17-Year-Old Kills His Mother and Sister, Calls 911 to Turn Himself In

Originally posted by abeverage
I know I will be blasted for this but...

Video Games, Media, Violent Television are all creating unfeeling monsters...

They do not see the real very REAL repercussions of actually shooting someone! They see it almost like a cartoon, imaginary and wonder hmmm what would happen if I ....

You don't need to be on medication when you have been conditioned into an emotionless zombie!

This makes me horribly sad and I have condolences for the family left to deal with this act.

edit on 11-10-2012 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

I'm not going to blast you, but sigh...I have to comment. I've been arguing this idea since I was in high school debates.

So, I grew up with heavily violent media. I've loved horror movies since I was a pretty young child. My mom likes to tell the story of when she tried to watch Fatal Attraction and covered my eyes at the bad parts. And I started crying because I didn't get to see the blood. I was young enough I don't even remember this happening. You could ask why my mother was letting me watch it, but it was a different time and I was a different kind of kid I guess, because my brother wasn't allowed to watch ANYTHING.

I've always watched violent horror movies and television. I listened to violent metal music when I was a teenager. I've read dozens of violent, gory murder books. I've played Grand Theft Auto and many first person shooters.

According to those that believe in this violent media makes violent kids idea, I should be out there with a machete slicing people up right now! I should be SO desensitized that when I see a horrible murder on the news I should giggle with glee! Yet somehow, I have no desire to and never would. Murders, kidnappings, rapes...all of it is heart breaking and a lot of it makes me cry. How is this possible?

What is the difference between my extremely violent media background, and someone who can murder another without emotion?

I don't have a mental disorder. Since a young age, I have known what is real/fake and what is right/wrong.

Psychotics are not made through media. They can get ideas from media, but it isn't a direct cause. There is something wrong with the way their brains process. I think their childhoods can play a PART in this psychosis, but for the most part, it was already THERE.

/rant


One more thing, and I am NOT directing this at you abeverage, just posters in general. Whenever a teenager/kid commits a horrible murder, the first comments are always about the violent media causing it. All the time.

For one, do we even know what kind of stuff this kid watched? Maybe he really liked the nature channel, or PBS.

Secondly, when an adult commits a horrific crime, why DON'T people blame the media? At what age does the violent media stop affecting people? When they turn 18?

The police: when seconds count, they are 24 minutes away (and you have to give them directions and codes to get in the community)

Methinks there is an increase in this sort of behavior, but no doubt the naysayers will exclaim "this has always been going on"

WHAT A TIME!!....MICHAEL MYERS FOR REAL IN HOLLOWEN EVE??!!....GOSHHH!!MOVIES ,CAN BE REAL..........DONT LET HIM OUT FOR REASON OF INSANITY NOW,,WE PEOPLE WONT BE SAFE.....ALL OF YOU, KNOW WHAT HAPPEND NEXT...........

Originally posted by tport17

Originally posted by abeverage
I know I will be blasted for this but...

Video Games, Media, Violent Television are all creating unfeeling monsters...

They do not see the real very REAL repercussions of actually shooting someone! They see it almost like a cartoon, imaginary and wonder hmmm what would happen if I ....

You don't need to be on medication when you have been conditioned into an emotionless zombie!

This makes me horribly sad and I have condolences for the family left to deal with this act.

edit on 11-10-2012 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

I'm not going to blast you, but sigh...I have to comment. I've been arguing this idea since I was in high school debates.

So, I grew up with heavily violent media. I've loved horror movies since I was a pretty young child. My mom likes to tell the story of when she tried to watch Fatal Attraction and covered my eyes at the bad parts. And I started crying because I didn't get to see the blood. I was young enough I don't even remember this happening. You could ask why my mother was letting me watch it, but it was a different time and I was a different kind of kid I guess, because my brother wasn't allowed to watch ANYTHING.

I've always watched violent horror movies and television. I listened to violent metal music when I was a teenager. I've read dozens of violent, gory murder books. I've played Grand Theft Auto and many first person shooters.

