Is Jesus the only way to God?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by studythem1

 

All I can say, Studythem1, is that it's clear to me that you're more willing to believe in ET's than fallen angels and some unknown Creator versus the God or Jesus of the Bible, even though you claim you've been studying the Bible for the last 12 years? What can I say? The message wasn't meant for everyone, just like the Bible says. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Now I get why it's so confusing and secretive to you.

edit on 25-7-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

Gee, that was harsh there, Deetermined. How many years have studied and researched the Bible(s), if I may ask? Here is what you get after all of the research, you know that the Bible is not what the Christians think. Read some of my own threads and that is some of it. But there is more. And sorry, but the "fallen angels" are ETs, the Annunaki.
The Annunaki is even in the Bible Codes, if you believe in that.
Annunaki - Found In Genesis 25:32
Some were banned from Nibiru, 600 in all, rebels all, and stayed here. there were called "The IGGY." All Roads Lead to Ancient Sumer. Many of your Bible stories came from them.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by wildtimes

 

That song is almost exactly what I've been feeling lately.

Most of all, the not wanting to be alone part. I don't want to be left alone. Friends are all I have in this life. And that's all I want. Friends and fun. Happiness.

To be sure, I don't rely on religion to have these things. Perhaps providence plays a part, but I have done my own part as well.

Friend, if you cannot trust, of believe in another thing I say, believe this always: You were never alone, and never will be alone. The Big Secret is, we are all ONE.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by studythem1

 

Dude, welcome. It's a bit rough in here...
but I'm on your side.

Those of us who fight the ESTABLISHMENT must stick together against those who would enslave us, in any way whatsoever. We will seek the truth, and spread that truth to the masses. Then we will go Home, and have a party to celebrate our work here. First round is on me.


Back on topic though, "Jesus," as many of us know, is a made up name for a made up persona. The real Christ was way different from what they think, and I believe he even instructed the ignorant humans how to find his Father, and even how to open a dialogue. He never once claimed to be God. The way to the Abode of the Gods is easy to find, it is in your heart, and in your mind.

reply to post by studythem1

makes one wonder why they would choose the worst possible copies of documents to support their case file of evidence...

Because those are all they have. (The claims of mounds of evidence that Jesus lived as they say is an out and out lie)
And some have said that Osiris and Mithras, and several other figures that were copied for the Jesus character didn't have the message of Christ. Well, that is because the "message of Christ" was authored by Roman scholars for an agenda to quell dissent among Christian sects of the time. Of course it is different.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by wildtimes

 

What am I, chopped liver?

Seriously, more or less everything you, Wild, say in particular, and a few others on this thread, I completely agree with.

I just have three problems with Christianity:

1. They think their way is the only way, and only the Constitution prevents them from physically forcing us to convert.

2. Their God is a bloodthirsty ***hole, but they're still willing to sell their souls and integrity for the sake of eternal life and a religion that's purely impractical and useless in regards to what we need in this age.

3. They are unwilling to fight for the world. They will just lay down and watch it burn.

I have a few problems with Christianity too:

1. They preach politics but enjoy tax free status.

2. They damn their Mother Earth, and call Her vile names, and never once thank Her for everything they have. No, they thank "Jesus" who has provided not one thing.

4. They threaten other with their Mythical Being and their version of the Afterlife.

5. They are mean, and hateful when questioned, as if it is a sin to ask anything about what they think, do, say, or believe.

6. They seek to run America by Biblical Values.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

So where did the Nephilim come from? Guess I better ask Autowrench...

Sure! No problem.

Origin of the word: Nephilim

Nephilim are beings, who appear in the Hebrew Bible; specifically mentioned in the Book of Genesis and the Book of Numbers; they are also mentioned in other Biblical texts and in some non-canonical Jewish writings. They were called fallen ones because men’s hearts would fail at the sight of them.

