Is this one of Saddam's mobile bio-weapons labs?

Originally posted by curme

Originally posted by edsinger
So there IS an explanation for this BUT, what are the odds? the left can whine all they want, but deep down you know what it was for......but you hate Bush so much that you would risk your country to fall in line with mooreism.

Can't... recognize... threat... to... my... country....

Hate... Bush... too.... much... arg....

Something like that?

Pretty much! It took some research to find why a caustic would be used, but it still doesnt make sense....I still believe it was exactly what it looks like

Looks like a duck...Smells like a duck......quacks like a duck........


But could be a Eagle....with a lisp..




Probably is a duck....

Ed, can you enlighten us as to how you know exactly what moblie weapons labs are supposed to look like? You say this thing, which is proven NOT to be a mobile weapons lab, looks like one...I want to see the pic of a real one that you obviously have access to.

Sensfan,

With all due respect, it hasn't actually been "proven" that those trucks weren't mobile bio- weapon production facilities. I'd have to search for it, but the original report that is used to "prove" they are not for bio-weapons production was by two European engineers who argued that it was probably or most likely (I can't remember the exact wording) what the Iraqi's said it was...a mobile plant to chemically produce hydrogen for artillery weather balloons. The only problem with that idea is that you can buy commercial mobile hydrogen generators that are much more cost effective. However that obviously doesn't prove the CIA's case either. It is at least plausible that Iraq wanted to build their own. Who knows? Maybe they built them to get their eagle scout badges.

For those who are interested, the official CIA page regarding this is at: The CIA's mobile weapons lab page

And here is a company who will gladly sell you transportable hydrogen gas generator: Proton Energy Sytems

BTW: Question of the day...Do you know the difference between an Iraqi Transportable Hydrogen Generator and a Mobile Bio-Weapons Lab?

Answer: The ingredients you put in it.

Food for thought. Maybe the WMD thing isn't as clear cut as either side would have you believe. The evidence points to the fact that this was INDEED a bio-weapons production unit. It fit's the pattern of Saddam keeping his ability to produce WMD's while not actually keeping stock piles around. However, this does NOT negate the left's argument that Saddam didn't have WMDs! Nor does it completely support the right's argument that he did. It's a push. Both sides are right and both are wrong. Besides, if ANY of you think that the invasion was decided strictly on WMDs then your ignoring ALL of the other mitigating factors. Both good and bad.

-Cypher

[edit on 16-12-2004 by Cypher]

Hmmm, no trace of any chemicals in it or any evidence that it made WMD.
You can't jump to conclusions simply because your mind is reaching for an excuse, any excuse.

No doubt, it was likely used at one time to make chemical weapons.

However, the lack of any traces of them in the trailer, means that one cannot use it to prove that Saddam was in violation.

We know he HAD chemical weapons...hell, we sold them to him, but the point to prove is that he still had them after he wasn't supposed to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he did, just as I am sure there are some buried in the desert, and that some went out to Syria, Jordan, and Iran.

But, this is NOT sufficient proof, and thus it's lack of media attention. He had about two months to get rid of any such weapons lying around. My bet is that he did so.

OK, Ed the mobile lab is for Chemical agents. Sarin and VX are pressure/temperature sensitive. Bio agents would need significantly different equipment.

This could have also have been used to prodcue many pesticides. I think that was the excuse they used. Th UN inspectors well that another rant................

Originally posted by edsinger

A trailer found by the U.S. in Northern Iraq last year likely was used by Saddam Hussein's regime as a mobile biological weapons laboratory, and not to fill hydrogen balloons as some in Britain and the U.S. have charged, a view supported by exclusive photos obtained by WorldNetDaily that for the first time offer inside views of the trailer components.

worldnetdaily.com...

Just can't accept reality, eh? Someone in the Army gave WorldNetDaily these photos! I hate to break it to you, but WND isn't exactly considered credible in credible circles.

Oh yeah, and even if it were what you so wish it to be, it was something the USA probably supplied Saddam with back in the day.

doesn't matter if they uncover underground nukes locked on the White House...the left will never believe any link to WMD's...its gotten so partisan that unless the dems had got in and found em - they won't even CONSIDER the possibility

the same way they believe that the war on terrorism can't be won, because Al Qaeda is operating in every country in the world...well, except Iraq

damn shame

I looked at the pics linked to by eds, then at the pic of the same unit linked by another author.