According to those that believe in this violent media makes violent kids idea, I should be out there with a machete slicing people up right now! I should be SO desensitized that when I see a horrible murder on the news I should giggle with glee! Yet somehow, I have no desire to and never would. Murders, kidnappings, rapes...all of it is heart breaking and a lot of it makes me cry. How is this possible?

What is the difference between my extremely violent media background, and someone who can murder another without emotion?

I don't have a mental disorder. Since a young age, I have known what is real/fake and what is right/wrong.

Psychotics are not made through media. They can get ideas from media, but it isn't a direct cause. There is something wrong with the way their brains process. I think their childhoods can play a PART in this psychosis, but for the most part, it was already THERE.

/rant


One more thing, and I am NOT directing this at you abeverage, just posters in general. Whenever a teenager/kid commits a horrible murder, the first comments are always about the violent media causing it. All the time.

For one, do we even know what kind of stuff this kid watched? Maybe he really liked the nature channel, or PBS.

Secondly, when an adult commits a horrific crime, why DON'T people blame the media? At what age does the violent media stop affecting people? When they turn 18?

edit on 11-10-2012 by tport17 because: (no reason given)

Ever see a snuff film any of the many faces of death? How do those make you feel? I am very curious of what the Grindhouse Gore porn is doing to anyone's mind. I can only watch so much of them because I identify to easily or empathize with the victims.

Never once did I say that that watching this made you violent...in fact I said something quite different. I said it was making a disassociation with a violent act and feeling! Desensitization in itself is not the problem, but it creates a lack of remorse or empathy and is generated by seeing violence as being mundane or common.

Contrary to the popular Media makes you violent, I actually think it does something very opposite, it makes you Apathetic (just like in this crime he was not even sure why he did it!).

It is conditioning that makes for observers of a violent real act instead of taking action and involvement in stopping the violence. How many times now do we see people stop, stare, pull out the smart phone and video a crime instead of stopping it? People who do not interfere when there is a rape occurring because they do not know what to do. This actually creates a more docile public.

No, the shooter in this case is most likely mentally ill, but what I was getting at is he saw no problems or repercussions of his act! He was genuinely surprised when he shot his sister, that she would cry for help or screamed at how much it hurt instead of just dying! His recourse was not to get her help as an empathic person would, No it was to shoot her again in the head to stop her screaming! He does not have the ability to feel other peoples pain, and yeah I think seeing something repetitiously can create this. This to me is much worse then creating Violent behavior!

I worked in a hospital it was never easy, you never got over it (if you feel) but you got past it...

At what age does this end? Psychologists would say maybe 25-30 or when your mind is more fully developed. Some who do not develop empathy could become a serial killers or go on a killing spree with zero remorse.

Sounds like either he's a psychopath or mind control...I mean from the conspiracy angle, maybe there's a reason he would be brainwashed to kill them but I have no clue....probably just your everyday psychopath.

reply to post by Majestic Lumen


The problem you are having OP, is that you are trying to find sanity in an insane act... That's why it does not sit right. Because you are looking for order where there is none to be found.

Originally posted by abeverage

Ever see a snuff film any of the many faces of death? How do those make you feel? I am very curious of what the Grindhouse Gore porn is doing to anyone's mind. I can only watch so much of them because I identify to easily or empathize with the victims.

Never once did I say that that watching this made you violent...in fact I said something quite different. I said it was making a disassociation with a violent act and feeling! Desensitization in itself is not the problem, but it creates a lack of remorse or empathy and is generated by seeing violence as being mundane or common.

Contrary to the popular Media makes you violent, I actually think it does something very opposite, it makes you Apathetic (just like in this crime he was not even sure why he did it!).

It is conditioning that makes for observers of a violent real act instead of taking action and involvement in stopping the violence. How many times now do we see people stop, stare, pull out the smart phone and video a crime instead of stopping it? People who do not interfere when there is a rape occurring because they do not know what to do. This actually creates a more docile public.

No, the shooter in this case is most likely mentally ill, but what I was getting at is he saw no problems or repercussions of his act! He was genuinely surprised when he shot his sister, that she would cry for help or screamed at how much it hurt instead of just dying! His recourse was not to get her help as an empathic person would, No it was to shoot her again in the head to stop her screaming! He does not have the ability to feel other peoples pain, and yeah I think seeing something repetitiously can create this. This to me is much worse then creating Violent behavior!

