Toxic Lies

Recently the federal government added
58 types of cancer to the list of covered illnesses for people who were exposed to toxins at the site of the WTC in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks.


Can we all agree that the Government had no problems with lying to it's own people about the toxic dust at ground zero?

The White House pressured EPA to go as far as editing their own reports and telling the Ground Zero workers that they can't wear masks because it would scare other people. Somebody at the White House actually conspired to put their own people in a very toxic environment unprotected and as a result we now have people suffering from 58 types of cancer.

With that said... Why some people find it so unlikely that the very same Administration that had no problem with giving people cancer and sending their own to war based on a lie could have conspired to attack their own people is beyond me.

reply to post by maxella1


A couple of problems....workers were encouraged to wear masks at Ground Zero. Those who DID wear masks regularly, do not have near the amount of health issues of those who rarely/never wore masks.

Next, not entirely sure what "lies" you think were used to take us to war......

reply to post by vipertech0596

Next, not entirely sure what "lies" you think were used to take us to war......

Hahaha Stop being silly... You know what lies were used very well.

I should rephrase that many of the ground zero workers simply weren't provided the N95 masks. I know a few people who were there and say that they were given surgical masks because respirators would scare people.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by maxella1

 

A couple of problems....workers were encouraged to wear masks at Ground Zero. Those who DID wear masks regularly, do not have near the amount of health issues of those who rarely/never wore masks.

Next, not entirely sure what "lies" you think were used to take us to war......

lol I hope you're kidding. If not, here ya go:

Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

The study was based on a searchable database compiled of primary sources, such as official government transcripts and speeches, and secondary sources -- mainly quotes from major media organizations. See CNN viewers' reactions to the study

The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

Kinda sounds like this:

Judge to al Qaeda, Iran, Taliban: Pay $6B for 9/11

Iran Could Have Nukes by Next Summer, Netanyahu Warns U.N.

It's becoming a system:

Step 1. Blame someone for 9/11

Step 2. Claim they have weapons of mass destruction

Step 3. INVADE

Originally posted by maxella1

Why some people find it so unlikely that the very same Administration that had no problem with giving people cancer and sending their own to war based on a lie could have conspired to attack their own people is beyond me.

Hmm. It shouldn't be. Simply tot up the amount of evidence for each proposition and all will - or should - become clear.

Originally posted by maxella1
With that said... Why some people find it so unlikely that the very same Administration that had no problem with giving people cancer and sending their own to war based on a lie could have conspired to attack their own people is beyond me.

Maybe I can explain. Lying does not require much competence, you just say some words that you know are untrue. And as we can see governments suck at it a lot as lies are exposed on almost a daily basis.

However, pulling of a 911 conspiracy like truthers are suggesting requires the government to have god like competence, which they clearly don't have. On top of that the evidence in support of such a theory is extremely weak.

And that is why I find it so unlikely. It has nothing to do with ethics.

Ah yes, because 9/11 was entirely done to go into Iraq. Of course! Thats why there were Iraqi hijackers, Iraqi planners, Iraqi financial investors in the plot, tons of intel showing Iraq as the mastermind of 9/11. Of course!

It would behoove the OP and those that believe that 9/11 was a plot to go into Iraq, to know that those 935 "false pretenses" were to get into Iraq, AFTER 9/11. That is AFTER Afghanistan. Now did Bush take advantage of 9/11 to go into Iraq? Sure. Does that mean 9/11 was a lie? nope.

reply to post by vipertech0596


Wepons of mass destruction????

I don't know why they never included more to begin with, because the toxins in the debris were well known, but it's not exactly a big lie. People knew from day one that there was still asbestos and tons of other really nasty stuff in the air.

reply to post by homervb


Where do you think Syria got those WMDs we are worried about right now? And yes, we DID actually find WMDs in Iraq, just not nearly the amount as we originally thought.

Then there is the Al Qaeda-Iraq link. Despite what most think, there were several verified Al Qaeda links...just none that linked Iraq to 9/11. Although, to THIS DAY, Czech intelligence insists that Mohammed Atta met with the Iraqi Ambassador.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by homervb

 

Where do you think Syria got those WMDs we are worried about right now? And yes, we DID actually find WMDs in Iraq, just not nearly the amount as we originally thought.

Then there is the Al Qaeda-Iraq link. Despite what most think, there were several verified Al Qaeda links...just none that linked Iraq to 9/11. Although, to THIS DAY, Czech intelligence insists that Mohammed Atta met with the Iraqi Ambassador.

