Did Muhammad ascend to heaven and descend, Messiah Jesus refutes this.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Any religion that will play one brother against another is a false teaching.

If you are a part of a religion that says your group is the only group allowed in heaven, it's a false teaching for God wishes none of his children to perish or be left behind , and yes, we are all his children.

Not matter race or religion if you are not going in the good order of nature there is a problem to work out.

Other than that, treat your brother and sister as you like to be treated.

Take care of your family and neighbors and let no man be without if you can help it.

There is a battle going on within and abroad. We have got to help one another and not war with one another.

It's either time for mankind to shape up, or he willbe shipped out.

Originally posted by adjensen
Then why was Jesus a practicing Jew? Sure, he noted the inconsistencies of some of the practices of the Pharisees, but if you don't think Jesus was religious, you're misreading the Bible.

Have you forgotten who HATED Jesus more than anyone else?

The religious people.

Jesus referred to them as "The Synagogue of Satan" for a good reason...

Originally posted by shuar911
Not even a simple - bold english statement was made by jesus claiming to be god , example

" I am God, worship me "

By the way

BASTARD: This word occurs in the Bible THREE times:

a) "The BASTARD shall not enter the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation
DEUTERONOMY 23:2

b) "And a BASTARD shall dwell in Ashdod
ZECHARIAH 9:6

(c) "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then ye are BASTARDS and not sons. " HERREWS 12:8

WTF? These are the word of god?

edit on 18-9-2012 by shuar911 because: (no reason given)

The word bastard is an english translation for illigitimate child. The word bastard is also an allusion to one being born of "fornication" which in biblical terms means a heathen, or one not "born of God" or "born again". Such as when the pharisees wanted to kill Jesus:

John 8:31-46

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Abraham’s Seed and Satan’s
37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

The underlined portion the pharisees are telling Jesus they are not "born of fornication" or the english word bastards meaning heathen, or lawless ones. Ones who do not know their Father.

Jesus didn't claim to be "God" as the title, he claimed to be Hayah which is God's name in hebrew meaning "I AM", he went above claiming just a title which the word "god" could represent a stone or wooden idol because those are the gods of the heathen and is an indistinct title.

Jesus claims to be Hayah (God's name) here:

John 8:56-59

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Then the jews reacted by attempting to stone him to death because they knew who Hayah is and that Jesus was saying He is Hayah.

He didn't claim the title he claimed the Name Above ALL Names.

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by adjensen
Then why was Jesus a practicing Jew? Sure, he noted the inconsistencies of some of the practices of the Pharisees, but if you don't think Jesus was religious, you're misreading the Bible.

Have you forgotten who HATED Jesus more than anyone else?

The religious people.

Jesus referred to them as "The Synagogue of Satan" for a good reason...

No, it wasn't the "religious people", it was the "religious leaders", big difference (and there were some leaders, Nicodemus, for one, who didn't hate him.)

No religion? Why was he circumcised, then? Why present him in the Temple? Why teach from the Hebrew Scriptures? Why teach in Synagogues? Why pay the Temple tax? Why present sacrifices in the Temple?

Like I said, if you don't think that Christ followed Judaism, you're throwing out a pretty big part of who he is.

reply to post by adjensen

Seems like you are missing my point entirely.

You will NEVER understand what I am speaking about as long as you continue to believe that religion is truth.

I was not referring to Jesus or His practices, nor was I referring to pure religion.

I was speaking of FALSE Religion which is the greatest enemy of God, because it is Satan's greatest deception.

FALSE Religion LIES, HATES, & KILLS...

THIS is how we KNOW that God is not the author of FALSE Religion.

We know them by their FRUIT...

The fruit of FALSE Religion is deception.

The agenda behind FALSE Religion is to destroy spirituality:

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality." ~ Michael Ellner

reply to post by WarminIndy


When you believe in a concept that has no supporting evidence it is ignorant.

2nd line

Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

When you believe in a concept that has no supporting evidence it is ignorant.

When you believe that you can categorically state something has no supporting evidence, it is ignorant, arrogant and irrational.

Back over to you

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


So it took me a while but I read all 3 of your posts. Now I feel like an idiot because I wasted time thinking maybe just maybe you will make a point, or shine light on some kind of real evidence.

You quoting other people, reciting passages, posting videos of proven idiots (kent hovind) and quoting scientists does absolutely NOTHING to prove that a god exists.

I'm truly surprised you didn't post this video too along with all the other nonsense:

reply to post by adjensen


I think you are confused to what evidence is.

You should visit a courtroom and see what constitutes as acceptable evidence and what is considered hear say. EVERYTHING you theists have put forward as proof is hear say. And in the real world we don't value hear say, we need something more concrete.

Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by adjensen

 

I think you are confused to what evidence is.

You should visit a courtroom and see what constitutes as acceptable evidence and what is considered hear say. EVERYTHING you theists have put forward as proof is hear say. And in the real world we don't value hear say, we need something more concrete.

Well, that's just it, I haven't put forth any "proof", because I don't care what you believe, and I don't care what you think of my beliefs. I am simply pointing out your continuing irrationality of making absolute statements with incomplete observations.

Do you understand why you can't draw conclusions about evidence's non-existence, apart from your own observations, and even then, the only thing you can speak to is your observations, not the actual absence of evidence?

