The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

Originally posted by ultimatefighter2014

Originally posted by TheTardis

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Really?

So I guess since the American colonist couldn't fix thier home countries...they shouldn't have come to invade the Americas.

That is really one of the dumbest arguments in this whole immigration debate.

Ok.. So you think people fled England because it was a crappy place to live? They came here mostly for religious freedom and because there was a chance at a different kind of life. I dont think they came here because there were jobs they could do cheap and send money back to England. Not even remotely the same thing.

I'd quit now if i were you, your ignorance is showing.
Europe today wasnt the same as it was in the 1500's/16/17 etc, it was actually in a pretty bad state, worse than mexico, people didnt move because soley for religous freedom, but for the higher standards of living in the us.
Plus here in the UK, even today, costs of things are way to high, living standards are meh, taxed to death prettty much.

Yeah might want to take your own advice there buddy, there wasnt really a "standard" of living here in America in the 1500s, might wana go ahead and check out the timeline of settlement here in the Americas....

Yes they did move here for exactly what the poster you replied to said they did .....

I can promise you the standards of living as far as resources and ability to acquire goods was considerably better in Europe at the time......

They didnt come here because it was easier.......where do you people come up with your history?

Wow.....talk about people trying to espouse their intelligence on a subject while having none......

Redneck had the best response. It stands on its own. Great job! That said, this is ATS people. There is a REASON the Feds do NOT enforce illegal immigration. The question Americans...especially ATS'ers should be asking is: Why?
Why?
Money?
Votes?
How about something bigger? Remember the attempt AT THE NORTH AMERICAN UNION? Well, it failed.

So, why?

Because North America will be one of 10 Nation States and it all starts this year! The signs are all around and if you haven't woken up to whats coming, its going to grab you by the balls. You still have a short time to prepare. I suggest you take advantage of the remaining weeks you have!!!

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

Some American citizens fear competition from immigrants because they know the immigrants will win hands down in the job market.

Actually, while I think about it, even your central point does not have much merit if meant as a pro-immigration argument. If the immigrants should win in the job market, it will mean lower wages and higher unemployment for American citizens, and thus it makes sense to be against it.

Only in case when there is a shortage of labor on the market (which means low unemployment and high wages in a certain sector), I agree that immigration of such workers is largely positive.

I appreciate all the replies from everyone, and I am going to respond to each one directed to me, but I won't be online again until tonight. I think I'm up to page 15 on replies...so I'm a bit behind.

If nothing else...I think it has been a good discussion and shows that something does need to be done about the entire situation. This isn't an abstract problem...this is a people problem...a problem that involves families and children.

And yes, this thread was partly in response to Obama's new policy, which I think is an excellent direction to move. It is actually the only way to move because it is the only logical way to solve the problem. We aren't going to deport everyone or lock down the border, those are goals that can't be accomplished...so we will have to approach the problem from a different way...and that is by acceptance and openness.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

So I'm all for LEGAL immigration.. But ILLEGAL immigration is a tax on the economy and should be stopped, if at all possible. I firmly believe it's allowed to continue to generate revenue for for-profit, private prison systems.. We don't send illegal immigrants back to Mexico, we put them in prisons where they cost the US taxpayer more than they ever would have using healthcare and education.

I, and I'm sure many others, agree 100% with this statement, however to people like the OP this could not possibly be a legitimate stance; there MUST be a racist motive behind this, because as you know liberals were endowed with the ability to read minds. I'm really sick and tired of people trying to make me feel guilty for wanting sensible immigration laws to be enforced.

reply to post by TheRedneck


It's clear that many people claiming they know what they are talking about, have never stepped foot onto a build site, let alone worked at any. Most of the work is done on a subcontracting basis. Usually on the sites I worked at, there was the builder and an architect. The people that did the framing were actually employees of the building company, everything else was subcontracted out. We give an estimate, get a job, do a job, then get a check. We had to keep our own books, and pay our own taxes. We had a fat smelly prick from the IRS come to our house at least once a year to audit our books.

