F-16 obliterates Innocent Iraqi Civilians

news.independent.co.uk...

"Oh, dude." .. that about sums this load of bollocks of a war up. War crimes ahoy?

Fox news reported this? why not?

The American slogon should be:-
U.S Land of hope and glory, making more enemies daily!!

This is not good for the U.S who have a rubbish history of friendly fire.

www.channel4.com...

[edit on 7-10-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

Yup, clearly a war crime. Or so I'm told by that article, huh?

I have a couple of questions that need to be asked before I join the "hang'em high" band wagon. Where might I go to see the video for myself? A reporter telling me that the people were "clearly" unarmed means nothing to me. I live in a country where the media is free to be as biased as it pleases, a media that will spend months combing through the president's LES's he received while in training in Alabama, but won't even check to see who was actually the president when the president's rival claims to have been on a secret mission across Cambodian borders in December 1968!

Is it clear to the reporter casually watching this, or would it not be quite as clear to the very busy crewman of an F-16?

We still have people that will only acknowledge that Hussein was a bad man if they can add the, "...but America had no right to..." tag at the end, but are more than happy to crucify an American serviceman.

Do we have any F-16 pilots around here who could shed a bit of light on this subject?

From the description of the event I believe they are referring to the footage we have seen on ATS before. It sounds like the footage of the group of people walking down the street. If I remember correctly, this group were allegedly attending an "insurgent meeting" at a hall or something. I can't seem to find the thread that whis was talked about though.

Innocent until PROVEN guilty....


I see no PROOF here....


just another story for the Anti Bush people to rant and rave about...

Already discussed here:
Previous Thread
You can see the actual video there.

I fail to see how attacking a group of enemy soldiers can even remotely be considered a crime.

The F-16 engaged a group of people who came out of a building that was previously ID'd as an enemy location. The pilot was directed to make the attack from higher authority.

As a result of the attack I am sure that there were both coalition and civilian casualties that were averted.

How nice is to be so cold hearted as the death of people that do not concern us even if the invaders of their country are the one targeting and killing and again the "innocents" that dies are just part of the war of liberation by the invader, now if the "innocent' civilians were dying in a war of liberation by their own country then they are tag martyrs of their cause.

But again is so hard for the "liberators" to distinguish the "terrorist" from the freedom and resistance fighters against the "invaders" is easier for the "liberators" to tag all of them "terrorist" even if they are in their own country.

funny how US find justifications for the death.

I watched the video, and I believe it to be a surgical strike at armed insurgents. You can't tell if they have weapons in their hands, but even if they didn't the pilot was relying on ground intelligence that this was a safe-house for the insurgents. Upon seeing them leave the building in-mass, the pilot asked if he should target the fighters or the building. It's very possible that they had just finished a meeting discussing an attack, and were on their way to pick up guns and ammunition. Either that or, someone down the street yelled "Free pizza!" I can't think of another reason for them to swarm out of the building in that manner.

THe video with our benifits of hindsight and the ability to look at it over and over again IMHO clearly shows a strike on armed insurgents. Period. Givien the fact that the F-16 pilot was in a jet moving at a high rate of speed was able to see and target them is a incredible IMHO.

marg,

Are simply flame baiting this morning with the Anti-US rhetoric?

Originally posted by FredT

marg,

Are simply flame baiting this morning with the Anti-US rhetoric?

No just looking and analysing the realities of our "war on terror" is nothing more and nothing else that a war for power and the target "Iraqi oil fields" is a nice littler analysis of these on another thread, and as for me I have always beleive that the invasion of Iraq is not about the people but about the "oil"

I think you're correct Marg. The situation in Sudan is far worse. Some estimate that up to 400 people a day are dying there from fighting, still the UN won't do much about it. (As usual) The US won't stop it since there's not enough oil there to worry about it.

Originally posted by dbates
still the UN won't do much about it. (As usual) The US won't stop it since there's not enough oil there to worry about it.

Where is the mighty UN? Why should Sudan be left to the US. Countries love to make a moral stand against US actions, yet sit idly by and allow events like Rwanda and Sudan take place.

Originally posted by marg6043
No just looking and analysing the realities of our "war on terror" is nothing more and nothing else that a war for power and the target "Iraqi oil fields" is a nice littler analysis of these on another thread, and as for me I have always beleive that the invasion of Iraq is not about the people but about the "oil"

Funny, what does that have to do with this topic.

Much like in every other topic you join you move away from the issue and spew your anti-war, anti-bush, anti-US everything.

