We Don't Know [SNIP]

Originally posted by TheJourney
After a lot of time spent contemplating and researching various philosophic and spiritual concepts, I have disocvered something. Frankly, we don't know #. What I mean is this. I research endlessly, expecting to find some definitive answer on things. In the end, what I find is various people making educated guesses, the best of which are guided by logic. In other words, noone seems to really KNOW about anything.

Everyone seems to have some education, and make their best guess based on logic. Well guess what? This is what I do too! In other words, I am in no less of a position to theorize about anything, the nature of reality and so forth, than anyone else. I'm just takign in the knowledge I have available to me, which is fairly expansive. I'm just using my intelligence and logic, which is fairly well developed. After all of this, I develop a theory. One might think this is just 'some theory,' not entirely legitimate. But guess what? If you look into all the other theories...everyone else is doing the same thing. Noone KNOWS #, really.

edit on 15-7-2012 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-7-2012 by Gemwolf because: Removed profanity from title

I'll quote this

The realization of being unknowing, and that everyone is just as unknowing is a wonderfull start to really begin to investigate.

I am just as unknowing as you are

Should we stop truth/knowledge seeking and just say f it all and just enjoy life and who knows what the # happens after we die?

Well to put a question like that, while we are all unknowing, the answer should come from the one source that is most pure, which is found within yourself.
One can ask himself why do i seek? and what is truth? since we all have our truth which is conflicting with eachother.
Can the actual be narrowed down? into a description? which will then be called truth?

Questions raises questions

reply to post by earthling42


Truth IMO, is that which is objective. Something you can prove to everyone. For example the sun's existence, or when you fall it hurts. Obviously what really matters are the essential truths: purpose of life, what happens after we die, etc.

All the essential truths IMO are unknowable by humans. We can't know them because we were born not knowing them and therefore can't know them because wouldent be able to know what they are even if they would be in front of our faces.

To quote Socrates,"I know that I know nothing". Thus is the absurdity of the human condition, we yearn to find answers to the big question, the meaning of life and we will never be able to answer that question in our present state of perspective. How can we understand what is beyond the consciousness that we are emersed in? So it makes me smile to hear of all the lettered experts, who expound upon the greatness of their knowledge and wisdom...they have neither; in fact they have less because they have not the knowledge nor the wisdom to know that they have neither wisdom or knowledge. So what's a person to do? Seek all of your answers from inside. That is the only answer that is logical.

This is called "Agnosticism".

"A person seeking the truth will most likely choose agnosticism. All of the other choices require faith."

I say that is an epic quote.


"For that is what an agnostic is, a seeker. One who seeks the answers to the questions that, to date, no one has definitive answers for such as, Is there a god? What is man's purpose? Is there a heaven? Is there a hell? Etc. If there were empirical evidence that established the answers to these questions, there would be no debate on the subject."

Your thoughts...?

Originally posted by MrUncreated
That's why I always laugh when someone tells me, "Do your own research!" You can't research unless there are facts to research. It's all speculation, and nothing more. A lot of contradictions, too, which makes it even worse.

When someone says "Do Your Own Research", they are telling you to get off your butt, get on the internet and start looking things up for yourself just like the rest of us do. If you sit behind the keyboard and spout off things without actually going out on the net and doing some investigative work of your own, relying on others to do your work for you, you really don't know anything at all.

Goto Google, Bing, Webcrawler, Alta-Vista, Ask or any of the many search engines to start with. Learn BOOLEAN controls to searching to refine your searches. Read all you can. Form your own OPINIONS based on what you find. You will chose sides on topics and issues based on the information you read.

Well with logical thinking and knowledge of gravational force I can come up with this:

My guess is that you have a body? That body is made of atoms(energy) and have mass. That mass interacts with reality around you by gravitional force and change the whole universe. You might not think it but you being at a specific place on earth changes the whole universe in a very small way but it still does. So you are a part of the universe affecting the whole universe. And we are still only talking about gravitonal force. You are a part of the whole affecting the whole. And that can be seen as a nondual reality where everything can be seen as ONE whole and everything is a part of it.

It might not be Bhagavad Gita but I cant find any faults in my reasoning.

