Is Jesus the only way to God?

reply to post by wildtimes


Well I understand that transliteration (such as the original Greek language of the new testament to modern english) renders some difficulties. Martin Luther learned this as well when he attempted to transliterate Latin/Greek dcripture to German.

It is true that if you read the bible in English, you miss important things. However thats why scripture established certain people in the church who have been given the gift to preach and teach God's word. Paul's epistles deal with the formation of church and various gifts used in it.

This is the fact of church history. We have over 5000 manuscripts that date back close enough to the time of the events that they are considered legitimate. The system to ascertain historical valifity in written works must be applied to all written works of history whether they be christian or anything else. The 5000 manuscripts passed the necessary tests. You can't think that the world has been in a lassive milleniums old delusion on this?

Now, those 5000 manuscripts are all Very consistant. They are known as the textus receptus. They are the manuscripts that the first dentury church fathers used. The original language of all of them is Greek. So again, these are the facts of this case. Now, is something lost from Greek to englis. Yes. No doubt.

Are you a Mason?

reply to post by wildtimes


Oh and incidently, it is well excepted universally in scholarly and academic circles that the Jewish people well preserved their scripture which are the torah, law, and prophets/psalms. Their scripture is known as the Masocetic text and, having been joined with the 5000 Greek manuscripts known as the textus receptus, comprises today's KJB. The Dead Sea Scrolls found in 1948 actually confirmed that the Masoretic text had been remarkeably preserved even longer than we knew.

This means when a christian is reading a KJB, they Old Testament would have been the one Jesus read, and the knew Testament would be the one written by Apostles and used throughout the early church. These are FACTS, and drive towards authenticity, historicity, and legitimacy.

reply to post by wildtimes


I wrote a long reply to you that just vanished!!

Ugh!!!!!

I was saying.....

Im so jealous.... Glad I got that out so maybe Ican heal lol

Tongues speaking is really weird!!! Gives me the heebie jeebies!!!

Im not comfy in any church really, i like deciphering alone these days as I seem to learn more.

When i get the ipad back from my son I will write more.

reply to post by wildtimes


I do love reading your posts. They are usually quite insightful, especially on these matters.

Yes, there are tons of metaphors, but I think there are far more secrets in it than we give credit for.

reply to post by MamaJ

I wrote a long reply to you that just vanished!!

Ugh!!!!!

I used to have that problem using Internet Explorer, but now I use Google Chrome and it somehow caches all the posts and saves them so they do't get lost.
Now some people may not like that, but if you are posting your thoughts, it doesn't matter if they are saving them.

reply to post by Elsha

It is true that if you read the bible in English, you miss important things. However thats why scripture established certain people in the church who have been given the gift to preach and teach God's word. Paul's epistles deal with the formation of church and various gifts used in it.

There are other things too, you know, such as Bible commentaries, some of which are very good at explaining the intricacies of the translation from the Greek. One series I have found very useful in that regards is the Hermeneia: A Critical & Historical Commentary on the Bible series, which I am currently in the process of accumulating (I have five volumes in the mail, and two at home already). There are others such as the Word Biblical Commentary series which I have a few of, where the one on Revelation is quite useful.
But, as you say, not everyone is going to be an expert, so it helps I think to make use of the available (with cash to invest in books) scholarship readily available by those who are.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Ha!! I just cant type on this lil iphone. It drives me CRAZY!!!! Lol

Oh well...

My kids are about to leave to for their dads for the weekend so wont be long and I will be able to use the ipad!! Yay!!! Will miss the kids of course! Lol

On topic:

I love to hear ideas others have in regards to the Bible and other ancient texts.

Its all about perception imo.