The name Nephilim is Hebrew in origin, and means fallen ones. Nephilim is also a plural word, which refers to more than one Naphal. Nephilim, which are occasionally called Nefalim, are creatures who exist within the Hebrew Bible. They first appear in the Old Testament Book of Genesis, and then later on within the Book of Numbers. Outside of the Old Testament, numerous references to them can also be found in noncanonical Jewish literary works. There is a whole host of scholarly debate and myth surrounding these creatures, especially with regard to their Biblical roots and origin. Some theologians believe the Nephilim were the hybrid offspring of a group of fallen angels that bred with human women. Other Biblical scholars disagree with that first source of origin, and state that the Nephilim are actually the descendants of Seth and Cain. To this day the debate regarding who the Nephilim truly are rages on, with no end or solid conclusion in sight.

Abraham ibn Ezra, one of the most famous Jewish writers of the Middle Ages, has concluded that the reason the Nephilim were referred to as the fallen ones, is because anyone who looked upon them would instantly fall to the ground dead with fear. Abraham also suggested a second meaning of their name, which proposed that as the Nephilim were huge giants, that when they fell to the ground in battle, the whole earth shook which caused any human who was standing near them to fall to the ground too, as if a massive earthquake had just happened. This theory obviously goes against the notion that they were called the fallen ones, because they were the descendents of the fallen angels that were cast out of heaven during Lucifer's rebellion against God. The two proposals put forth by Abraham ibn Ezra, have been met with quite a bit of skepticism from certain groups of Jewish and Christian scholars, who mostly disagree with his conclusions.

The Targum Jonathan has claimed that the Nephilim are referred to as the fallen ones, because they are indeed the descendants of fallen angels. The foundation for this theory lies within the Book of Genesis, which seems to parallel statements that were also made within the Epistle of Jude. This scripture states that the undisputable paternity of the Nephilim are angels from heaven, who were thrown out by Michael. It then goes on to state that these fallen angels took human wives, and that they reproduced with them creating hybrid offspring. In the Book of Genesis Chapter 6 verse 4, the scripture implies that the Nephilim have roamed the earth twice, both before and after the great flood. Taking these passages into account, one would conclude that the Nephilim were superhumans, and giants amongst men. Many scholars are absolutely convinced that the giants of Canaan from the Book of Numbers Chapter 13, are in fact Nephilim.

Another theological interpretation of the fallen ones name and meaning, is that the reference means that they were fallen humans, as in men that had fallen from God's grace. There is further scriptural backing that might lead one to translate scripture to mean that they were the sons of nobles, not the sons of heaven, meaning they were not descended from fallen angels, merely high ranking social figures. This conclusion has been linked directly to Seth and Cain, and it has been proposed that they are the true source of the Nephilim. The Biblical academic consensus doesn't seem to favor this theory, as the Book of Genesis lies a pretty solid foundation for a counter conclusion. The reason such vastly different theories regarding the Nephilim have been put forth, is because decoding the separate translations of the Bible leaves a lot of space for errors to develop. It's unlikely the origin of the Nephilim will ever be solved.

source
I myself believe they are simply ET Beings. Nothing supernatural or "Godly" about them.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

The Bible has not been corrupted as you claim, there are thousends of manuscripts to back it up.

I ask you once again, RevelationGeneration, what are these "thousands of manuscripts," and where are they? Being as I keep asking and you refuse to answer, I say that is a lie. Prove me wrong.

reply to post by autowrench


hes talking about the same 5000 copies of the same new testament books that were distributed throughout the roman empire and fairly...contemporary to each other...

its as if the 25,000 years before 2000 BCE and the 1600 years after the CE dont matter...only a small window of time matters...lol

only 400 years starting from year zero are the really important years of history...everything else in history is imaginary, or heresy...

While my tone may have been harsh at times in this thread I wish it to be known I am not judging anyone here. We have differing views and that is fine. I have tried to show mine from a historical and spiritual source. I think the bible does not contradict and can stand on its own under scrutiny as well as guide us in almost any situation.