Originally posted by Indigo5

I don't think anyone has contested that they are here illegally? That was conceded in the headline of the OP. Funny that word thus becomes the fallback position.

So, they are here illegally, but it is not as bad as other crimes?
No wonder our society is going down the toilet.
Can you say selective enforcement of laws much?

Originally posted by Indigo5
As for your second contention of their presence being no different than "the guy that robs someone for an income" ....I see no factual basis for the comparison.

Selective enforcement again.
A crime has been committed. it is not the responsibility of ANY US citizen to carry the burden of ILLEGALS.
The man that robs a bank, for an income to provide for his family is still a crime. And once caught, the possessions are taken, the man punished and the family carries the burden of his action. Not the neighbor, not the tax payer not the community.
By being here ILLEGALLY, a crime is actively being committed.

Originally posted by Indigo5
Is the person exceeding the speed-limit the same as "the guy that robs someone for money"?

...If so...How?

Still breaking the law.

Originally posted by Indigo5
Because every actual economic/financial analysis I have seen clearly shows that their presense is good for local and national economies. Illegal immigrants simply supply labor in the margins of domestic labor demand where domestic workers will not occupy and the government has interfered with free-market labor supply and demand with politically driven restrictions on legal immigration.

So "rob someone for money" seems a completely disconnected analogy in the context of evidence and actual analysis. They benefit the economy.

Yep, nothing like cheap labor for companies, and the AMERICAN citizen undercut in the job market.

But if illegals are taking jobs, that is breaking the law, so it does have to do with their illegal status. Maybe the illegals are the ones who think they are entitled.

You have to like the prison business model whether your legal or illegal.
Thar's GOLD in them thar holding cells!
money.cnn.com...

I say, at least hold them for a few weeks and rack up some profits!


It's the American way right?

THEN send them home.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Yes...a bit different...but not to those that want to continue demonizing them so you have a reason to hate them.

It is always different for Liberals.
I gotta say, that your Saul Alinsky tactics throughout this thread is pretty good.
Define the terms, control the language, deem people that disagree as "Haters" and so on.
I hate people that break the law, and then turn around crying because they got caught.
I hate people that make excuses for those people.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
But what is your real reason to hate someone who is looking for a better life for themselves and their family???

Because they are breaking the law and being rewarded for their actions.
And on top of that, they are rewarded over those doing it the right way.

I bet you don't mind people cutting in lines, so long as they have a sob story and you let your emotional heart run your critical thinking.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher




Fortunately...yes...they can stay here legally...because our current President isn't a heartless bastard like some are who would deport them to a country they don't even know.

I'm sensing a lot of entitlement thinking on your part...shame on you.

No, not heartless. Unconstitutional.
And now those that oppose the circumventing of the Laws are now "Bastards".

You stay classy Outkast.

And what entitlement?

Again, Alinsky strikes, but misses the target.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I have to tell you, I live in a community that is full of migrant workers (due to the strawberry fields).

I have no "hate" for them. Indeed, I recognize the economic necessity they fulfill, etc. For the most part, these workers take jobs that most American citizens would not do, so regardless of the pay level, I don't really see them taking jobs away from Americans.

What I do HATE is when in public, they start yammering in a different language. If I were to go live in a country where English wasn't the official language, I'd a) learn the language, and b) use it in public (if for nothing else than the practice). To me, it's just rude otherwise, the equivalent of whispering behind someone's back.

It's not that I don't know what they're saying. I know enough Spanish to get by. I just consider it to be rude.

To those who decry the jobs, etc. though, really dig in and do the research, and you may change your mind. I know I did. I would have previously been one of the first ones calling for a wall between the US and Mexico, with automated machine gun turrets...but there are some very valid economic reasons we kind of turn a blind eye to it once they're here.

