A Challenge to Chemtrail Believers - Explain this 1969 Issue of Popular Science:

reply to post by Uncinus


I've seen persistent ones occur within the same elevation and vicinity of non-persistent ones, and have learned to tell the difference, chemtrails tend to go misty, fall down (and the particularized bits are evident) and slip into a lower airlevel -- the top level is white, the lower level is a grey color. And if there weren't chemtrails explain all the traffic that does not stick to regular air traffic corridors as outlined on the air traffic maps?

Originally posted by robbo961

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by robbo961
good post!, one that i'm sure will have a lot us believers re-evaluating our evidence. However, some of the evidence cannot be dismissed as 'con trails' you see, targeting obvious areas of the sky with contrails just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. As you can see from the photo in the link, this area of the sky is definately 'targeted' and if anyone wants to say that this is a freak accident (the patterns created by the trails) then I'm afraid i will do the face-palm thing myself

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Do the face-palm thing all you like, ever hear of wind?

Nope! not wind that can form geometrical shapes in the sky, fluffy elephants maybe. Instead of dismissive retorts why don't you explain the targeted area that has been specifically selected to be sprayed? Random contrails will not do that, no matter how creative the wind gets.

They are not targeted, there are just only five north atlantic tracks, and five waypoints off the coast of the US. So naturally they form patterns like that if conditions are right.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
See, it works like this, numb-nuts....you have an idea...you get a patent...you create your idea, and HOPEFULLY, you have enough money to manufacture your idea. It's not as simple as, having an idea, getting a patent, and then TAH-DAH...you got yourself a finished product. After you BUILD your idea, and make it a reality...you have to test it, and test it, and test it...before you sell it!

Let TESLA be your example!

Numb nuts? Alright, when you get to high school, take some science classes. Since my "contrail theory" doesn't make sense to you, I guess there is some magical patent for clouds as well.

Grow up, study, quit being an internet idiot, and learn.

reply to post by SpittinTruth

Do you always need to be spoon fed?

Are you new to ATS?

I asked for a link so you could show that you didn't just type something up trying to pass it off as evidence. It really isn't that hard to figure out.

reply to post by SpittinTruth


Your logic is by definition illogical mate.

He asked you to show how one of the patents is real, you replied by making the irrelevant statement that having money means you make stuff happen.

A patent is just a patent, I can go out with a design drawn on a piece of paper showing a fifty foot ballon in the shape of my balls and patent it as an idea for scaring crows away from little old women or something, and I can get that idea patented. So what.

You're dodging the argument.

Originally posted by SpittinTruth

Originally posted by Thorazine

Originally posted by SpittinTruth


You seen these contrails...up CLOSE and PERSONAL, eh? REALLY? How so? Did they attach you to the engines. What foolish comments people make. And you want us to believe your 'theories'? hahahahahah I am getting a good chuckle tho'.

Could someone please get the chemtrail debunker manager. I'm tired of talking to measly little employees!

yes- and you can too:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

You said: UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL. Personal means in person! Youtube videos dont count!

Here's something for you to chew on, regarding your whole: "who's adding aluminum" comment

Troposphere-based (cloud modification methods, etc.); Creating reflective aerosols, such as stratospheric sulfur aerosols, aluminum oxide particles, even specifically designed self-levitating aerosols with the purpose of increasing the up-air residence time.[32] Another often mentioned approach is Cloud whitening – using fine sea water spray to whiten clouds and thus increase cloud reflectivity.

edit on 19-7-2012 by SpittinTruth because: (no reason given)

Ok - you got me I have not been strapped to the outside of a jet plane and flown thru a contrail...but many contrail have, in fact, been sampled in the air...

As for you chewing on Aluminum...you forgot to include- in your selective copy/past job from wikipedia- that comment was found under PROPOSED strategies...as in possible future strategies.

Can you say with certainty that a mitigation project designed to put things in the atmosphere to stay- would - without question- NOT stay in the atmosphere but instead end up in the soil?

Moreover- (this is where that pesky evidence comes into play again) - can you please show the quantitative data that shows an increase in Aluminum globally and its correlation with supposed "chemtrail" activity...

Unless you can provide this your claims are devoid of substance and your credibility null.

Originally posted by TheLastStand
reply to post by Uncinus

 

I've seen persistent ones occur within the same elevation and vicinity of non-persistent ones, and have learned to tell the difference, chemtrails tend to go misty, fall down (and the particularized bits are evident) and slip into a lower airlevel -- the top level is white, the lower level is a grey color. And if there weren't chemtrails explain all the traffic that does not stick to regular air traffic corridors as outlined on the air traffic maps?