While I agree with you that the administration's activities with regard to Iraq don't suggest in any way that they were involved in 9/11 - the opposite, in fact - you must surely admit that they behaved despicably in creating their casus belli?

reply to post by Varemia

People knew from day one that there was still asbestos and tons of other really nasty stuff in the air.

I agree.
I think that many of the people involved in the clean up took the macho attitude. Choosing to ignor the obvious in favor of "I'm gonna get this done".

I don't think anyone would think that breathing any kind of smoke for 8 hrs or more a day for weeks is acceptable.
I'll bet they would now advise their children differently now.

Originally posted by GenRadek
Ah yes, because 9/11 was entirely done to go into Iraq. Of course!

Thats why there were Iraqi hijackers, Iraqi planners, Iraqi financial investors in the plot, tons of intel showing Iraq as the mastermind of 9/11. Of course!

It would behoove the OP and those that believe that 9/11 was a plot to go into Iraq, to know that those 935 "false pretenses" were to get into Iraq, AFTER 9/11. That is AFTER Afghanistan. Now did Bush take advantage of 9/11 to go into Iraq? Sure. Does that mean 9/11 was a lie? nope.

I didn't say 9/11 was a plot to go in Iraq, I think 9/11 is used to invade ANY country. Al-qaeda is apparently all over the world which makes Bush's "you're either with us or against us" speech work for any where in the world. Those 935 lies include lying about WMD intel, Al-Qaeda-Iraq connection, and chemical weapons.

And Bush had Iraq in his crosshairs before 9/11

Here's a news report that came out in the early hours of 9/11/01

U.S. spy drone missing over Iraq

September 11, 2001

The official Iraqi News Agency reported on Tuesday that Iraq's anti-aircraft forces shot down a U.S. spy plane near the southern port city of Basra.

The Pentagon confirmed it had lost contact with a $3.2 million RQ-1B Predator unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV).

Pentagon officials said it would take them some time to determine whether the drone had malfunctioned or had been shot down, but they confirmed it was overdue for return.

Iraq claimed to have shot down the same kind of craft in the Basra area on August 27, and the Pentagon acknowledged losing a plane in that area.

Coincidentally we were gathering intelligence on Iraq BEFORE 9/11 and BEFORE the war in Afghanistan. Does this mean 9/11 was a lie? Not necessarily. Does this mean there's a possibility it was a lie considering more lies were created to connect 9/11 with Iraq? Of course it does. Our own government was allowed to lie to us 935 times to induce a war that resulted in a massive cost and loss of our troops which resulted in nothing but that. We're not talking about bad intelligence that was gathered, we're talking about lies that took time to create and expose to citizens of the US. If 935 lies are going to be told by multiple elements of the government why is it wrong to question such things as the mysteries surrounding Able Danger, the bin Laden raid, KSM trial, etc.?

Anything surrounding 9/11 has some type of wall between itself and the American people. Able Danger - all files deleted, bin Laden raid- not one consistent story or shred of evidence that bin Laden's dead, KSM- completely censored trial which is only being viewed by a SELECT few of 9/11 victims families. Didn't the government say 9/11 was orchestrated by "Al-Qaeda" because they hate OUR freedoms and securities? Did they not kill thousands of OUR fellow citizens? I'm pretty sure the alleged terrorists who were on those planes didn't have a hit list of specific people to kill that day, it was pretty much the general public they were looking to kill. Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist, and he killed innocent American civilians, was there any mystery surrounding the investigation? Hell no. So I'm sorry, but I have every right to believe there's something being hidden behind the official story.

Originally posted by homervb
Coincidentally we were gathering intelligence on Iraq BEFORE 9/11 and BEFORE the war in Afghanistan. Does this mean 9/11 was a lie? Not necessarily. Does this mean there's a possibility it was a lie considering more lies were created to connect 9/11 with Iraq? Of course it does.

This kind of logic is flawed. If the government has never lied before, it would have been just as possible that they did lie about 911. The track record is irrelevant. Anyone can lie, no matter someones history. What matters is the evidence.

So I'm sorry, but I have every right to believe there's something being hidden behind the official story.

The thing that is "hidden" is that people in power (ab)used an event for their own agenda. Things like this happen on a daily basis, but it in no way means that the people making use of these events are in any way complicit. Again, that requires evidence, of which there is none.

double post

reply to post by TrickoftheShade

Hmm. It shouldn't be. Simply tot up the amount of evidence for each proposition and all will - or should - become clear.

In my own words I will describe the Evidence for each proposition. If you don't know how to Google for sources I'm sure there's a tutorial somewhere, and I will provide the link if needed...