I worked in a hospital it was never easy, you never got over it (if you feel) but you got past it...

At what age does this end? Psychologists would say maybe 25-30 or when your mind is

I have actually seen a Faces of Death but it was different entirely because it is real.
I mentioned being desensitized in my post as well. I said I don't feel like I am desensitized at all. I still have emotion and compassion. I still value life. Violent movies didn't make me feel okay about a real person being killed. That is what I was trying to say with all of that.

But honestly I don't want to argue the fact. I just wanted to state my view on the subject.

As far as this boy not seeing a problem or repercussion with killing his mother and sister....I wonder if you listened to the audio clear to the end?

In the majority of the audio he does seem uncaring. Until the last 1-2 minutes. He starts saying how he didn't want them to hurt or feel pain which is why he used a gun. He wanted it to be quick. He then starts to cry a little when talking about his sister. I'd have to go listen again, but I believe he even says something about regretting what he did. Something like, "I don't know why I did this."

Is that the emotions of a normal person? No, you're right, a normal person wouldn't have shot their family and if they did accidentally they would have helped them. But he does have SOME emotion, empathy, and regret.

Originally posted by tport17
I have actually seen a Faces of Death but it was different entirely because it is real.
I mentioned being desensitized in my post as well. I said I don't feel like I am desensitized at all. I still have emotion and compassion. I still value life. Violent movies didn't make me feel okay about a real person being killed. That is what I was trying to say with all of that.

But honestly I don't want to argue the fact. I just wanted to state my view on the subject.

As far as this boy not seeing a problem or repercussion with killing his mother and sister....I wonder if you listened to the audio clear to the end?

In the majority of the audio he does seem uncaring. Until the last 1-2 minutes. He starts saying how he didn't want them to hurt or feel pain which is why he used a gun. He wanted it to be quick. He then starts to cry a little when talking about his sister. I'd have to go listen again, but I believe he even says something about regretting what he did. Something like, "I don't know why I did this."

Is that the emotions of a normal person? No, you're right, a normal person wouldn't have shot their family and if they did accidentally they would have helped them. But he does have SOME emotion, empathy, and regret.

edit on 11-10-2012 by tport17 because: (no reason given)

Do you have children? I applaud you at being good at knowing the difference between reality and fiction. Most children do not until around 10-14 some (the ones who try JackAss tricks not until 18-24 or by attrition LOL)There are many adults who think Reality TV is 100% real. Now I am not blaming Media as a cause I will say though it reinforces the ideas but often without the complete reality of the situation.

Actually, I admit couldn't finish listening. And I know often when something traumatic like this occurs we feel the need for blame. But do you honestly think media has no impact on young minds? Why do gangs listen hip-hop, rap or angry metal instead of pop?Why are there copy-cat killings? Why is it more acceptable to watch a murder instead of naked body? Have you ever wondered why modernized culture is drawn to violent media and what its purpose might be?

reply to post by Majestic Lumen


Reminds me of how James Holmes was compliant, and how he turned himself in after he was able to commit such an incredible atrocity.

This is sadly becoming a trend in our society.

Originally posted by abeverage
Do you have children? I applaud you at being good at knowing the difference between reality and fiction. Most children do not until around 10-14 some (the ones who try JackAss tricks not until 18-24 or by attrition LOL)There are many adults who think Reality TV is 100% real. Now I am not blaming Media as a cause I will say though it reinforces the ideas but often without the complete reality of the situation.

Actually, I admit couldn't finish listening. And I know often when something traumatic like this occurs we feel the need for blame. But do you honestly think media has no impact on young minds? Why do gangs listen hip-hop, rap or angry metal instead of pop?Why are there copy-cat killings? Why is it more acceptable to watch a murder instead of naked body? Have you ever wondered why modernized culture is drawn to violent media and what its purpose might be?