The topic for discussion here is on the attack by the F-16 on insurgents coming out of a house that had been previously ID'd as a enemy location.

If you cannot limit yourself to discussing that specific item then please remove yourself from this thread.


[edit on 7/10/04 by COOL HAND]

I think you should be careful who you call "Anti-US". If i'm not mistaken, Marg's family is full of decorated American military serving patriots. She has every right to be "Anti-Bush" and she has every right to be "Anti-War", but to label her "Anti-US" when she has clearly stated her families commitment to defending America, the country she calls home, I find to be disgusting.

While Marg should openly come down on you like a ton of bricks, I don't believe it's in her nature. I could be wrong, and you may find out one day if you continue to fling insults of that magnitude.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Funny, what does that have to do with this topic.

Much like in every other topic you join you move away from the issue

It's not really off topic too far. Just a jig to the left. I guess the discussion is if the F-16 was justified in bombing the people on the ground. Marg's opinion is that the U.S. doesn't care about the people, just the oil so they didn't flinch in bombing "innocents" on the ground. Thought I do dispute that they were innocent. Cool Hand even pointed out that this video has been analyzed to death, so it's natural for the topic to wander a bit.

Would we bomb a group of people standing by an oil well? No! It might damage the U.S. economy,but people running down an open street are fair game. The oil does appear to have more worth than the population of Iraq, but the goon squad got was was coming to them when they decided to fight U.S. forces. Right? They should have just rolled over and let the U.S. do whatever they wished with their country. I doubt we would act any differently if another country invaded ours. Are they terrorist? This is still being disputed, but the F-16 pilot didn't commit a crime by bombing them. That's what happens in war.

Originally posted by FredT

Where is the mighty UN? Why should Sudan be left to the US?

*coughcough*

Who, might I ask, is the head of the UN Security Council, which I do believe orders peacekeeping missions? And do they not have veto power?

It's the US. The UN can't do anything if the American's don't okay it first. The US chose the position, so it should shoulder the responsibility, no?

DE

Originally posted by cargo
I think you should be careful who you call "Anti-US". If i'm not mistaken, Marg's family is full of decorated American military serving patriots. She has every right to be "Anti-Bush" and she has every right to be "Anti-War", but to label her "Anti-US" when she has clearly stated her families commitment to defending America, the country she calls home, I find to be disgusting.

Wow, now you are also particpating in going off of the thread of this post.

Marg has shown all of those traits in the past. I challenge you, or anyone else, to prove me wrong.

While Marg should openly come down on you like a ton of bricks, I don't believe it's in her nature. I could be wrong, and you may find out one day if you continue to fling insults of that magnitude.

Come down on me for what? Having an opinion?

So are you saying that it is alright to have an opinion so long as it doesn't offend anyone?

[edit on 7/10/04 by COOL HAND]

I am very proud of my family background but this is the present and the Iraqi war is our war, and the war on terror is our war, I am against the bush war and they way he has gotten US our nation into believing that what we are fighting is justified, thanks for the support cargo, but every time some news comes that civilians are dying in Iraq when we are suppose to be liberators worry me, this is my nation and I don't like when in our name our leaders make the wrong choices our leader are not targeted we the people are.

You can fall flat on your butts finding a justification of the death of civilians and our troops but is still the same thing we are fighting for oil control and that is the truth. The anti-American calling does not bother me at all, I think I am more patriotic than any of these people that call me anti-American, and anti bush, because I care about my nation and his standing in the eyes of the rest of the world.

See the truth about MWDs is coming out and the truth about the oil will be out too.
I agree with you dbates also.

FALLUJAH: US forces launched an air strike on Saturday on what they said was a safe house linked to elusive Al Qaeda operative Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in the Iraqi city of Fallujah, killing 22 people in a �precision strike.�

US military officers said there was no sign Zarqawi himself � who has a $10 million price on his head � was in the house when it was destroyed. .

Furious Iraqis said the dead included women and children.

Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said in Baghdad the house was being used by fighters loyal to Zarqawi, accused by Washington of leading a bloody campaign of suicide bombings and of decapitating a US hostage last month.

�We have significant evidence that there were members of the Zarqawi network in the house,� Kimmitt said.

�Today coalition forces conducted a strike on a known Zarqawi safe house in southwest Fallujah based on multiple confirmations of actionable intelligence.�

Traumatised residents of Fallujah seemed too busy counting their dead to follow the winners and losers in the war on Zarqawi and other Muslim militant leaders bent on driving the United States out of the Middle East.