The problem is you can't really tell if they are same elevation. 32,000 feet looks pretty much the same as 35,000 feet, especially if the planes are not the same size.



And just a few hundred feet can make all the difference.

Originally posted by TheLastStand
And if there weren't chemtrails explain all the traffic that does not stick to regular air traffic corridors as outlined on the air traffic maps?

There's nothing that says traffic has to stick to those corridors. They are just navigations aids. Jets can fly direct point-to-point if they want.

Originally posted by robbo961

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by robbo961
good post!, one that i'm sure will have a lot us believers re-evaluating our evidence. However, some of the evidence cannot be dismissed as 'con trails' you see, targeting obvious areas of the sky with contrails just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. As you can see from the photo in the link, this area of the sky is definately 'targeted' and if anyone wants to say that this is a freak accident (the patterns created by the trails) then I'm afraid i will do the face-palm thing myself

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Do the face-palm thing all you like, ever hear of wind?

Nope! not wind that can form geometrical shapes in the sky, fluffy elephants maybe. Instead of dismissive retorts why don't you explain the targeted area that has been specifically selected to be sprayed? Random contrails will not do that, no matter how creative the wind gets.

You can only spray on target at low altitudes, aka crop spraying, and the much referenced agent orange operations in the Vietnam conflict. Spraying anything at high altitude is like.....p*ssing in the wind, you can't target jack. That's why I laugh when I hear chemtrailers say things like 'they targeted the area of the sky in front of the sun" Yeah sure they did, I mean are people really that thick, you bet they are.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by robbo961

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by robbo961
good post!, one that i'm sure will have a lot us believers re-evaluating our evidence. However, some of the evidence cannot be dismissed as 'con trails' you see, targeting obvious areas of the sky with contrails just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. As you can see from the photo in the link, this area of the sky is definately 'targeted' and if anyone wants to say that this is a freak accident (the patterns created by the trails) then I'm afraid i will do the face-palm thing myself

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Do the face-palm thing all you like, ever hear of wind?

Nope! not wind that can form geometrical shapes in the sky, fluffy elephants maybe. Instead of dismissive retorts why don't you explain the targeted area that has been specifically selected to be sprayed? Random contrails will not do that, no matter how creative the wind gets.

They are not targeted, there are just only five north atlantic tracks, and five waypoints off the coast of the US. So naturally they form patterns like that if conditions are right.

en.wikipedia.org...

good point! but it would appear that each trail shows that each airport is the same distance apart from north to south (how likely is that?) and all the trail 'sections' (the bunches of fives if you like) all appear to be flying sychronious flight paths, just like a synchronized swimming team.

Originally posted by TheLastStand
reply to post by Uncinus

 

chemtrails tend to go misty, fall down (and the particularized bits are evident) and slip into a lower airlevel -- the top level is white, the lower level is a grey color. And if there weren't chemtrails explain all the traffic that does not stick to regular air traffic corridors as outlined on the air traffic maps?

watch a days worth of air traffic- which are the regular air traffic corridors?:

www.youtube.com...

the "misty" stuff is the ice crystals falling- "fall streaks" they are called- have a look at this paper where they studied several persistent contrails that had these fall streaks. (check out the pics at the end)

journals.ametsoc.org...

Originally posted by robbo961

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by robbo961

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by robbo961
good post!, one that i'm sure will have a lot us believers re-evaluating our evidence. However, some of the evidence cannot be dismissed as 'con trails' you see, targeting obvious areas of the sky with contrails just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. As you can see from the photo in the link, this area of the sky is definately 'targeted' and if anyone wants to say that this is a freak accident (the patterns created by the trails) then I'm afraid i will do the face-palm thing myself

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Do the face-palm thing all you like, ever hear of wind?

Nope! not wind that can form geometrical shapes in the sky, fluffy elephants maybe. Instead of dismissive retorts why don't you explain the targeted area that has been specifically selected to be sprayed? Random contrails will not do that, no matter how creative the wind gets.

They are not targeted, there are just only five north atlantic tracks, and five waypoints off the coast of the US. So naturally they form patterns like that if conditions are right.

en.wikipedia.org...

good point! but it would appear that each trail shows that each airport is the same distance apart from north to south (how likely is that?) and all the trail 'sections' (the bunches of fives if you like) all appear to be flying sychronious flight paths, just like a synchronized swimming team.

It's nothing to do with airports. Read the wikipedia link. It's the North Atlantic Tracks. There's five tracks. All traffic goes along the same five tracks.

Originally posted by SpittinTruth

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by SpittinTruth


Who is adding more aluminum to the earth? hahahahahahahah Please...continue with your IDIOCRACY!

Can't you answer??

