Prophecy being Fulfilled before your Eyes - Egypt in Chaos under a Cruel Master

Originally posted by thePharaoh

i get most news comming out of egypt..

also. you got google havnt you, how hard is it to check yourself

I have, that's why I suggest you use links. There's plenty of information coming from Iranian officials on "wiping Israel from the pages of time", "removing Israel from the geographical scene", "wiping Israel from geographical history", "Death to Israel", and more....

Take your pick and use Google yourself.

the sinai desert is`packed with networking terrorists..who live in the most lawless conditions...and sinai is bigger than britian....how can you dismiss them and claim iran is helping?...its just a way of implicating morsi with iran...but that will come later..you will see

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh thanked Egypt and Iran on Thursday for their support in helping make “Israel scream with pain,” he said. ”If you commit, we will commit. If you do not commit, the rifles are in our hands,” he said.

He said “it’s a sign of pride to the whole world.” We “did not raise a white flag. Israel screamed with pain from what the resistance did to it. I thank everyone who provided us with arms and money, especially Iran.”

www.independentsentinel.com...

only isreali leaders talk like that....

I don't think so, but if you can up with another translated video that came out from al-Zawahri on this, let me know.

Zawahri said the United States was propping up Assad because it feared the rise of another Islamist regime to threaten its ally Israel.

"Supporting jihad in Syria to establish a Muslim state is a basic step towards Jerusalem, and thus America is giving the secular Baathist regime one chance after another for fear that a government is established in Syria that would threaten Israel," he said.

and...

More than 20,000 people have been killed in the 18-month uprising against Assad, who claims that his government is battling militants who want to set up an Islamist state. The protest started as a pro-democracy protest movement but has since turned into an armed conflict with sectarian aspects.

www.reuters.com...

Originally posted by Deetermined

I have, that's why I suggest you use links. There's plenty of information coming from Iranian officials on "wiping Israel from the pages of time", "removing Israel from the geographical scene", "wiping Israel from geographical history", "Death to Israel", and more...

Take your pick and use Google yourself.

ok , you like links then
here

thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...

www.cbsnews.com...

politicalvelcraft.org...

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh thanked Egypt and Iran on Thursday

lol...BS..he didnt thank russia who helped...but he thanked iran for doing nothing lolol

for their support in helping make “Israel scream with pain,”

wow to the BS
did isreal scream in pain? or was it gaza?

stop listening to isreali translators

he said. ”If you commit, we will commit. If you do not commit, the rifles are in our hands,” he said.

im not going into this BS ...but...an enemys enemy is a friend...ever heard that

He said “it’s a sign of pride to the whole world.” We “did not raise a white flag. Israel screamed with pain from what the resistance did to it. I thank everyone who provided us with arms and money, especially Iran.”

how convienient

www.independentsentinel.com...

use another "independant" source....independant in aiding isreal..lol

I don't think so, but if you can up with another translated video that came out from al-Zawahri on this, let me know.

cut the crap.. i dont discuss coments comming from CIA agents...keeping this fake war on terror going
i had the same feeling with osama, they know where he lves, he has a swiss bank account, and most likely visted by one of our doctors twice a month

we cant let the war on terror die...can we....lol

reply to post by thePharaoh


Well, I see you couldn't counter any of my sources, so you just call "BS" over and over again.

Your credibility in this thread was just shot.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by thePharaoh

 

Well, I see you couldn't counter any of my sources, so you just call "BS" over and over again.

Your credibility in this thread was just shot.

oh was that your aim

i can knock your comments for six....but i cant help think your not genuine

thats cool... i respect your views...even though they are completely out of touch

do you live in any of the "Marge & Homer Simpson" states...i blame the TV

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Have you ever thought, maybe these bible "prophecies" are being fulfilled because people actually BELIEVE in them and are trying to MAKE them happen because of the "Good" stuff that is supposed to happen at the end (Return of Christ/Messiah - then eternal bliss in Heaven)?