Am I the only one to notice that the mobile facility was freshly painted all over, between the two pics taken?

God knows what it's provenance was, but somebody tried hard to make it look fresh and ready to produce. Eager beaver.

No evidence whatsoever. The article is a shameful conjecture.

yup - no evidence whatsoever

lots of people like to keep their mobile pesticide or hydrogen labs concealed

I know I do

Originally posted by rayzor11
doesn't matter if they uncover underground nukes locked on the White House...the left will never believe any link to WMD's...its gotten so partisan that unless the dems had got in and found em - they won't even CONSIDER the possibility

Please see my post above yours. I am a Republican. I simply know BS when I see it. This has nothing to do with right or left.

Originally posted by rayzor11
doesn't matter if they uncover underground nukes locked on the White House...the left will never believe any link to WMD's...its gotten so partisan that unless the dems had got in and found em - they won't even CONSIDER the possibility

I take offence to that!
Frankly i believed the PM when he gave that speech before the war an supported him, when i found out they sexed up the report i just couldnt believe that they had! If they found weapons there then i would think , oh i made a mistake ,and then i would admit it. Now come on if its ok for you to generalise the political scale and think the "left" doesnt believe anything with out knowing that every person is diffrent then you shouldnt be here!

the same way they believe that the war on terrorism can't be won, because Al Qaeda is operating in every country in the world...well, except Iraq

So i take it if you think invadeing a country and bombing the utter crap outa them is the way to go then i better go and find me a nice cave to hide in, hell i might as well go to international waters. Safer with the sharks than with the US in town.

Originally posted by devilwasp


So i take it if you think invadeing a country and bombing the utter crap outa them is the way to go then i better go and find me a nice cave to hide in, hell i might as well go to international waters. Safer with the sharks than with the US in town.

Devilwasp, I hope you don't think the majority of Americans share this idiotic and RACIST mindset. Don't believe the hype. Bush stole the election b/c there's no way he could've won fairly. I have never in 35 years seen an election like the one we had in November. It was one of the most beautiful and heartening things I have ever witnessed. Citizens all across this great land stood in line for hours and hours to cast their votes. I have never seen our electorate more energized and ready to participate. (Since the warpedAsHell outcome, there has been a pall over this nation. We have been in shock and stunned by disbelief. Everything our eyes saw and told us, we are told, was wrong. Bush won! Move along! nothing to see here! BUSH DID NOT WIN! Just because the talking heads on tv and our fine print media tells you something, does NOT make it true! The majority of citizens in this country have no desire to crawl the earth in search of monsters to destroy. (Although most of us would do anything we had to to DEFEND our country, if need be.)

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Devilwasp, I hope you don't think the majority of Americans share this idiotic and RACIST mindset. Don't believe the hype. Bush stole the election b/c there's no way he could've won fairly. I have never in 35 years seen an election like the one we had in November. It was one of the most beautiful and heartening things I have ever witnessed. Citizens all across this great land stood in line for hours and hours to cast their votes. I have never seen our electorate more energized and ready to participate. (Since the warpedAsHell outcome, there has been a pall over this nation. We have been in shock and stunned by disbelief. Everything our eyes saw and told us, we are told, was wrong. Bush won! Move along! nothing to see here! BUSH DID NOT WIN! Just because the talking heads on tv and our fine print media tells you something, does NOT make it true! The majority of citizens in this country have no desire to crawl the earth in search of monsters to destroy. (Although most of us would do anything we had to to DEFEND our country, if need be.)

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

No i dont , i have been and visited america many a time and its a beatiful , tooo hot, but beatiful country.
I just despise the type of american that thinks it's ok to do what ever they want in the name of , "national security" , face it your country is never safe! No country is safe! Not mine not yours!

Ok anaylize this... Powels find before war......

newsimg.bbc.co.uk...[/img]

Todays find in this post





So, what do you all think?????????? Great find "sensfan"

[edit on 16-12-2004 by Justmytype]

O.k. Enough wondering where they are and who supplied them. Here is a declassified nsa document stating saddams chemical weapons programs were imported from the west.

www2.gwu.edu...