Oh... Took my son to the Parthenon today. I live in Tennessee ... Anyone ever heard of the Parthenon

reply to post by MamaJ

Ha!! I just cant type on this lil iphone. It drives me CRAZY!!!! Lol

Not anything I would want to attempt myself.
So my advice would not apply in that case, but for anyone using a PC, it would, and it has saved my posts a number of times from accidentally pushing something I shouldn't have.

reply to post by MamaJ


every text or scripture as some call them...contain truth, and then man had to come along and add his two cents to make each one sound good, as if the truth was not good enough, they had to add things to it...and on top of that the clergy of each respective faith had to add to it, and then on top of that the governments who wanted power and used each religion to wield that power, added to it again...

so the core information, the things that match the truth, and the spirit of truth are inspired by the divine...by the one creator of the universe who gives life to all things...other than that its a lot of mess to try and work through...

since high clergy and governments knew that most people do not want to take the time to find out the truth...they offered a nice neat little package of mumbo jumbo for people to digest, regurgitate and then hurl at people...sickness...its exactly the picture i get...

Jesus and others definitely came to set things right, but for some reason, those who have always controlled the power here on earth, over us, find a way to hide the truth, and deliver a lie in its place...each time messengers came to man, the tried to tell us what the truth was, how easy and simple it was to understand, but man always has to mess it up...every time...whether by choice of their own based on greed, or the drive of some other force behind them that promises them something for it...the results are always the same...faith is swallowed in empty ritual, rivalry, discord, killing, disparity, slavery, blindness, and ignorance...

so i have to agree... the only way to find all the truth is to take all the information in, not just one little narrow group of texts, but all of them and then judge the truth as it presents itself...

that is a true scientific method...nobody has been struck by lightning for doing that yet, and it is the same method we use to find truth about the physical world, it is how we have achieved technology, like computers and the jet engine... but it also works with spiritual things, or things we do not have enough information about yet...

to say otherwise is either folly of ignorance, or someone is trying to hide something, which is why i say those hiding something are directly linked to the occult, even those that rewrote the bible to suit their purposes...because the occult means hidden...apocalypse means unveiling...

its our choice to remain in darkness or remove the blinders...

i would also like to say that while scripture is an important look at the spirit of the ideas being presented...it does not adequately teach them as they would have been taught in person...

the reason Jesus and his disciples did not carry around books is because it was not practical for them...and Jesus taught people exactly what to do in person, and so did the early followers of Jesus, but eventually it grew from an oral tradition to writing it down...i think if the oral tradition were preserved as accurately as the fake written one was, we would find they were much different...but our culture has been driven by law, which was written down, and there is little respect for oral traditions, or even community on that level...instead we are bound by legalese...

reply to post by autowrench


Take a look for your self:

Manuscript evidence

reply to post by studythem1


There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts for the New Testament alone. If you want to disregard the New Testament, then you must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better-preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writings.

reply to post by Elsha

We have over 5000 manuscripts that date back close enough to the time of the events that they are considered legitimate. The system to ascertain historical valifity in written works must be applied to all written works of history whether they be christian or anything else. The 5000 manuscripts passed the necessary tests. You can't think that the world has been in a lassive milleniums old delusion on this?

Yes, I do, actually, think just that.

Now, those 5000 manuscripts are all Very consistant. They are known as the textus receptus. They are the manuscripts that the first dentury church fathers used. The original language of all of them is Greek. So again, these are the facts of this case. Now, is something lost from Greek to englis. Yes. No doubt.

Are you a Mason?

No, dear heart, I'm a woman. You're on the right track, though. I have no animosity toward the Masons, nor toward Madame Blavatsky. It's all connected, and it all needs to be explored, dissected, and set forward.

reply to post by jmdewey60


i totally agree with you. There are plenty of commentaries, greek lexicon, and Greek theological study aids in general that someone could get it down with having to "speak greek".

By the way, I still believe that God can use the english language in correlation with the bible to guide someone to do His will for their lives even without them knowing the Greek.

reply to post by Elsha

. . . someone could get it down with having to "speak greek".

I was not trying to imply that it would be simple, but on the contrary, that it may not be so easy to imagine one single person could be relied on to know everything regarding the complete text of the Bible.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by studythem1

 

There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts for the New Testament alone. If you want to disregard the New Testament, then you must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better-preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writings.

and they are all fairly contemporary to each other...more of them at one time does not make them more credible...and just because they can be discredited does not make other works less credible...again flawed logic...

that is like me saying because a snake oil salesman had thousands of pamphlets distributed all over the country, that he is credible...but what about the product? and then saying that because his pamphlet is accurately copied that it proved the validity of a sears catalog from the same time period...(???)

the raw ingredients are not to blame for the snake oil salesman mixing them and misrepresenting their properties to the people he duped...and it does not discredit anyone else...

one documents ability to have multiple copies that are identical, does not make it true, nor does every other manuscript from the time period hang on the truth of one particular book or body of books...each stands on its own...