Why do gangs listen to hip-hop? Why do millions of people listen to hip-hop? (Seriously...why? )

Seriously though, what percentage of people who listen to rap/hip-hop/metal are murders or do some form of evil behavior? 1%? Less? I don't know the statistics but in my opinion, and this is only my opinion, you can only relate that type of music to bad behavior if over 50% of the people who listen to it have the bad behavior. That makes sense to me.

Of course media has an impact, good and bad. I just do not feel that media has to do with issues like this. Media is present in every child's life. Why do only a handful commit terrible crimes? The correlation doesn't make sense to me.

And it is by no means a modern idea for humans to be drawn to violence. Think about the gladiators.

Originally posted by tport17

Originally posted by abeverage
Do you have children? I applaud you at being good at knowing the difference between reality and fiction. Most children do not until around 10-14 some (the ones who try JackAss tricks not until 18-24 or by attrition LOL)There are many adults who think Reality TV is 100% real. Now I am not blaming Media as a cause I will say though it reinforces the ideas but often without the complete reality of the situation.

Actually, I admit couldn't finish listening. And I know often when something traumatic like this occurs we feel the need for blame. But do you honestly think media has no impact on young minds? Why do gangs listen hip-hop, rap or angry metal instead of pop?Why are there copy-cat killings? Why is it more acceptable to watch a murder instead of naked body? Have you ever wondered why modernized culture is drawn to violent media and what its purpose might be?

Why do gangs listen to hip-hop? Why do millions of people listen to hip-hop? (Seriously...why?

)

Seriously though, what percentage of people who listen to rap/hip-hop/metal are murders or do some form of evil behavior? 1%? Less? I don't know the statistics but in my opinion, and this is only my opinion, you can only relate that type of music to bad behavior if over 50% of the people who listen to it have the bad behavior. That makes sense to me.

Of course media has an impact, good and bad. I just do not feel that media has to do with issues like this. Media is present in every child's life. Why do only a handful commit terrible crimes? The correlation doesn't make sense to me.

And it is by no means a modern idea for humans to be drawn to violence. Think about the gladiators.

OP Sorry we are drifted off-topic a bit.

You did not answer about having children (if you don't want to I understand). I asked because if you truly look through the eyes of a child they are often shocked, dismayed at harmful acts, they do not want to see violence and death when they grasp the consequence. If they even empathize with animals and understand pain and that violence is pain, both physical and mental.

Give this a thought since you brought up Gladiators. Perhaps the media is training for young minds to be shaped not into outright killers but into dulled down, desensitized tools with , to be used just as Gladiators did so long ago. Entertainments, security and conquest, tools for the PTB to weld and sometimes a few of the more easily conditioned snap and don't even realize what they have done...

reply to post by SpearMint


Just yesterday a guy was telling me about his stay at a hunting camp that dated back to the early 1800's. He goes there every year and there was a string, with a hoop hanging down outside one of the cabins. On the wall was a nail bent over in an L-shape. He asked his elderly father what it was for, and he quickly learned a new game, LOL!

Swing the hoop and try to catch it on the nail. They didn't always have TV or Computers, but they always found a way to entertain themselves. I imagine a parent and child, isolated in a hunting camp, could probably become very close playing a simple game that only requires a nail, a metal ring, and a string. I imagine a family that has that overall bonding experience in their life probably won't ever end up shooting each other for any reason, even if they do own a bunch of guns.

While the story is sad, there is just no way the mother and daughter are blameless. Things like this that happen, have a history years in the making. There may never be a clear cause and effect, or a clear final straw, but there is surely a lifetime of blame on all parties involved.

reply to post by abeverage


I'm sorry, no I do not have kids yet and it isn't looking like I will be anytime soon unfortunately. I do have an 11 year old niece I am very close to that I have had a large hand in raising, especially these last 4-5 years. I also have worked closely with children of all ages in classrooms, day-cares, and after-school programs since I was about 17 years old. I have a degree to work with children, so yes I see your point. I've also experienced the opposite, though.

You have an interesting theory on the motivations of the government and desensitization. A real life Hunger Games. It was also a theory for James Holmes.