Muslims don't read the Bible so much and the Coptic Christians are a minority in Egypt. Most people in the world are secular so I doubt many are reading Isaiah 19 with an eye to self-fulfill a prophesy in Egypt. Are you listening to what you are saying?

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

they will consult the idols and the spirits of the dead, the mediums and the spiritists.

how can this be, when the overwhelming majority is of muslim faith ?

Wikipedia

Islam
Within Islam, certain traditions, notably Sufism, consider communication with spirits possible.[8] Additionally, the concept of Tawassul recognises the existence of Good Spirits on a Higher Plane of existence closer to God, and thus able to intercede on behalf of humanity.

Shaikh of Islam Ibn Taimiyyah on the Use of Mediums

Shaikh of Islam Ibn Taimiyyah

On the topic of SPIRITUALISM is an 'Ilm' or 'Knowledge'

SPIRITUALISM is an 'Ilm' or 'Knowledge', which has been gained by communication with the Spirit World. We only seek the teachings of the highest and best in the Spirit World, who tell us the importance of Love, Peace, Harmony, Kindness, Healing and Service to others.
The old 'Ilm' of 'Ro-hany-iah' (Spirit Awareness) is a central part of Islam, but has been suppressed into secrecy by modern Muslim Scholars; the exact opposite of what is needed!

Muslim Spiritualists see no distinction between a person's earthly Gender, Ethnicity, Age, Wealth, Education, Abilities or Disabilities, 'Fiqh' or Religious creed, as we are all just Spirits within Allah's vast Creation.

A Muslim Spiritualist is a sensitive person who loves Allah, but Questions the Teachings of the Muslim establishment: Much that is written in Islamic textbooks about 'Life after Death' and 'Gender' is not authoritative; communication with Higher Spirits proves this!

Note from the editor: Great quote on the Spirituality page of the site: "Knowledge can be a Wall to Love and Light! When knowledge satisfies, the heart closes!"

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Additionally, the concept of Tawassul recognises the existence of Good Spirits on a Higher Plane of existence closer to God

what do you think, the veneration of saints and angels in christianity is ?

reply to post by EnochWasRight


The vast majority of muslims consider the worship of idols and consulting of spirits as a major sin.
Christians will alter their own perception of reality to make the pieces of prophecy fit the way they want to.

Not surprising coming from you, since you believe the Israelite tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh are actually the America and Britain.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You think only non-Muslims will be fooled when the Anti-Christ shows up?

As far as we know, those nations trying to destroy Israel may be the ones who are given the "strong delusion" to believe in him.

I will stir up Egyptian against Egyptian— brother will fight against brother, neighbor against neighbor, city against city, kingdom against kingdom. 3 The Egyptians will lose heart, and I will bring their plans to nothing; they will consult the idols and the spirits of the dead, the mediums and the spiritists. 4 I will hand the Egyptians over to the power of a cruel master, and a fierce king will rule over them,” declares the Lord, the Lord Almighty

Have you any idea how many times in history this quote could have applied to the egyptian people ?


How about the plague in Alexandria in 229 BC, which fits the biblical mumbo-jumbo fortune telling just as well, or in fact, much better..


The plague of 229 BC caused the egyptian people to rebel against their ptolemaïc (greek) rulers and in the process they also rejected the greek gods, returning instead to the worship of the old gods such as Isis in the hope that they would be protected from the plague (worship of the dead, mediums and spiritists). Guess what happened just after that, in 221 BC ? Well, ptolemaïc rule began to falter for the first time since the greeks took power in Egypt, ultimately leading to takeover by the roman empire (cruel master, fierce king blablabla).

Guess why I mention this event in particular ?

Well it turns out that most of the bible books were written well after the "author" says they were. The book of Daniel is a prime example of this. Historians and a majority of bible scholars now estimate the book of Daniel to have been written around 265 BC (3 centuries AFTER the events depicted), giving the appearance of being prophetic, when actually, it turns out that the book of Daniel is just a poorly documented history lesson, doctored to "predict" events that had already come to pass.