Plato, Homer, and Aristotle were not linked to Jesus...they did not even live at the same time...you guys keep arguing flawed logic...

also, has anyone ever thought that maybe the official version of the new testament is propaganda? i think it has all the marks of it...the mass production, the bombardment of thousands of texts...but that still does not prove that it is truth...it just proves that it was shoved down more peoples throats...(gag)

the reason why we do not have all the copies of the other works is because several libraries were burned containing the works of other people like Plato, Aristotle and Homer...

book burning is an earmark of forcing a particular view point on others...

mass copying is an earmark of propaganda...

just those two things alone tell me that the evidence has been rigged... and why would evidence need to be rigged if it is the truth?

it does not make sense if it is the truth...nope...

what makes sense is that a Dictator used their version of the New Testament to shove down peoples throats, either convert or die...and what about the works of the philosophers? "no time for that you puny little slaves...convert or die!!!" (boot to gluteus maximus)

the spirit if that man, Constantine, is evident in the attitudes of Christians today...

everyone wants to ignore that fact...

"well then why is Christianity so successful?" because it has helped to keep people from knowing the truth about what has been hidden from all of us for centuries...they allow it to be successful because they were the ones who sponsored it to begin with!

again Christianity as we know it does not equal Christ or his real teachings...he is not here right now, and the complete teachings are all but lost...and i dont even think the new age stuff that is peddled as the real teachings even comes close...

Did Chrisitans Destroy Classical Culture and Create the DARK AGES?

Jesus and others definitely came to set things right, but for some reason, those who have always controlled the power here on earth, over us, find a way to hide the truth, and deliver a lie in its place...each time messengers came to man, the tried to tell us what the truth was, how easy and simple it was to understand, but man always has to mess it up...every time...whether by choice of their own based on greed, or the drive of some other force behind them that promises them something for it...the results are always the same...faith is swallowed in empty ritual, rivalry, discord, killing, disparity, slavery, blindness, and ignorance...

reply to post by studythem1


In this day and age, its all about trust. There is none. Knowing our leaders are quacked out of their minds, makes one wonder just what kind of control did they intend? If any?

Is the Bible so well preserved and without error? Its Gods word after all? Well, thats hard to digest and fully believe when we know the plans of our elite from the times before jesus, during jesus, and after!

The ONLY way it could be as divine as we want it to be is IF Jesus reincarnated to help translate and preserve it as he is the ONLY one I trust.

that is a true scientific method

Whereas we who have a scientific mind will have to dissect the Word so we can have facts and or experiences to back it up. This is how we were made, however many are not made this way so their journey to God is different than ours.

.because the occult means hidden...apocalypse means unveiling

This is where it gets hairy for me and my conspiracy mind... Lol...

When ya wake up to the reality of good and evil here on this planet it makes you wonder whats what! Is the Bible and other texts filled with love and light or darkness and deceit? Is god both because thats what the Bible reads. He is both good and bad.

Well, i consider Jesus all good. Why wouldnt our father be just as good? He is.....

So.... Back to the elite. Is the bohemian grove a way to show love? Occult? Worshiping an owl and chanting while engaging in bromance? Ooook.

If satan rules this planet.....?? Is the bible good? Is it true?

The scientific mind wants these answers....

However we have to TRUST in Jesus. He brought a message of love and this is what we hold onto. Everything else is not noteworthy.

IF we are forced to pick a side, I would like to think that when this happens, we will know which to choose because we know Jesus/ Love becuase he is the truth we trust and believe in!

the reason Jesus and his disciples did not carry around books is because it was not practical for them...and Jesus taught people exactly what to do in person, and so did the early followers of Jesus, but eventually it grew from an oral tradition to writing it down...i think if the oral tradition were preserved as accurately as the fake written one was, we would find they were much different...but our culture has been driven by law, which was written down, and there is little respect for oral traditions, or even community on that level...instead we are bound by legalese...