I am not an apologetics student, I don't even attend Church. People think if you accept the Bible as truth or you become a Christian that means you have to suddenly be a clone/robot/zombie join an organization and stop thinking and simply regurgitate things we have been taught without question. . This simply is not true. I don't have to agree with anyone's interpretation nor do I have to perform acts or rituals to ensure a relationship with God. I study the word which when rightly divided imparts truth. The truth has changed me in many ways and for the better I feel. God allows us all to exist for a reason and it is up to us whether we choose to go with the flow or against it. I will take what I have learned here and attempt to apply it to my life as there is a lesson in everything.

I can completely understand why some of you have abandoned the ideas in the Bible but I feel you should ask yourself if you have a beef with the institution and the followers who profess but do not act or If your problem is with God. Seems these ideas get lumped in together. Throwing the baby out with the bath water. Horrible things have been done by people under the guise of Christianity but that does not mean that God or Christ are directly to blame.

Christianity is a belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ and his mission. It is not a corporation, a social club, a world empire, the priest who raped a kid, the Pastor who cheated on his wife and embezzled money.

Lets all remember we are in this together and no matter what, the road to change begins with a single act of kindness. So let us all be more understanding and kind to each other. It is easy to forget that we are all here out of a need for good whether it is of a spiritual nature or of a social justice/political one.

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
I can completely understand why some of you have abandoned the ideas in the Bible but I feel you should ask yourself if you have a beef with the institution and the followers who profess but do not act or If your problem is with God. Seems these ideas get lumped in together. Throwing the baby out with the bath water. Horrible things have been done by people under the guise of Christianity but that does not mean that God or Christ are directly to blame.

Christianity is a belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ and his mission. It is not a corporation, a social club, a world empire, the priest who raped a kid, the Pastor who cheated on his wife and embezzled money.

...

problem was never with the creator, but i do have a problem with liars that try to put words in the creators mouth, or anyone's mouth...and that is pretty much it...no throwing the baby out with any bathwater...i took the baby, set it safely to the side and tossed the bathwater and the tub out...but the baby is fine...

Christianity is just the new, en vogue name for the Roman Catholic Church...because none of the doctrines, texts or liturgy has really changed...not the main ones anyway, and those are exactly the ones that made them the work of evil...it has very little to do with the pastor who cheats on his wife or embezzles the money meant for the disabled orphans fund...those are sad yes, and are symptoms, but not the real disease...

what i dont understand is why Christians get all indignant and emotional when their bible is exposed, and the history of the church is exposed? none of this is directed at Jesus or the creator...only the evils pushed on people in their names, but yet we are still accused of slighting them...

the bible is man made...the church is an evil that is man made in the name of the creator and Jesus... but it is not them...they can stand without either...and have before, and will again...

the bible is man made...the church is an evil that is man made in the name of the creator and Jesus... but it is not them...they can stand without either...and have before, and will again

reply to post by studythem1


While I agree with this.... Whole heartedly..... I do wonder sometimes.

What if...

What if Jesus incarnated to help put the original together? Lets say, after constantine? Thats really the only way I could feel " safe" believing all the stories.

I think for me... And maybe for you too.... We TRUST Jesus.... His word, perhaps some of the texts in the Bible but one can definitely feel mans control coming out instead of the word of god when reading the bible.

Ive read it like a book three times. Studied it. Felt like I knew it all.... But it does leave one with many questions more than answers.

In my opinion each ancient text, each person, has the divinity we search for .... That we long for.

Ive also been wondering as of late if maybe adam and jesus were the same soul, thats the only way it makes sense to me for the drama in which jesus finds himself in on the cross ( wood) for his death.