I know I can't - I dont' know anyone who is adding more aluminium to the earth.

I guess some must arrive as space dust I seem to recall hundreds of tons fall to earth every day....

Amazing you got over 9,000 stars. Truly, truly amazing. I guess you've never heard of geoengineering, right? Or maybe you didn't know that they were using aluminum to deflect the sun's rays. hmmmmm You should give me 1,000 of your stars. You don't deserve them!

I've heard of geoengineering - I've even heard of plans to "spray" aluminium/barioum nanoparticles.

But those are not "adding more aluminium to the earth" - they are using he aluminium that is already on/in the earth.

from yuo comment it sems to me you do not understand the concept that aluminium mined from teh earth and then sprayed in any manner would not actually be "adding more aluminium to the earth" - all it would be doing is redistributing the aluminium that is already "in" the earth.

it is no great surprise to me that you would not understand this - a disappointment, but not a surprise.

Originally posted by Uncinus
Chemtrail believers claim that persistent contrails are a new thing, and they call the persistent trails "chemtrails". They also claims that contrails don't last a long time, and they certainly don't spread out and cause cirrus clouds and overcast skies. They also claim the chemtrails started in the late 1990s.

And yet, here's an issue of Popular Science, from 1969, 43 years ago, which says:

How Jet Planes affect weather

The reflectivity of the earth is also altered by jet contrails, say Dr. Walter Orr Roberts, director of the National Center for Atmospheric Research.

Contrails, Dr. Roberts explains, do not simply spread out at the 30-40,000-foot altitudes where jets fly, but spawn cirrus clouds by seeding the upper atmosphere with ice crystals from the water vapor in jet exhaust. On a clear day, you can often see this happening near heavily traveled airways.

"It is almost certain that on many occasions - 30 to 40 days a year, say - the cause of cirrus cloud cover can take in a substantial part of a continent, perhaps half of the U.S., and has a substantial influence on our radiation budget"

- Popular Science, May 1969, Page 76

So if contrails did this 43 years ago, and back then they were doing it for 30 to 40 days of the year, then why do some people insist that this is something new? Why the mantra of "contrails fade away, chemtrails persist and spread"? Clearly contrails quite frequently persist and spread, at least according to the science of 43 years ago.

So consider your options here, what could be going on?

A) The Popular Science Article is a modern fake. Clearly not true, Popular Science was a magazine with a very high circulation, and there are thousands of copies of this issue still in existence, all of which are the same. This particular copy I bought on eBay for $3. Many people have collections that include this copy. It's impossible for it to be a modern fake unless that includes having a time machine.

B) The Popular Science Article is 1969 Propaganda, brainwashing people for the chemtrails to come. If this were true it would be quite breathtakingly ambitious, risky, and entirely nonsensical. Why would they put an article in a magazine about something that they were not planning to do for 30 years? Why would they put descriptions of things that anyone with eyes could see were not happening at the time? They expect nobody to notice this blatant lie for 30 years?

C) The Popular Science Article is true. Contrails do quite often persist and spread and turn into cirrus clouds and affect the weather. The claims of movies like "What In The World Are They Spraying" are lies.

So what do you think, chemtrail believers? One of the above? Something else? Clearly someone is lying to you. Is it me? Is it Popular Science from 43 years ago? Or is it Michael J. Murphy?

There's nothing to "figure out". A cirrus cloud doesn't even resemble a contrail or a chemtrail. Thus, you know you are dealing with something other than simply exhaust contrails if said "contrail"-like formation still retains more or less it's original shape many hours later. Doubly so if this "contrail" also persists over the same geographic area and doesn't tend to move along with the rest of the clouds in the atmosphere.

Here are some links to what cirrus clouds looks like...they are mighty different in appearance to modern chemtrails.

Link: ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu...
Link: science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...
Link: science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by WiseThinker


You live in a fairy tale where military personnel can opt out of missions -.-.

Please think before you post....

Namaste

Evidently, it is not as dictatorial as you would present...they can and have opted out...the F-22 ended up grounded because of oxygen deprivation...

abcnews.go.com...

So, it was the pilots' refusal to fly that gave the results...

NOW HERE IS THE REAL KICKER...

If the pilots of the F-22 are going to refuse to fly this over oxygen deprivation (hypoxia), then do you not believe other pilots would revolt over something that would also, according to chemtrail theorists, be just as deadly in the long run? Not only to them, but their families?

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by robbo961

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by robbo961

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by robbo961
good post!, one that i'm sure will have a lot us believers re-evaluating our evidence. However, some of the evidence cannot be dismissed as 'con trails' you see, targeting obvious areas of the sky with contrails just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. As you can see from the photo in the link, this area of the sky is definately 'targeted' and if anyone wants to say that this is a freak accident (the patterns created by the trails) then I'm afraid i will do the face-palm thing myself

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Do the face-palm thing all you like, ever hear of wind?