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by raiders247

 

What's amazing is that you fail to realize your own logical fallacies. Demanding proof of God, and then subsequently shouting at the top of your lungs that you are an atheist, doesn't make you intelligent. It makes you an idiot.

Multiple people here have tried to point out the flaws in your logic, but because you disagree with their beliefs you have rejected their logic outright.

The only logical conclusion for someone opposed to the idea of a creator to come to, is agnosticism. Atheism requires just as much of a stretch of faith as theism does, as neither can currently be "proven".

Wasn't aware one could shout on a message board, but hey that's to be expected by someone who has the ability to believe without proof. You guys never fail to amaze me!

My logic is rock solid: Make a claim, back it up with more than conjecture.

I'm not opposed to the idea of a creator anymore than I'm opposed to martians. I would gladly accept it given there was proof. Agnosticism is just a gateway to becoming an Atheist, I was there once. I refuse to believe in ANYTHING without proof first. And if you looked at your own life you probably don't believe things without evidence either except for when it comes to god, why is that?

The only claim I have made, and all of you continue to ignore this, is that there has yet to be any sufficient non-refutable evidence that a creator exists. If you can prove me wrong I'll eat my words and drown in guilt and repent. But somebody prove it first, please.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by raiders247

At least with Jesus you won't be dropping anvils on anyone's heads.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You are right! Instead we would advocate slavery, incest, genocide and narcissism.

An anvil seems harmless in comparison.

None of that has ever been done by the Church.

None of this have never been done by WHICH church? I can prove that plenty of churches have done these things. You provide the church and I'll provide the proof. I mean a real church too, not pretend one in your personal heart.

reply to post by adjensen


Well that's the difference between me and you, I actually do care what you believe, I care about all my fellow human beings regardless of how deluded they are. If you don't care about what I believe then there's no need to continue responding.

I can make an absolute conclusion based on the observations I have made throughout my life. That's not to say I can't be wrong, but at this point in my life God has yet to reveal himself to me or anyone I know. There is no such thing as 100% certainty, but there is a such thing as great probability and in light of an absence of evidence I believe it is a great probability that there is no God, just like i believe it is a great probability that the boogy man isn't hiding in my closet.

There is no such thing as a complete observation, at some point you have to stop playing semantics and realize that people draw conclusion based on available evidence.

Originally posted by MamaJ
Why do fear Jesus is not God, but our brother? He, like you have incarnated more than once. Im not trying to fool you in the least! We are ALL sons and daughters of God!

We are NOT all sons of God. The Bible clearly states:

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

You must first believe and receive Him to get the right to become His children.

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider

Originally posted by MamaJ
Why do fear Jesus is not God, but our brother? He, like you have incarnated more than once. Im not trying to fool you in the least! We are ALL sons and daughters of God!

We are NOT all sons of God. The Bible clearly states:

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

You must first believe and receive Him to get the right to become His children.

Alright.... the word of John vs the word of Jesus....

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Referencing Psalm 82...

We're all children of God my friend

reply to post by Akragon


If you have received Christ as your Saviour you are indeed His child, if not you certainly are not.

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
reply to post by Akragon

 

If you have received Christ as your Saviour you are indeed His child, if not you certainly are not.

Ya... your christian dogmatic views mean nothing to me...

Everyone comes from God, and everyone will return to him once we pass...

Though you are free to hold yourself higher then others... i will not...

Believe what you will though

Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by adjensen

 

I can make an absolute conclusion based on the observations I have made throughout my life. That's not to say I can't be wrong, but at this point in my life God has yet to reveal himself to me or anyone I know.

I gave you the chance to post proof of some things you accused the Church of. You did not post that "proof". I think you are afraid of seeing the truth. Afraid of being wrong. God will not reveal Himself to someone who does not really want Him in their life.

Originally posted by raiders247

There is no such thing as 100% certainty, but there is a such thing as great probability and in light of an absence of evidence I believe it is a great probability that there is no God, just like i believe it is a great probability that the boogy man isn't hiding in my closet.

I am 100% certain that God exists because He has revealed Himself to me.

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider

Originally posted by MamaJ
Why do fear Jesus is not God, but our brother? He, like you have incarnated more than once. Im not trying to fool you in the least! We are ALL sons and daughters of God!

We are NOT all sons of God. The Bible clearly states:

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

You must first believe and receive Him to get the right to become His children.

Your name speaks loud and clear and so does this doctrine.

If you think one religion stands out over another you are mistaken.

Religion is a divider and does not go in the order of nature where we are to be united.

Do you think a HOLY SPIRIT wants to divide or unite?

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider

Originally posted by MamaJ
Why do fear Jesus is not God, but our brother? He, like you have incarnated more than once. Im not trying to fool you in the least! We are ALL sons and daughters of God!

We are NOT all sons of God. The Bible clearly states:

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

You must first believe and receive Him to get the right to become His children.

Alright.... the word of John vs the word of Jesus....

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Referencing Psalm 82...

We're all children of God my friend

Thank you. I'm not a one to bring in verses as the well versed student/ seekers should know Jesus by now.

Sadly the doctrine of division is spoken with an authority that is deceived.

We are truly all of Gods children and the Roman Empire should not still have its hold on mans heart. The words of Jesus should.