started, and they began to flee in all directions as stateless refugees to find a safe haven and to protect themselves from total elimination until such a day when their voice would be heard through an international forum.

Excerpted from.
www.assyriannation.com...

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Humm, let me see....oh yeah the coalition were just going around throwing roses at the feet of saddam, a regime that was funding and was helping in many ways terrorism against the west.......

Didn't the coalition oust Saddam? didn't Libya get rid of its wmd programe and announced publicly that other regimes in the middle east should do the same and denounce terrorism?......

What does this have to do with the question I asked you?

The one that keeps avoiding to respond the questions is you....

What do you propose since you seem you have a better choice than what the coalition has been doing?....

Is that a difficult question for you?....

What is it about my questions that can't comprehend? Are you simply plain incoherent to the actual questions I'm posing?

Why is it that you seem think that I'm the one who should solve an issue that you seem to have? I'm not the one stating that the teachings of the Quran are violent if they are followed 'correctly' (in your opinion).

Try again. And put some more effort into your reply. And I mean brain-wise. Long posts with little to no content pertaining to the issue at hand doesn't do anything to clairfy your opinion in this.


[edit on 25-10-2004 by Durden]

Long posts, which you obviously did not read......, with links and evidence that Islam is not peaceful is not proof to you?......