Jesus studied the OT, however he did not carry it around asking people to be saved.

He indeed walked the earth teaching people love, trust, and faith. He showed people with his actions that it does not matter what religion you are into, doesnt matter how many times you have cheated on your husband, it doesnt matter if you are a liar.... Jesus wants us all to know him and in doing so we know our father. This tells me he was not judgemental at all! He was very loving. How do you get someone to change? Do you kill them, beat on them, or show them love and how to " be"? He says with his actions " i love you anyway".

When a person has a relationship with Jesus, they have more love and they show more love. They want to try harder to walk with him by showing love to others as this was his main message. Love!!

A persons heart does not lie. With their actions and words you can tell who knows Jesus, and who doesnt.

We know what we know in regards to where we live and who runs the show.... Their actions and words do not convey Jesus message. We have to remain vigilent and aware. Trust in love and stand up for love every chance we get by offering love. Make sense? Lol hope so...

This world is not for us.... Not yet. Sooner than later it will not be ran by such evil and the light will prevail above everything dark.

Originally posted by MamaJThe ONLY way it could be as divine as we want it to be is IF Jesus reincarnated to help translate and preserve it as he is the ONLY one I trust.

Jesus was not sent to preserve a book, he was sent to show us the way to live, by action, by building trust, by friendship, and by showing the true meaning of love...this was all demonstrated by him and the people who followed him...if there is any purpose for the gospel, that is it...beyond that the New testament is a bunch of filler meant to push a philosophy that has little to do with the original message...

Whereas we who have a scientific mind will have to dissect the Word so we can have facts and or experiences to back it up. This is how we were made, however many are not made this way so their journey to God is different than ours.

true enough, however their journey to god should not be forced on everyone else...that is my contention, it goes against the natural law of the creator...


"...the occult means hidden...apocalypse means unveiling..."

This is where it gets hairy for me and my conspiracy mind... Lol...

When ya wake up to the reality of good and evil here on this planet it makes you wonder whats what! Is the Bible and other texts filled with love and light or darkness and deceit? Is god both because thats what the Bible reads. He is both good and bad.

i think that shows the confusion inherent in the text known as the bible...and that it proves that whoever claimed to be the creator was indeed not, but several imposters who had fickle emotions...no better than any man or woman...

Well, i consider Jesus all good. Why wouldnt our father be just as good? He is.....

the creator is nothing but good...and there is no human imperfection there at all...Jesus was the closest thing to that in human form in his time...there have been others, but many would not agree, or would seek to discredit them as well...

So.... Back to the elite. Is the bohemian grove a way to show love? Occult? Worshiping an owl and chanting while engaging in bromance? Ooook.

If satan rules this planet.....?? Is the bible good? Is it true?

The scientific mind wants these answers....

the bohemian grove, the illuminati, satanism, and a lot of other societies are all extensions of this occult, they are not a way to show love, but a counterfeit of it, because it is conditional, based on what money can be gained, what favors can be gained or what power can be gained...it is all selfish...and the reason there is homosexuality is because it is used as a way to prove initiates are willing to do anything...if they are willing to whore themselves out then they are included...if not they are ridiculed and even murdered sometimes...there is no love there...i guarantee it...some of their "power" is vested in fear, and we allow them to exploit that...Satan, as i have said before is a general term for "the enemy, the adversary" it is not one being...it is many that span many generations...it is a world system used to control the resources and power...not all of the bible is true because satan is the god of this world...the system has altered it to support their power...

However we have to TRUST in Jesus. He brought a message of love and this is what we hold onto. Everything else is not noteworthy.

true, we do, but we do not have to trust those that misrepresent him or his name, or those that attribute qualities and actions to him that were inconsistent with his nature...