Ground Zero toxic dust:

The EPA tested the the quality of air at ground zero and found that it is toxic and unsafe to breathe without protection... White House made them edit the reports and tell people that the air was safe to breathe knowing that the toxins will cause cancer for which there is no cure. (i.e. people will die)

Iraq:

The Government told people that Iraq has WMD's and asked people to imagine a scenario where ~~ Al Qaeda (the group of terrorists that hijacked four airplanes and used them as weapons to kill 3000 civilians by destroying three skyscrapers, and even successfully attacking the Pentagon) get the WMD's from a psycho dictator who hates America and already used WMD's on his own people in the past.

The people imagined that scenario (basically the end of the world) and said to the government ~~~WHOLY SHI* ! We all gonna die ! The Government said to the people ~~ don't worry we have a lot of weapons, all we need to do is go to Iraq and get the WMD's before it's too late.. The people said to the government ~~~ WOW that makes us feel safer already... Lets do it !

So we go over there and start looking for the WMD's but we can't find it.. The Government said ~~the WMD's are definitely there, we need more time. People said ~~~Okay here's more time.. But as time goes on more and more troops come home dead and more and more money is being spent people find out that the story of Iraq having WMD's was made up by an informant and the Government pretty much knew that it wasn't true and didn't even try to collaborate the informers' story (because it didn't really matter since they wanted to go into Iraq anyway).

The people were like ~~~WHOLLY SHI* Government! That's totally not cool ! Are you going to stop the war or what?

The Government said ~~~NOPE ! The People said ~~~Oh that's okay just don't do it again.

9/11:

Tuesday morning September 11, 2001 Some people arrived at work and some people board airplanes when all of a sudden they get murdered in horrific act of war (only not by an army with tanks and bombs) but somebody with hijacked commercial airliners. Other people are rushing in to rescue the victims of this attack while the entire world is watching in shock what is happening when all of a sudden huge skyscrapers collapse killing thousands of human-beings.

The Government said to the scared and angry and heart broken people ~~~ America and freedom itself is under attack by terrorists and we have no idea how this happened because we never even imagined that this type of attack could happen. Nobody waned us and we had no indications that hijacked planes would be used to kill innocent people. It was a surprise. The people said ~~~ yeah that is pretty unbelievable that airplanes would be used. Just make sure this will never happen again. As time went on the people find out that in reality this wasn't a surprise at all and said ~~~ Hey Government WTF ? And the Government said to the people ~~~Yeah we kinda lied about almost everything that happened before the attacks but we only did it because we didn't want you to know that we are really incompetent. Surely you people understand why we lied.. The people said ~~ yeah that's okay just don't do it again..

As time goes on people like Richard Clarke, Michael Scheuer and Lt Col Anthony Shaffer and many others keep writing books about how the Government had multiple opportunities to prevent 9/11 but willingly refused to do it and kept ignoring warning after warning for some reason. And the people are like ~~~ the Government is so incompetent that they can only start wars not prevent them.

To sum it up... I have a question, what is the difference between actions that resulted with Americans getting cancer even though it could have been prevented, actions that resulted in Americans going to war even though it could have been avoided if they checked the source of the WMD story, and actions that resulted in 3000 American citizens and residents being murdered even though it could have been prevented by responding to all the warnings of a planned attack?

reply to post by -PLB-

Maybe I can explain. Lying does not require much competence, you just say some words that you know are untrue. And as we can see governments suck at it a lot as lies are exposed on almost a daily basis.

Does it require competence to avoid consequences of getting caught lying?

Or do you think that they didn't successfully avoid consequences?

reply to post by vipertech0596

Where do you think Syria got those WMDs we are worried about right now? And yes, we DID actually find WMDs in Iraq, just not nearly the amount as we originally thought.

So is it official now that we didn't find the WMD's or "the amount as were originally thought to be there" because it's actually in Syria? How long did we know this exactly?

Then there is the Al Qaeda-Iraq link. Despite what most think, there were several verified Al Qaeda links...just none that linked Iraq to 9/11. Although, to THIS DAY, Czech intelligence insists that Mohammed Atta met with the Iraqi Ambassador.

Yeah just like the Kuwaiti incubator babies, and the anthrax from Iraq stories...

Originally posted by maxella1
Does it require competence to avoid consequences of getting caught lying?

Or do you think that they didn't successfully avoid consequences?

Still, avoiding the consequences of lying still doesn't require you to really do much, except say the right words at the right time to the right people.

The conspiracies I am reading on this board on the other hand, require god like competence. These conspiracies contain RC planes, explosives, thermite, destruction of physical evidence, fake eyewitnesses, fake victims, fake footage, complicit emergency services etc, the list goes on.