Honestly, this is probably exactly the same. Someone took the events of 229 BC and "predicted" them in a book that we are supposed to believe was written centuries before.

Even if I'm wrong, how is this a prophecy ? Vague words that could apply to any kind of crisis. I've seen better ones inside fortune cookies.

Nothing to see here, move along...

reply to post by Ismail

Well it turns out that most of the bible books were written well after the "author" says they were. The book of Daniel is a prime example of this. Historians and a majority of bible scholars now estimate the book of Daniel to have been written around 265 BC (3 centuries AFTER the events depicted), giving the appearance of being prophetic, when actually, it turns out that the book of Daniel is just a poorly documented history lesson, doctored to "predict" events that had already come to pass.

Majority of Bible Scholars? Sorry, but for every "scholar" who thinks the book was written after the fact, there are others tearing their theories apart.

"The Date and Authorship of the Book of Daniel"

www.spiritandtruth.org...

Regardless, what explanation do you have for all of the prophecy written in the Old Testament regarding the coming of Jesus and what he would do once he was here on earth?

reply to post by Deetermined


"Spiritandtruth.org" ?

Sounds like a real objective source...

Let's try something more mainstream, ok ?

Wikipedia is everyone's friend

Though traditionally the book was believed to have been written by the Daniel figure of the court tales, today the scholarly consensus is that it is a product of Maccabean times. Though many evangelical commentators still defend a sixth century date, for mainstream scholarship the issue was settled over a century ago [2] The common view is that the court tales represent a stratum of older, traditional stories, while the visions and final redaction of the work date to the second century BCE.

My "explanation" for the Jesus thing ? What Jesus thing ? People of the jewish faith are still waiting for the son of god, they believe Jesus was a fraud. The Torah is essentially the Old testament, so they are going by the same prophecies christians are.

Who is right ? Probably neither.

Originally posted by Ismail


Wikipedia is everyone's friend

Though traditionally the book was believed to have been written by the Daniel figure of the court tales, today the scholarly consensus is that it is a product of Maccabean times. Though many evangelical commentators still defend a sixth century date, for mainstream scholarship the issue was settled over a century ago [2] The common view is that the court tales represent a stratum of older, traditional stories, while the visions and final redaction of the work date to the second century BCE.

The only problem with this statement is that it's just a repeat of a statement that someone else made in 2002. The person who wrote the statement in 2002 says they used one source written by a J.A. Montgomery in 1927 to come to their conclusion. I didn't see any sources listing all of the scholars who thought that J.A. Montgomery's view was the end all for this debate, except for the person who made the statement in 2002.

My "explanation" for the Jesus thing ? What Jesus thing ? People of the jewish faith are still waiting for the son of god, they believe Jesus was a fraud. The Torah is essentially the Old testament, so they are going by the same prophecies christians are.

The Old Testament is filled with detailed descriptions of how to recognize their Messiah, unfortunately, Jesus met every one of those descriptions and requirements and the Jews ignored it at the time. Since then, we now have a Messianic Jewish movement for those who did/do recognize Jesus as the one that was predicted in the Old Testament to be their Messiah.

Originally posted by The GUT
Whether this particular theory is spot on or not, I've noticed that as the prophetic scenario becomes more undeniable and seemingly obvious, folk have gone from, "It's all B.S.!" to claiming that it's all a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy.

With the secular majority and the differing religions involved, that theory just doesn't hold water. So what does that leave? Prophecy is, it seems, as noted by the OP, being fulfilled before our very eyes.

"Self-fulfilling" prophecy, at least, does not compute.

edit on 25-11-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

Depends on the Self that is doing the fulfilling of the prophecy. That Self being Yahveh. Even Jesus was fulfilling prophecy, and knew he was doing it and he was doing it on purpose.