IF we are forced to pick a side, I would like to think that when this happens, we will know which to choose because we know Jesus/ Love becuase he is the truth we trust and believe in! ...He indeed walked the earth teaching people love, trust, and faith. He showed people with his actions that it does not matter what religion you are into, doesnt matter how many times you have cheated on your husband, it doesnt matter if you are a liar.... Jesus wants us all to know him and in doing so we know our father. This tells me he was not judgemental at all! He was very loving. How do you get someone to change? Do you kill them, beat on them, or show them love and how to " be"? He says with his actions " i love you anyway". When a person has a relationship with Jesus, they have more love and they show more love. They want to try harder to walk with him by showing love to others as this was his main message. Love!! A persons heart does not lie. With their actions and words you can tell who knows Jesus, and who doesnt. We know what we know in regards to where we live and who runs the show.... Their actions and words do not convey Jesus message. We have to remain vigilent and aware. Trust in love and stand up for love every chance we get by offering love. Make sense? Lol hope so...

yes, it does! i agree...

more in the next post (cant quote everything...)

reply to post by MamaJ

This world is not for us.... Not yet. Sooner than later it will not be ran by such evil and the light will prevail above everything dark.

i believe that in the end, all the efforts to control the world and those that are struggling so much to force this world to do their bidding, will wear out...they will exhaust themselves...they will destroy themselves and many others...but they will be wasting their time, but they will also try and take everyone down with them...only those that can adapt, and return to a more natural state of existence will survive...everyone else will be lost because they are so dependent on the systems in place...

this is why so many still cling to the religions or ideas they have for many years, even when the truth is put in front of them...because they cannot adapt...they have lost that ability, or skill, that we humans needed to survive until civilization (the way it is now) was forced on us...

civilization itself is not bad, technology is not bad, nothing in itself is evil, not symbols, not love, not sex, not books, not people...it is when the wrong spirit or system is applied that something becomes twisted or perverted...

the golden rule is the one rule that Jesus preached...that is all he required... "love others as i have loved you" that to him was the whole of the law and the prophets...that does not mean the law and the prophets are %100 perfect, but that benevolence is what they attempted to instil in people and failed at doing...that is where the church made an error because it attempted to go backwards to harsh law, and the harsh condemnation of the prophets...Jesus was about moving forward, not going backwards...

yes eventually good will prevail, but we have to do our part to spread the real gospel...that is: teach others how to love, build trust, teach real faith, be real friends to others, and that doesn't happen unless we take the time to get to know those around us, and stop living in cubicles oblivious of our neighbors, caught in the matrix...

the gospel is about love in action, not memorization, not quotation or what doctrine is correct...all that is rubbish...that is the old way the way of the law and the prophets...

reply to post by MamaJ

Tongues speaking is really weird!!! Gives me the heebie jeebies!!!

It's weird, all right. Especially because it's a classic misrepresentation of what was meant by the original phrase "speaking in tongues". It did not mean blabbing in gibberish that NO ONE can understand!!

It meant that the speaker's words, addressed to an audience of a wide variety of languages, are understood by EVERYONE in "their own language." That the speaker's message was perfectly clear, regardless of what language (tongue) the listener speaks.

This, to me, is a classic example of how the sects that "fall out and roll around on the floor and utter nonsensical syllables" -- like they are having a seizure - have corrupted and totally misinterpreted (on purpose!!) the phrase. Goes right back to the "translation" idea. The fact that they continue to do so gives me the heebs BIG TIME!

Sorry you lost your long post... Boo! I hate it when that happens!!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Tongues speaking is really weird!!! Gives me the heebie jeebies!!!

It's weird, all right. Especially because it's a classic misrepresentation of what was meant by the original phrase "speaking in tongues". It did not mean blabbing in gibberish that NO ONE can understand!!

It meant that the speaker's words, addressed to an audience of a wide variety of languages, are understood by EVERYONE in "their own language." That the speaker's message was perfectly clear, regardless of what language (tongue) the listener speaks.

This, to me, is a classic example of how the sects that "fall out and roll around on the floor and utter nonsensical syllables" -- like they are having a seizure - have corrupted and totally misinterpreted (on purpose!!) the phrase. Goes right back to the "translation" idea. The fact that they continue to do so gives me the heebs BIG TIME!

i second that...dont know how it was really done originally, but that is exactly what speaking in tongues means...i have even heard of instances where this was legit...

but it seems like a fad or a fashion statement for some sects to blabber nonsense and roll around imitating a seizure...