I love each bible that speaks of God. I can find truth anywhere.... And for me thats divine in and of itself to my soul. I get really excited, cant breath and all. Lol

Originally posted by NihilistSanta


Christianity is a belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ and his mission. It is not a corporation, a social club, a world empire, the priest who raped a kid, the Pastor who cheated on his wife and embezzled money.

Lets all remember we are in this together and no matter what, the road to change begins with a single act of kindness. So let us all be more understanding and kind to each other. It is easy to forget that we are all here out of a need for good whether it is of a spiritual nature or of a social justice/political one.

Like it or not, Christianity is more than just you. It is a machine that comes and knocks on people's doors, hands out literature, and invites people to come visit and then in many cases demands 10 percent of your income once you hang around.

Christianty is a belief that insults the apparent truth of other religions, such as Judaism and Islam, and really offends them. Plus, when most test the history of the Jesus theme it doesn't play out as anything more than Jesus has become a myth that supports old gods, that were not really gods. Even the Christian belief in god is a fraud, as the only real theme close to creator god is that of creation of the universe by some intelligent force that no one can fathom or depict.

So, it gets down to the issue of many faked up concepts you attempt to cite as some truth, but one that appears to depart from sense and sensibilty just due to your brand of god and your brand of devine, which is nothing in terms of the greater cosmos.


Any belief that has to embellish and attempt to make the history of a man interested in change into something much greater than the simple truth isn't really good at all. It is a story that has grown, like a Pinocchio's nose, that now has become the sanctuary for false teachings and departure from truth and reality, which fails the test of good.


Humanity is best served with the simple truths, not fabricated passion plays and the run on drama that isn't representative of universal truth on issues that are best called Mother Nature.

Originally posted by studythem1
Saturn was the veiled god...the god of blood sacrifices, who demanded blood for atonement (munera)...he was also the equivalent of Cronus, who ate his own children...his consorts were veiwed as extensions of himself and bore the attributes of wealth, abundance, resources and destruction, dissolution, loosening...his festival the Saturnalia, was also in December for 10 days starting on the 25th...

in other mythologies he was called El...Enlil...and more that i cannot remember...

Sunday is obviously dedicated to the Sun god Appolo...or RA or any of the other multitude of deities parallel...

but for simplicities sake, we will focus on Appolo and his attributes...recognized as a god of light and the sun, truth and prophecy, healing, plague, music, poetry, and more, he was the son of Zeus and Leto...and apparently his festivals were many, but some of the most significant occurred during December...

what is interesting is, that both of these gods were important on the two sabbath days of Judeo-Christian tradition...so there was not that far of a leap to make for the roman empire to accept the two faiths...and it was part of the reason that Constantine could easily reconcile Christianity with the older Roman rituals...

I am interested on how the animal dieties started. Could the jews have just seen what egyptians did and copied them? Or what led to people making animals out of gold and worshipping them, mostly animals with a human head? I don't want to sound too far fetched like the ancient astronaut theorists on the history channel, but could humans have had an attraction to worship animals because aliens created an animal hybrid (similar to the ones they would be making from the cattle mutilations because if you studied behind the disinformation of the subject, you would know that the reproductive genetics were of the most importance to those behind them) and showed it to them?

reply to post by NihilistSanta

Lets all remember we are in this together and no matter what, the road to change begins with a single act of kindness. So let us all be more understanding and kind to each other. It is easy to forget that we are all here out of a need for good whether it is of a spiritual nature or of a social justice/political one.

Hear, Hear! Well said. We, Humanity We, are in this together. We are facing the greatest test we could possibly imagine soon, navigating the Higher Dimensions, and interacting with Beings not of this World. Fear is the greatest enemy, so deal with your inner fear now, while you still can. When this Event happens, being a Christian or a Wiccan will not matter at all, save to provide a little comfort.

reply to post by autowrench


You have a brilliant taste in beers, my friend. Bud is king.

reply to post by studythem1

the Sumerian texts tell us they were on what many believe is Mars...