From what I have experiansed I can write this:

Now you can if you want to go the spiritual route and play around with chakra and see if you can figure out more on how the systems of reality work by obeserving/experiancing things. But try to be objective if you want to and try to see if you mind is affecting the observation/experiance.

reply to post by TheJourney


I know for a fact you all need to eat sleep and #. I also know for a fact that if you have time to think about such things and post on a website you have all of your needs met. If your needs were not met you would have no time to think of such rot.

So thIs means that I only exIst and you guys are just an Illusion? How do I know If any of you really exIst, I know I exIst.

reply to post by TheJourney


The mathematician Kurt Gödel proposed theories, called the "Incompleteness Theorems" which suggest that there can never be a perfect knowledge of a rigorous system and even the things we think are true, we can never prove either - hence, "we can't EVER know [SNIP] anyway".

Originally posted by WilburMercer
Seek all of your answers from inside. That is the only answer that is logical.

I believe everyone is born without answers or questions inside, only the tools for creating answers and questions is what nature gives us. The answers and questions come to be as one grows up after one learns all kinds of things including logic after which all other logic other humans in different parts of the world have grown up with seem illogical and from the other perspective it's the same.

Although it would be great if whoever/whatever created life left some message inside DNA explaining us our origins, the reason of our existence in dreams while we sleep at night. Until someone finds it I'd go with believing we are without truth but whatever we make it up to be.

reply to post by TheJourney


That is the bottom line.....period!

Everything from religion, the big bang theory, black holes, and everything else is nothing but THEORY.

Some may seem more plausible than others but in the end they are just theories.

reply to post by TheJourney


Well, now you're all the way back to about 400 B.C. lol. So now you get to try to figure out what knowledge is, and what it's based upon. Welcome to philosophy!lol

Now, now. Everybody knows a little #. For example... the correct ratio of # to dirt = wonderful harvests and beautiful flowers. When a star is blown to #, there results the creation of precious metals. If you put another kind of # under enough heat and pressure, you get coal, then further down the line you get diamonds. In a nutshell, know your #.

reply to post by TheJourney

We know nothing but of ourselves. There is little truth in knowledge. What is right and wrong?

One of the biggest "problems" with knowing what is right... and by right I mean natural, real; is that the world we have let happen is so against the natural state of being, that trying to live in that natural state to the full is almost impossible.

When you try to be totally free, you quickly see the prison bars. So you have to have a duality, where the true you knows the life you need and want, and the other you has to navigate this rotted system. So following the natural path can easily seem like it is wrong, because as soon as you try, you bang into the barriers.

However, if you can see the bars, then you are heading in the right direction without doubt. It is the hardest path, and you will seem out of place with all this madness that is going on around us. Real truth about life is buried deep inside ourselves, and is like an undiscovered universe. The more you open yourself to ideas, truth, and as new-agey as it sounds.... love, the real nature of why you are here comes into view. Sounds like mumbo jumbo, but it isn't really.

We all have a purpose, otherwise we wouldn't be here. The only thing I know for certain is that we need to follow the path that feels right and natural for each of us.

I think that was what Bruce Lee was saying when he said, be water my friend.

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0
"A person seeking the truth will most likely choose agnosticism. All of the other choices require faith."

I say that is an epic quote.


"For that is what an agnostic is, a seeker. One who seeks the answers to the questions that, to date, no one has definitive answers for such as, Is there a god? What is man's purpose? Is there a heaven? Is there a hell? Etc. If there were empirical evidence that established the answers to these questions, there would be no debate on the subject."

Your thoughts...?

edit on 15-7-2012 by 0thetrooth0 because: (no reason given)

The answer would be completely ignored. The You Tube video would have 11 hits.

The debates will rage on.. while we still see ourselves as the center of the universe.

Originally posted by volafox
Now, now. Everybody knows a little #. For example... the correct ratio of # to dirt = wonderful harvests and beautiful flowers. When a star is blown to #, there results the creation of precious metals. If you put another kind of # under enough heat and pressure, you get coal, then further down the line you get diamonds. In a nutshell, know your #.

Yes we even know how to turn # into meat.