Sounds like the posting of a redneck,most illegal immigrants stay under the radar,they don't want to be subject to deportation,the majority if you bothered to read statistics,are whites and blacks,another racist rant as far as I'm concerned

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


sorry man but your way way way off. thats not the case AT ALL. I can tell you dont live here in the states. and if you do its under some rock someplace. has very little to do with competitions for jobs. has everything to do with them braking the law and getting away with it. and in alot of cases being rewarded for doing so.. we have had alot of people coming here and killing people and robbing people only to see them eather deported back to there home with no punishment or totally let off the hook. now let me ask you this. If say im not sure where your from but say you live in spain and some people came over from Algeria and killed your wife/brother mother/dad you would expect that person to be brought to justice but instead sense they are allowed to brake the laws and not follow any of your laws next week the person that killed your wife is walking around bragging how he snuffed some biotch in your country. and works his way back in with in days
Now if you cant understand that then your to young to even get a clue

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by TheTardis

 

Entering the country illegally is misdemeanor.

The United States used to stand for the Land of Opportunity where anyone could come for a chance at a better life....now it seems like it is filled with entitled brats who's parents took advantage of that and they don't want other immigrants ruining their chances at an easy life.

Entering the country illegally is a FELONY Idiot.. We have I have proven this to you and so have others. Why do you continue to lie? Its a flat out blatant lie that you keep telling and you just keep on going with it. Its been proven. I have shown you the law in its entirety. You now have ZERO credibility. You are knowingly just flat out lying to try and prove your point and its ridiculous. You are hoping that not everyone here read the other thread where we established this lie. Its not a misdemeanor. IT IS A FELONY. A FEDERAL OFFENSE.

And please stop spewing the same crap. People can come here for a better life but they need to do it legally. We dont have unlimited resources or space. We have always had a immigration process. Even back when we stood for the Land of Opportunity. What do you think Ellis Island was all about? Grow up and stop being so naive.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Anyone who thinks the US and its citizens, or any country for that matter, doesn't have the right to keep people out is a hypocrite.

Do you live in a house? Well then how dare you have a door and keep people out of your house. Everyone should be welcome, especially if they are hard workers, right.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by TheTardis

 

You know damn well that isnt what I am saying so stop being a child and putting words in my mouth

I'm not putting words in your mouth...you are afraid of the boogeyman...any unknown immigrant could potentially be a rapist murder who is carrying the plague...we should just keep them all out

It worked for our ancestors and had worked for years before the influx in illegals from the south.

Yes...let's go back to the system of our ancestors...come to the country...sign your name....enter the country. I'm fine with that...thanks for suggesting it.

Maybe they need to work on their own economy and it will be more lucrative for people to stay there but as it is we cant keep this free for all going. It is only hurting our country.

Those damn American colonist...morons who just ran away from their problems.

Again. No credibility. You have been arguing that we should let the illegals just live in peace. And now you say its ok to make them sign their name before coming in. That is the hole point. You are as wishy washy as a politition. A nd now your going to call the Colonists that founded our country Morons? Dude.. I am starting to think you are not even American. You are a total moron yourself sir. Period.

Originally posted by TheTardis


Again. No credibility. You have been arguing that we should let the illegals just live in peace. And now you say its ok to make them sign their name before coming in. That is the hole point. You are as wishy washy as a politition. A nd now your going to call the Colonists that founded our country Morons? Dude.. I am starting to think you are not even American. You are a total moron yourself sir. Period.

Or a paid blogger/poster by the Current Administration.

Originally posted by Grambler
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Anyone who thinks the US and its citizens, or any country for that matter, doesn't have the right to keep people out is a hypocrite.

Do you live in a house? Well then how dare you have a door and keep people out of your house. Everyone should be welcome, especially if they are hard workers, right.

Well played Sir, bravo.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by TheTardis

 

Nope.. Try again. Read back a few pages. We already established that most of them work as a self employed contractor and do not get taxes and other with holdings taken out. And another large portion of them just get paid cash under the table.

No...no..."we" didn't establish anything.

You made a bunch of stuff up with no proof...but nothing was "established".

Really? And what have you proved? You want me to prove something with facts? Try that yourself. Or respond to at least one or two questions that have been posed to you. You have avoided nearly every question posed to you so yes. This has been proven in my book.