Originally posted by memarf1
reply to post by SpearMint

 

While the story is sad, there is just no way the mother and daughter are blameless. Things like this that happen, have a history years in the making. There may never be a clear cause and effect, or a clear final straw, but there is surely a lifetime of blame on all parties involved.

I agree with this, though I wouldn't go as far as blaming the mother and sister unless more details were given.

I do agree that this was something that was a long time coming. I don't believe this boy just up and decided to kill his family. He even says in the audio he had been thinking about it. I'm sure there have been a series of events in his life that have lead him to this. It may not be caused by the family members.

Originally posted by tport17
reply to post by abeverage

 

I'm sorry, no I do not have kids yet and it isn't looking like I will be anytime soon unfortunately. I do have an 11 year old niece I am very close to that I have had a large hand in raising, especially these last 4-5 years. I also have worked closely with children of all ages in classrooms, day-cares, and after-school programs since I was about 17 years old. I have a degree to work with children, so yes I see your point. I've also experienced the opposite, though.

You have an interesting theory on the motivations of the government and desensitization. A real life Hunger Games. It was also a theory for James Holmes.

edit on 11-10-2012 by tport17 because: (no reason given)

Oddly I was actually disappointed (unlike most people...) with that movie (did not read the book) not because it was a bad movie (it was ok) but because it glamorized killing of children by children in games for the elite. Not many people wanted to discuss that or even recognize it but that it what it is plain and simple, have we become to desensitized perhaps? Yes, yes here I go again it was a movie and book no different than music or video IT'S FICTION! But like I said earlier, why?

I am hoping this recent shooting is not becoming a trend. Or that we will ever see a society that finds the slaughter of children (there were very young kids in the book as well as the movie not just teens) acceptable, common or even exciting as a sports event...

Originally posted by abeverage
Oddly I was actually disappointed with that movie not because it was a bad movie (it was ok) but because it glamorized killing of children by children in games for the elite. Not many people wanted to discuss that or even recognize it but that it what it is plain and simple, have we become to desensitized perhaps? Yes, yes here I go again it was a movie and book no different than music or video IT'S FICTION! But like I said earlier, why?

I am hoping this recent shooting is not becoming a trend. Or that we will ever see a society that finds the slaughter of children (there were very young kids in the book as well as the movie not just teens) acceptable, common or even exciting as a sports event...

I had read the book series before the movie. The series was not glamorizing child violence by any means. It was about how terrible it was. It showed how evil the government and the rich had become with an extreme example- child death. How one event can change the way a country runs, the citizens can let government get out of control, etc etc. Only the government and the rich found enjoyment from the hunger games.

Okay, we are getting way way way WAY off topic now lol. If you want to talk further please feel free to u2u me!
So sorry op!

reply to post by SpearMint


Psychopathy? Let's all play armchair psychiatrist shall we?

He's most likely in shock. I've seen my Dad accidentally cut off a part of his finger while cutting some wood. He was completely calm the whole time to the hospital.

Now I know these two situations are completely different, but this is what can happen to a person in a traumatic instance, it can induces shock.

Originally posted by Katharos62191
reply to post by Majestic Lumen

 

That was the oddest 24 minute long police recording I've heard.. I've never heard someone so calm after a situation like that..
He stated he was on no medications except things among sudafed, and zyrtec type allergy meds.
He had been wanting to kill someone for a while.. because people were rude to eachother, he felt suffocated, and his mom and sister basically got the short end of the stick there.
He shot his sister, and when she started freaking out because it hadn't killed her yet he shot her in the head..

This is all so sad, such a horrible situation.
He sounded so detached, like he had no remorse. He stated he would be messed up later..but the lack of emotion in his voice concerns me, and how calm he was talking to the police lady..
Geez..

Shock can do that to a person.

reply to post by abeverage

Video Games, Media, Violent Television

If only he had stuck to romance and comedies instead of action and horror genre eh? ...

How many more zombie flicks do I have to watch until I start craving brains?

Originally posted by CesarO
I am 100% sure there was a reason, whether that reason might seem proper to healthy individuals might be another story.

I am almost 100% sure that he was on some type of anti-depressant