Take for instance when Israel became a nation again after 2000 years, secular people howl that it was just people pulling strings to make it happen, but christians know that when Yahveh scatters people, no man can undo that, and when he opens a door no man can shut it, and when he closes a door no man can open it. He has also used nations to pronounce his judgments against other nations, when he didn't take a more hands on approach.

reply to post by Deetermined

The Old Testament is filled with detailed descriptions of how to recognize their Messiah, unfortunately, Jesus met every one of those descriptions and requirements and the Jews ignored it at the time. Since then, we now have a Messianic Jewish movement for those who did/do recognize Jesus as the one that was predicted in the Old Testament to be their Messiah

They failed to pay heed to Gabriel, he told them the King of Israel was going to come riding through the East Gate of the Old City on a donkey colt (where the islamic quarter now sits), which is why Jesus sent his disciples running forward shouting "Hosanna in the Highest" and people were laying down palm fronds in front of him and cheering.

Even Daniel said he would come before the destruction of the second temple, and they ignored that too.

Daniel 9:25-26

25 “Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

This happened 2000 years ago when the Messiah was cut off (killed) for the sake of others, the people of the prince to come was Titus' army, the flood was his army washing over Jerusalem and destroying it and it was destroyed for a second time around 135 A.D. after a failed second rebellion.

So you see? The orthodox jews of today ignore Daniel. If the Messiah didn't come before the temple was destroyed the second time, then he never will come and they believed in lies. If you notice, they have to seek Jesus' face before he returns.

Hosea 5:15

15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”

Matthew 23:37-39

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Which brings:

Zechariah 12:10

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

It's not enough that they seek an unnamed Messiah, they have to seek Jesus (Yeshua), and he will not return until they do. The children of the pharisees can call him back and theyre the only ones who can, and it is for this reason that Jacob's Trouble (Great Tribulation) falls on them. When they see Rosh HaShana come for the christians and jewish christians, they will know we were not lying and remember and their jealousy will cause them to seek Jesus.

Aaaaaannnnd, we are now completely off-topic.

Back to matters at hand, throughout the centuries, men have searched the Bible and believed that the "prophecies" they read applied to them, or to some event that they were witnessing. The Bible has been a successful pillar of faith because of it's extensive "interpretability", the same goes with any other sucessful ideological or religious text.

This is know as the Forer Effect

Anyone can do it, but usually it's the trademark of showmen or professional scammers.

It's easy to predict the end of a civilisation : eventually, you will be right. Curiously, or should I say, predictably, no prophet actually uses any kind of accurate timeline, or speaks in anything other than riddles. Because if they did, the forer effect would have none.

reply to post by Ismail

Back to matters at hand, throughout the centuries, men have searched the Bible and believed that the "prophecies" they read applied to them, or to some event that they were witnessing

Yes they did, but they were missing one very important key to correctly interpreting the prophecies. That key is the history of Israel. By knowing the history of Israel (not talking the modern secular state), you can know which events have already happened and which events are yet to come.

For the last 2000 years people were saying Jesus was coming back soon, and he was and still is because to him he has only been gone 2 days, but what they were also missing is the history of Israel. You want to know just how close we are to his return? Look HERE.

By knowing the history of Israel (not talking the modern secular state), you can know which events have already happened and which events are yet to come.

Well that's if you believe the generalistic ramblings of the bible are actually prophecies.
Allow me to redirect you to the link I provided in my last reply.

Originally posted by Ismail

By knowing the history of Israel (not talking the modern secular state), you can know which events have already happened and which events are yet to come.

Well that's if you believe the generalistic ramblings of the bible are actually prophecies.
Allow me to redirect you to the link I provided in my last reply.

They were prophecies and they did come true. Cyrus was mentioned 200 years before he was born by Isaiah and prophecied that he would send the jews back and rebuild the temple that hadn't been destroyed yet.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Yup. And others did'nt.

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanuel.

(the translation of virgin is very liberal, the hebrew word actually means young women).

I can spout mumbu-jumbo all day, and some of it will get right. Some of it will get wrong. That's not divine, it's just statistics.