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Originally posted by vincere7
Originally posted by paperclip
Just because somebody offers you the reason why killings are commited, that doesn't mean we support or condone them.
Now, to something else.
There is a fundamental flaw in that statement. It is not killing that gets you to heaven. It is your will to give up your own life to DEFEND your family, country, land or faith, that opens the gate of paradise.
I emphasize the word "defend" here, because according to Qur'an, that is one of two times a killing is allowed.
Jihad is a term used to describe the complexity of this inner struggle, and part of it contains the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good: your own life.
So, yes, Jihad does guarantee a place in heaven, only Jihad is not what you (or bin Laden for that matter) think it is. Your understanding of it is very vague, incomplete, inaccurate and very simplified.
I had no idea that a person called paperclip was the voice of Islam.
In case you are ignorant of the facts of reality like pretty much every peace loving muslim who has posted on this thread SUICIDE BOMBERS generally are not DEFENDING jack #e. Shall we delve into all the killing and bombings over the last decade for ample evidence or would you like to paint another picture of voluptuous frogsh%*t.
If your idea of a complex inner struggle includes blowing bus fulls of children up you are sick twisted individual willing to say anything to justify what HAS hhappened and WILL continue to happem. Inner struggle. YES it's an inner struggle within Islam it's called TO MURDER or NOT TO MURDER. Sadly many muslims choose the first option.
Lets see jihad is not what I or Osama think it is. Please Mr. Paperclip will you stand up and tell the rest of the suicide bombers and those about to fly anymore airplanes into our buildings that they are not thinking correctly that their understanding of it is very vague, incomplete, inaccurate and very simplified.
By the end of the day we will count how many muslims listen to YOUR peace loving beliefs instead of jihad as described by mohammed. It's real easy to find out just follow the dead bodies.
Originally posted by Muaddib
you obviously do not know that the first and longest crusade was made by the Muslims.
Originally posted by Durden
Originally posted by Muaddib
The Qoran has many verses which contradict each other
As does the Bible. Tell me, are you a religious man, Muaddib?
Originally posted by Durden
Oh, the 'longest' crusade? Is that what we're talking about now? Well tell me Muaddib, what is the time limit for a crusade to count?
Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Bryan,
People have convinced themselves for all time that it is right and good to kill other people in the name of their respective gods. Why would it be any different now, in this modern age? You'd be surprised how easy is it, with god and religion, to believe yourself out of your natural conscience. Hell, some people leave their consciences behind for a paycheck.
We are killers, all. Some just more disciplined than others.
[edit on 25-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]
Originally posted by Muaddib
The Christian crusades was a response against the Muslims trying to conquer and force Islam on the world.
Originally posted by Muaddib
No, I am not a religious person. Wether or not you want to believe it, i am a spiritual person, but i adhere more to a zen Buddhist kind of view, in which if you are attacked it is your right to defend yourself.
Originally posted by Durden
Originally posted by Muaddib
The Christian crusades was a response against the Muslims trying to conquer and force Islam on the world.
Now are you saying that the christian crusades essentially were self-defensive in nature and that the atrocities perpetrated only were against muslims?
Originally posted by Durden
Now are you saying that the christian crusades essentially were self-defensive in nature and that the atrocities perpetrated only were against muslims?
Originally posted by Muaddib
No, the Christian crusades also became an aberration and many injustices were caused later on, but it was a reaction from what happened when the Muslims went out to conquer the world.
BTW, yous till did not anwser my question....do you know the times for the Christian and the Muslim crusades?
Originally posted by Muaddib
The difference is that Jesus was not raiding caravans and was not going around with a sword teaching his people to kill those who do not believe.
Originally posted by Durden
You obviously agree that atrocities have been perpetrated in the name of the Christian belief as well. So what is your actual point, Muaddib?
Originally posted by Durden
Do I have to point out how ridiculous that question really is? Think about it, Muaddib...
Originally posted by Durden
Originally posted by Muaddib
The difference is that Jesus was not raiding caravans and was not going around with a sword teaching his people to kill those who do not believe.
Wait, are we to believe you think Jesus was part of the christian crusades?
Originally posted by Durden
Originally posted by Muaddib
The difference is that Jesus was not raiding caravans and was not going around with a sword teaching his people to kill those who do not believe.
Wait, are we to believe you think Jesus was part of the christian crusades?
Originally posted by Muaddib
Read above...the point is the main prophet of Islam was not a peaceful person....how can you expect all Muslims to be peaceful? Radical Muslims kill moderates because moderates do not follow the laws of the Koran and Sharia as they are supposed to be followed, this is not my statement but theirs.
Durden...how many Christians are going around blowing themselves up and others in the name of religion?.........
Many Christians are extreme in their belief but they do not go around with an M-16 killing people, or beheading people....
Originally posted by Muaddib
Originally posted by Durden
Originally posted by Muaddib
The Qoran has many verses which contradict each other
As does the Bible. Tell me, are you a religious man, Muaddib?
No, I am not a religious person. Wether or not you want to believe it, i am a spiritual person, but i adhere more to a zen Buddhist kind of view, in which if you are attacked it is your right to defend yourself.
Originally posted by Muaddib
To you it is easy to say ridiculous now, to me it tells me you did not know and didn't want to be caught with your foot in your mouth.
Originally posted by Durden
Are you serious? I asked you to think about it. Evidently you chose to take the easy way out. Tell me, do you often do so?