Oh, you're talking about the ones who used an artifical Merkahbah in order to travel through time and space, and wound up here. That arrival, if taken to be accurate, changed the entire course of our history. That's why we're scrambling to find true spirituality. The "Martians" were purely left-brained, the equivalent of a 40 year old man, and the Lemurians (I think) were right-brained - emotional, intuitive, passionate, and highly spiritual. They were the equivalent of a 10 year old girl. The "Martians" first tried to conquer them, then influenced their growth, before finally getting upset over a meteor crash killing some of their number and created an artificial Merkahbah...but that time, they did it wrong. Plagues and energies from other dimensions pretty much kicked Earth's posterior. Three days of darkness, we hit rock bottom. We had to climb from there.

Supposedly, it left us 15,000 years to reclaim our original enlightenment. Ra, Thoth, and some other entity constructed a spiritual net that would protect us during the vibrational shift. The pyramids mark ley lines, or magnetic latitude/longitudes, that correspond with strands of that net.

Originally posted by studythem1

the creator would not force the preservation of a text written by man because it is against the law of free will to do so...the creator will not break the laws that the creator set into motion...but humans will, and those that have tampered with us will, because they have gone against that law and the laws of nature...some do this in ignorance and and others do this knowing full well what they are doing...

Matthew 24:35

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Matthew 5:18

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luke 16:17

And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

reply to post by Deetermined


WHY DO YOU ALWAYS COPY AND PASTE YOUR ARGUMENTS FROM THE BLEEDING BIBLE??!!

Seriously, you're just copypasta-ing every rebuttal. THINK FOR YOURSELF...

reply to post by wildtimes


couple thoughs on ur post:

1. I didnt know about the half off tuition. It does not come from the seminary but from the southern baptist church your a member of. It was a surprise to me but why not take it?

I have resigned full time ministry position and lost salary/medical insurance etc simple because I learned and knew for a fact that leadership I was working with were dishonest about finances and harming the spiritual well being of the congregation by controlling them with twisted scripture and pressure to "be involved in some church ministry". So....its not all about the money for every christian minister

2. Its not historic accurate to say the bible has been changed in the past 2000 years. The Christian study system of apologetics deals with these manuscript and textual evidence questions. Its too much to go into here though I have explained some of it elswhere in this thread. To make a long story short, we have plenty of manuscripts of the New Testament (over 5000) that date back very close to the time of Christ. Those manuscripts, known as the textus receptus, have NEVER been changed and is where we get the King James Bible from. The new bibles like the NIV, have taken a small amount of manuscripts found mostly in Alexandria Egypt, and mashed these together with the textus receptus collection and hence "new" versions. However some like me, reject these new versions as well as the Egyptian manuscripts. For me personally there are several reasons why I reject these new manuscripts: a. I have studied a great of occult doctrine and occult language. There is a good deal of occultic terms and references in the Egyptian manuscripts and so there is a good deal of occultism in the new bible versions. There is no doubt about this. I can put a new bible side by side with occult writings such as Madame Blavaskys theosophy books or Albert Pikes masonic book Morals and Dogma and show you similar terms found in all those works. Terms not even remotely hinted at in the textus recptus collection. b. The men who did the work on joining the new manuscripts to the old established ones and made the new bible manuscript, were themselves occultists. Their names were Westcott and Hort. They lived in England and were involved in spiritism and seiances, ouiji boards, etc which was getting popular when they were working on the new bible around the late 1800's early 1900's. In many of their writings, they showed a biase to change the christian faith to a more open occult type one. A lot of people dont know but strange things happened to the staff that helped Westcott and Hort with the new bibles. 4 of them lost the ability to speak. One of the staff leaders renounced the new bible as evil on his death bedand pointed to the fact that the matter was done on purpose and for anti-christian reasons. I know he was telling the truth based on the evidence. c. I reject the Egyptian manuscripts for a biblical reason: The bible asks "can anything good come out of Egypt?" The intended answer is that no, in the spiritual ream, Egypt can offer nothing because Israel is God's intended nation to reveal himself. There is simply no need for "new" "Egyptian" "bibles". God does not need Egyptian scriptures found centuries later.