They said two missiles had been fired at the house by a US plane on Saturday morning, flattening the building. Kimmitt said the US strike had caused secondary blasts as ammunition inside the house exploded.

- dailytimes.com.pk







AN AMERICAN F-16 jet fired missiles into a residential area in the flashpoint Sunni city of Fallujah yesterday, killing at least 22 members of one extended family.

A US spokesman said the aircraft had been targeting a safe house belonging to the terrorist network run by Abu Musab al- Zarqawi, the Jordanian directing a suicide bombing campaign against coalition forces in the new Iraqi security organisations.

Brigadier-General Mark Kimmitt did not dispute Iraqi accounts that more than 20 people were killed in the attack, but said there was 'significant intelligence' that members of the network were in the house. He admitted there was no evidence Zarqawi was there.

One resident contacted by telephone by the Observer , who had been to the scene of the explosion in the poor Shouhadda area, in the south west of the city, said that at least 22 people had been killed.

Dr Fadhil al-Baddrani said the entire family of Mohammed Hamadi, a 65-year-old farmer, married with two wives, were killed. Among the dead where his wives and children. At least three women and five chil dren were among the dead. 'The whole family is gone,' said al-Baddrani. 'The blast was so powerful it blew them to pieces. We could only recognise the women by their long hair.'

- buzzle.com
- mg.co.za
- schema-root.org







It is a doubly worrying in Fallujah as coalition sources have privately admitted that the 'Iraqi-isation' of the problem there is close to failing. Among the first to condemn the US attack was the city's police chief. 'At 9:30 am, a US plane shot two missiles on this residential area,' said the police chief, Sabbar al-Janabi, 'Scores were killed and injured. This picture speaks for itself.'

At least two houses were destroyed and six others were damaged as slabs of concrete and steel reinforcing bars were up-ended and twisted skyward in the damage, Associated Press Television News footage showed.

Water poured from a six-metre crater in front of one of the destroyed house. One man displayed several copies of the Koran which were burnt in the strikes.

Outraged residents accused America of trying to inflict maximum damaged by firing two strikes - one first to attack and another to kill the rescuers.

'The number of casualties is so high because after the first missile we jumped to rescue the victims,' said Wissam ali- Hamad. 'The second missile killed those trying to carry out the rescue.'

- buzzle.com
- mg.co.za
- schema-root.org

[edit on 7-10-2004 by fanoose]

Top Iraqi security officials in the flashpoint town of Fallujah yesterday challenged US assertions that a house destroyed in a deadly air strike was used by al-Qaeda fighters.

The US military said Saturday's attack, which killed 22 Iraqis, was launched against a safe house for militants commanded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, described by the Americans as the top al-Qaeda operative in Iraq.

But Brigadier Nouri Aboud, a member of the Fallujah Brigade, which the US military has entrusted with imposing security in the city, 50 kilometres west of Baghdad, said there was no evidence to suggest the site was anything but the home of an extended Iraqi family.

"We inspected the damage, we looked through the bodies of the women and children and elderly. This was a family," he said.

"There is no sign of foreigners having lived in the house. Zarqawi and his men have no presence in Fallujah."

- theage.com.au
- deccanherald.com







Fallujah police chief Colonel Sadar al-Janabi criticised the US strike as a destabilising move.

"This was an attack on a family in a house and it killed all of them. There are no signs that people like Zarqawi were in the house or in Fallujah," he said. "This attack was conducted without any co-ordination with us."

- theage.com.au







Residents of Falluja said two missiles had been fired at the house by a US plane, flattening the building.

Gen Kimmitt said the US strike had caused secondary blasts as ammunition inside the house exploded.

�An American plane hit this house and three others were damaged. Only body parts are left,� a witness said, as rescuers dug through the rubble of the shattered house for survivors.

�They brought us 22 corpses, children, women and youth,� Ahmed Hassan, a cemetery worker, said after the blast.

- deccanherald.com







Outraged residents of a poor district of Falluja showed reporters rubble and twisted wreckage as evidence of Saturday morning's air raid.

Some accused the Americans of trying to inflict maximum damage by firing two missiles in succession.

"The number of casualties is so high because after the first missile we jumped to rescue the victims," Wissam Ali Hamad told AP news agency.

"The second missile killed those trying to carry out the rescue."

Residents said at least 20 bodies had been taken for burial.

- bbc.co.uk