Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

reply to post by OpinionatedB


So, now, you've changed your mind again and gay marriage is NOT ok? Make up your mind.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I was doing all right til legitimate children.Now I am wondering how far I can move.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

Homosexuals are not allowed marriage because it is against the law.

Not anything to do with procreating, it is an illegal act, God made it so. God says men and woman are the natural state of man, and anything which is harmful to man or against the natural state of man is illegal.

That doesn't answer my question. We are talking about the constraint of marriage as you have explained them to me, and I was asking a semi-hypothetical question upon that basis. Stating the obvious based on those constraints and those applied by the Abrahamic religions to homosexuality, does not address my question.

Originally posted by XaniMatriX

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by RealSpoke

 

Thats ok... I am currently thinking of moving into the middle of no where very very very far the any man or civilization and just praying this all ends soon.

Neno is right, its time to just back way up.... screw all of society. And all this insanity.

edit on 27-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

If you think that way, it doesnt matter where you go, if you see garbage and death and all kind of evil around you, doesnt matter where you are, in the middle of a desert, or a jungle you will see garbage and death and all kind of evil.

Not true. I speak from experience.

Garbage and evil can be left behind. Death however, will eventually find us wherever we go. We just don't have to look at it day in and day out until it comes for us.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


And? There are a ton of people with kids born outside of marriage.

reply to post by Biliverdin


The constraints in marriage to me are the law. I did not explain anything to you, all i did was answer one or two small questions which you directly asked.

That is not explaining the constraints of marriage to you.

reply to post by nenothtu


OOOH, so you live in a utopia. Please tell me where this is. Humans have been searching for it since they could imagine it.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


You don't need marriage to procreate!

See, this is one of the big issues I have with some religions.

Marriage is for religious people who only intend procreate!

BALONEY! Although i want to say more vulgar words than that.

I can't get married because I'm not religious so I can't fall in love and be with a woman I love because I'm not religious nor do I want children.

I'm sorry, but you see, that's extremely divisive in nature, not to mention a special privilege.

This is why organized religion needs to go the way of the dodo.

And that's the biggest problems with the religious, is that they can only see things, define things, and justify things in a religious term of some sort, and nobody else may apply.

That's why I prefer a secular government. Because it's a society that does recognize me in some minimal way.

reply to post by nenothtu


Really, evil left behind. Can you say Colorado? That's just 1. Want more examples?

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Yeah, nature doesn't like women past the age of menopause, or men past the age of virility either. But, we've found a way to cheat nature, and live beyond that.

Why would nature not like them? Is their history and contribution to the gene pool suddenly non-existent?

And I believe that Jesus wouldn't have a problem with two people genuinely loving each other, regardless of their sexual orientation.

You'd have to take that up with Jesus - I don't speak for him. It seems that not all share my reluctance to do so, however.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

Homosexuals are not allowed marriage because it is against the law.

Not anything to do with procreating, it is an illegal act, God made it so. God says men and woman are the natural state of man, and anything which is harmful to man or against the natural state of man is illegal.

edit on 27-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

Wow, your true colors are really coming out. You started this thread feigning acceptance and that you were "just curious" etc., but you have certainly shed that skin and gotten right down to showing what you really feel, which was obviously seething underneath all of your posts to begin with.

If you have never met anyone that doesn't desire children, I can't see that your scope of experience or openness of mind can be very far reaching, which explains why you would like to just "escape" and move to the middle of nowhere so you can deny that the world and society you're living in is changing, and not have to face the consequences to yourself of not moving along with in any way.

And really, I know that IS hard, especially when you've had the same belief structure for your whole life. But if you do move to the middle of nowhere, do it because you want to live there, not because you're trying to escape a world that is changing and becoming more and more accepting of people. You'll miss out on that.

It looks like you haven't spent much time thinking for yourself. You should really take a look at your religion from all angles, research its past, its roots, its true history, to understand exactly what it is you think you believe, and why.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

The constraints in marriage to me are the law. I did not explain anything to you, all i did was answer one or two small questions which you directly asked.

That is not explaining the constraints of marriage to you.

It explained it to me though, very clearly. My questions were intentionally pointed to that goal.

So, again, how would a homosexual union of marriage, should US law decide to allow it, differ from a heterosexual union where the couple have made a conscious decision that they do not intend to procreate?

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Yeah, nature doesn't like women past the age of menopause, or men past the age of virility either. But, we've found a way to cheat nature, and live beyond that.

Why would nature not like them? Is their history and contribution to the gene pool suddenly non-existent?

Well, duh - they can't procreate any more. They're useless to nature now. It's all about procreating, right - that's the only reason we're all here. Once you've done your duty, you can go now.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

I was doing all right til legitimate children.Now I am wondering how far I can move.

edit on 27-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

Give me a break. Adopting a child into a loving home means that child is a bastard and should be shunned from society? Or having a child through a surrogate, or by using a sperm donor means that child is less valuable than another child? Now you are just making me mad.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Their children would not be legitimate though.

One comment made earlier was marriage to make their children legitimate. Well their children are unable to be legitimate. Legitimacy is conception and birth within the confines of a marriage between a man and his wife. That is what decides legitimacy.

For YOU maybe. But if a man and a woman decide to have a child, and they're not married OR religious, and love their child and are happy, I'd say that is pretty legitimate.

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
spotless has a point... we are just going to leave Muslims out of this one.

edit on 27-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

Isn't excluding Muslims sort of like excluding gays?

When is exclusion no longer exclusion?

I would think there would have to be some sort of logical reason to enforce any sort of an exclusion.

That's why I say let the gays have their secular marriages - they can't touch the spiritual ones. It's not people excluding them from those, it's nature itself. Let them rage against nature, and see how well that goes.

That's ridiculous, since when did organised religion have anything to do with what is natural? Calling it 'spiritual' does not make marriage any less of a construct of organised religion.

edit on 27-7-2012 by Biliverdin because: (no reason given)

Who said anything about "organized religion"? It wasn't me. You've perhaps confused me with someone else. In religious matters, I'm probably the most DISorganized person you will ever have the misfortune to meet.

Originally posted by quietlearner
I have a question
hopefully someone with knowledge can answer

why are married couples given tax breaks? when was this law made and with what purpose?

I dont really know but I would guess they were made to help in raising a child

if thats true then why would gay marriages be entitled to tax breaks

would it not be akin to rich people demanding financial aid?

Gay couples can raise children too. Lots of gay couples adopt, use surrogates, sperm donors, etc. Some even have children from a previous relationship with an opposite gender, when they were trying to be what everyone else wanted them to be.

Originally posted by nenothtu
Who said anything about "organized religion"? It wasn't me. You've perhaps confused me with someone else. In religious matters, I'm probably the most DISorganized person you will ever have the misfortune to meet.

Oh I think I'd give you a run for your money on that one...but, the laws of marriage, in your country and mine, are based on those instituted by organised religion, which is why I was much more happy with 'living over the brush'

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

Men are allowed more than one wife.... If I was young and married then was unable to give birth yes I would find another wife who could bear children for my husband...

what on earth is wrong with that?

You live in the US, there is quite a lot wrong with that, unless you intend to divorce him first.

I live in the US. There are several polygamous unions right around here where I live. No one bothers them, they bother no one, and don't insist on inflicting themselves on the legal process, or demand that anyone else recognize their "rights". We all get along just fine because of that.