Nope! not wind that can form geometrical shapes in the sky, fluffy elephants maybe. Instead of dismissive retorts why don't you explain the targeted area that has been specifically selected to be sprayed? Random contrails will not do that, no matter how creative the wind gets.

They are not targeted, there are just only five north atlantic tracks, and five waypoints off the coast of the US. So naturally they form patterns like that if conditions are right.

en.wikipedia.org...

good point! but it would appear that each trail shows that each airport is the same distance apart from north to south (how likely is that?) and all the trail 'sections' (the bunches of fives if you like) all appear to be flying sychronious flight paths, just like a synchronized swimming team.

It's nothing to do with airports. Read the wikipedia link. It's the North Atlantic Tracks. There's five tracks. All traffic goes along the same five tracks.

Yes mate, I read it! I went to the link. Five Atlantic tracks. all on gradually converging tracks with equal distances apart. No variances in their flight paths like the airports were built at locations to suit the flight paths rather than the other way around. I think I need a better explanation than flight paths, that just doesn't add up to me.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by SpittinTruth

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by SpittinTruth


Who is adding more aluminum to the earth? hahahahahahahah Please...continue with your IDIOCRACY!

Can't you answer??

I know I can't - I dont' know anyone who is adding more aluminium to the earth.

I guess some must arrive as space dust I seem to recall hundreds of tons fall to earth every day....

Amazing you got over 9,000 stars. Truly, truly amazing. I guess you've never heard of geoengineering, right? Or maybe you didn't know that they were using aluminum to deflect the sun's rays. hmmmmm You should give me 1,000 of your stars. You don't deserve them!

I've heard of geoengineering - I've even heard of plans to "spray" aluminium/barioum nanoparticles.

But those are not "adding more aluminium to the earth" - they are using he aluminium that is already on/in the earth.

from yuo comment it sems to me you do not understand the concept that aluminium mined from teh earth and then sprayed in any manner would not actually be "adding more aluminium to the earth" - all it would be doing is redistributing the aluminium that is already "in" the earth.

it is no great surprise to me that you would not understand this - a disappointment, but not a surprise.

edit on 19-7-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

What's disappointing is your grammar. Now, i'm not one to nit-pick, but...if you want to make your point clear...it' always starts with proper grammar. At least...proof-read your own stupidity, BEFORE you pass it off as "knowledge".

Also, like i said..previously....NO ONE KNOWS what's going on. But, it's SURPRISING to find...know-it-alls like yourself, think they 'know it all'. Please...you know NOTHING, and neither do i. At least...i can admit it. At least, i'm AWARE of their plans of eugenics and depopulation.

To say: "nothing is going on" is LUDACRIS! hahahahaha (improperly spelled...of course) Follow the "global warming/cooling" trend, and you'll understand why they're doing, what they're doing.

reply to post by SpittinTruth


so my typing sucks - sue me.

Were you meaning to demonstrate some ability to comprehend the questin "who is adding aluminium to the earth?" - perhaps starting with demonstrating that you understand what "adding aluminium to the earth" actually means??

Clearly something is "going on" - aircraft are flying to (try to) make profits for their owners and operators, and are making contrails as a result.

did you have any actual evidence of anythign else, or are you just going to continue to spout unsupported assertions as if the more yuo say them the more true they become??

Originally posted by milominderbinder
There's nothing to "figure out". A cirrus cloud doesn't even resemble a contrail or a chemtrail. Thus, you know you are dealing with something other than simply exhaust contrails if said "contrail"-like formation still retains more or less it's original shape many hours later. Doubly so if this "contrail" also persists over the same geographic area and doesn't tend to move along with the rest of the clouds in the atmosphere.

Here are some links to what cirrus clouds looks like...they are mighty different in appearance to modern chemtrails.

Link: ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu...
Link: science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...
Link: science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...

edit on 19-7-2012 by milominderbinder because: minor formatting error

Contrails don't initially resemble cirrus clouds, but they eventually spread out and become indistinguishable from them. Then they are referred to as "contrail cirrus".

popular science is owned, run and controlled by masons. there, i just put a huge whole in your logic. look for the truth somewhere else. contrails and chemtrails are 2 different things. one is a natural, hot air from the engine hitting cold air high up in the sky and condensing and disappearing after a few seconds. just like your breath in the winter. the other, chemtrails, is poison and stays in the sky for hours, spreading into a white milky blanket that covers the whole sky. poison haze.