Also read this.

United States District Court (Florida: Southern District) Affidavit. "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. Carlos Cardoen [et al.]" [Charge that Teledyne Wah Chang Albany Illegally Provided a Proscribed Substance, Zirconium, to Cardoen Industries and to Iraq], January 31, 1995.

Former Reagan administration National Security Council staff member Howard Teicher says that after Ronald Reagan signed a national security decision directive calling for the U.S. to do whatever was necessary to prevent Iraq's defeat in the Iran-Iraq war, Director of Central Intelligence William Casey personally led efforts to ensure that Iraq had sufficient weapons, including cluster bombs, and that the U.S. provided Iraq with financial credits, intelligence, and strategic military advice. The CIA also provided Iraq, through third parties that included Israel and Egypt, with military hardware compatible with its Soviet-origin weaponry.

This affidavit was submitted in the course of one of a number of prosecutions, following Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, of U.S. companies charged with illegally delivering military, dual-use, or nuclear-related items to Iraq. (In this case, a Teledyne affiliate was charged will illegally selling zirconium, used in the manufacture of explosives, to the Chilean arms manufacturer Carlos Industries, which used the material to manufacture cluster bombs sold to Iraq.) Many of these firms tried to defend themselves by establishing that providing military materiel to Iraq had been the actual, if covert, policy of the U.S. government. This was a difficult case to make, especially considering the rules of evidence governing investigations involving national security matters.

www2.gwu.edu...


It's no big secret really. Just click on my link below in my signature. Read some of these declassified document links in the report and you will learn some interesting information. The truth is in front of our faces to be found you just gotta look.

And come on. Like they said at the end of the news story. Why would you have a mobile lab unless it was for something illegitimate. Gee lets make hydrogen on the spot. I don't think so. Just don't make any sense. It was a weapons lab.

Originally posted by Hoppinmad1


And come on. Like they said at the end of the news story. Why would you have a mobile lab unless it was for something illegitimate. Gee lets make hydrogen on the spot. I don't think so. Just don't make any sense. It was a weapons lab.

Is this any evidence of an labs? Yes .
Any evidence of a lab for chemical weapons purposes? No.

Show me one bit on that lab that says chemical warfare, the things to create chemical weapons can be baught from a simply super market or on ebay.

Why would you have a mobile lab? So you can conduct things in the field not just in a lab. This is in the right direction for WMD to be found but not solid proof, its like showing germany in ww2 had gas but there was no proof they done anything like the death camps until they invaded.

Devilwasp,

To say that these trucks don�t indicate a mobile weapons capability doesn�t take into account all of the other evidence presented.

The fact is that the intelligence that Colin Powell presented to the U.N. was gained from multiple sources, including an Iraqi defector who told them outright that the trucks were mobile bio-weapons production facilities. Later when the US and allies invaded Iraq, they did indeed find trucks that were configured almost exactly as their source had informed them they were.

Okay, granted the source may have been mistaken or even lying about what the trucks purpose was. So let�s look at what the Iraqi�s said they were for�

Again, the former Iraqi government, the same government who lied time and after time about their WMD capabilities and missile technologies after the 1991 Gulf War, stated that the trucks were used to generate hydrogen for artillery weather balloons. However, as I showed in a previous post, commercial grade transportable Hydrogen production units are commercially available, and are much more efficient. There would have been no need for Iraq to produce their own

Secondly, the equipment was manufactured in 2002, and was of such a nature that the Iraqi�s were required to report it to the UN under the Security Council Resolutions. It was not. If it was not intended for bio-weapons manufacturing, what reason would the Iraqi�s have for denying its existence?

I�m not saying this proves that Iraq had WMDs at the time of the invasion. Although the amount of circumstantial evidence indicates that Saddam intended on at least keeping his ability to make them at a later date. Now whether or not that justifies the invasion�well that debate is for another time and another thread.

-Cypher

It looks as though it could be an industrial washing machine.

didnt read the whole thead, but after how long we find something that is moblie, outside, and in the open. Ahhhh smells like grade a CIA BS. Getting quite used to that smell latly