I stick to the King James and im reading scripture that has not been changed and that is a FACT of history. No offense but we must accept historical facts even if we dont like them. If you want to learn why the New Testament is a historically valid work....do some internet studying on Apologetics and within apologetics, look up the sections that deal with the New Testament and the issues you raised. It's dealt with in a scholarly manner as oppsed to "well this is how I feel about it" or "the New TEstament has to have been changed, it could never be preserved, etc etc"

reply to post by Elsha

I have resigned full time ministry position and lost salary/medical insurance etc simple because I learned and knew for a fact that leadership I was working with were dishonest about finances and harming the spiritual well being of the congregation by controlling them with twisted scripture and pressure to "be involved in some church ministry". So....its not all about the money for every christian minister

Good for you. You might be interested in discussing things with Klassified and MamaJ. I was not part of the evangelical or fundamental or Baptist traditions in any way, but I attended a "revival" once with a friend in junior high, and it rattled me intensely. Never looked back...I just ran. It felt evil (sorry).

I stick to the King James and im reading scripture that has not been changed and that is a FACT of history. No offense but we must accept historical facts even if we dont like them. If you want to learn why the New Testament is a historically valid work....do some internet studying on Apologetics and within apologetics, look up the sections that deal with the New Testament and the issues you raised. It's dealt with in a scholarly manner as oppsed to "well this is how I feel about it" or "the New TEstament has to have been changed, it could never be preserved, etc etc"

Thank you, Elsha, for your thoughtful post.

I see that you are willing to discard rote dogma in favor of scholarly updates. And I apologize for my snide remark about them paying your tuition. Fair enough.

As for the KJ Bible being "not changed", I'm sorry but I have done my homework, too. I am quite aware of all the various edits and translations, and I have studied apologetics stuff. Further, I have recently completed a geneaology-based novel going indepth into the beliefs of that time (the 17th century), AND as a linguist, have studied at length the "language" they used. It is not as easy to decipher as some would think. Phraseology, metaphor, syntax, and verbiage is quite different from what we have today, and CERTAINLY different from what the "original" texts said, simply by virtue of being a translation of translations. I have worked professionally as an interpreter and translator (not in those ancient languages; in Spanish and English) and can tell you absolutely that translation is a very precise art.

Much of translation is in the "spirit" or "meaning" of idioms and usage, and this is not the thread to go into it, but I have over 40 years of study under my belt in the differences between those two very closely related languages. Imagine the difficulty of rendering into English an ancient, lost language, let alone the decoding!!

I'm not simply saying "this is how I feel about it".

The Bible in its modern form has CERTAINLY been translated and edited and redacted and reconstructed...

for "facts on the ground", I recommend you read Robert Wright's The Evolution of God.
It is based entirely on the history of mankind's fascination (or obsession, if you like) with understanding the "mysteries."

It is written in an entertaining, open manner, and does not dismiss the idea of a Divine, nor the possibility of the existence of a Creator with Intent.

You seem an open-minded enough person to really get something out of it. I grew up in the Episcopal church, Elsha, the KJV was our Bible. There is no question that it has been translated and edited, just as the Nicean product was. I have studied these issues for decades...comparative world religions, mythologies, and philosophies. I'm not one of your typical "armchair naysayers." I am perfectly willing to give you the respect you deserve for having looked beyond your teachers' bias, and hope I am able to earn in-kind respect.

Thanks again, and I hope you take the opportunity to add Mr Wright's brilliant piece of scholarly work to your knowledge base. Please keep us up to date on your findings. It will take all of us, with our unique offerings, to get to the truth.

All the best, and "Namaste"
~wild