New Boeing comercial shows Hypersoar aircraft!

Originally posted by mwm1331
Sminkey thats what I love about you europeans, always msing the point by a mile.

- well if I may mwm1331 I'd say that's what you have just done.

Who cares who came up with it first? Who cares who did the basic resaearch? We are actually building one, is europe?

- My point was the flat denial that anyone else could have come up with the idea(s) or actually made 'xyz' or used it.

Its a lot like when america, germany, and the U.K. were all trying to be the first to break the sound barrier.
Germany had the idea first.
The the U.K. tried
America entered the race next to last
The USSR entered the race last.

The U.K. had all the design elements, and in fact could have been the first.

- This is true.

But your country lacked the political will to keep both supersonic projects going and ironically the one you guys canceled, we now know would have been the best choice to continue.

- No, this is not IMO why the project was cancelled.

You have to understand the times. The then UK gov did not want to be risking lives under orders from them. Just post WW2 there had been enough lives lost in that manner by then and they could see no reason (never mind need) for anymore losses particularly as the program at that point had claimed prominent lives. It may seem strange to us but there you are. They didn't see the justification in something they thought so dangerous. That IMO is as reasonable explaination as any for what happened.

America got you guys to give us your research and then we used it to beat you to the punch. Immoral? Maybe.

- I disagree. I don't think it's immoral at all.

What I do find objectionable is any denial that others were there too, whether or not they actually got noted as the first. (and as the example of Edison shows, clearly the popularly recorded 'history' need not actually be the correct one.)

But the first man to fly a supersonic plane was Chuck Yeager, not some pasty faced stiff upper lipper.
In the end it doesn't matter who thinks of it first, or who designs it first, all that matters is who builds it first and who uses it first.

- Well, ok, on a superficial level I'd say this is probably so. But I don't think it contradicts what I'm saying here either.

Are we interested in the whole story or just the 'pop' version?

I prefer the most complete and accurate histories myself.

Who gives a damn, most americans are of european origin anyway.

AMM why did you even post that America invented the combustion engine, telephone, internet, computers etc...

That's just asking for a slap in the face as to how ignorant you are. I'm sure other Americans on this site wouldn't be as stupid to claim that

On The Internal combustion engine, it was actually a French engineer called Alphonse Beau de Rochas who invented the principle of the 4-step combustion engine. Later Otto build his engine using this principle

In this engine, a fuel-air mix is introduced in the engine and the explosion of this mixture pushes directly on the piston. There is no need for an intermediate step like boiling water. A few years later, in 1876, the German Nikolaus August Otto built the first engine based on Beau de Rochas' principle

Who gives a damn, most Americans are of european origin anyway

... I know, quite sad really, it must be the hot weather that made them dumb

...only kiddin guys

[edit on 6-10-2004 by Snoopdopey]

SminkeyPinkey
Clearly this was way ahead of Germany's actual capabilities at the time but nevertheless the concept originated there and there was serious work done on the idea. Given time who knows what they might have done with it?

WHAT!!!!
Your trying to take credit for a concept, thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard, its just a concept, no real working model.

And America did create the first plane ever. Ever heard of the Wright Brothers?


and things that weren't first created in america, america made it better and affordable for all.
Like the model T


We took the computer that filed a room and shrunk it to what your using now, we were the first to make a true personal pc.


If America has some plans and draws some pictures on a anti-gravity plane then sells them all to Europe and 20 years later Europe has the first ever anti-gravity plane, then are you saying that America should take credit for that since it was there concept?

America did not create the first Plane ever, but it's known in common history that they made the first powered flight.

However if you wanna get picky, it was actually a british inventor who was the first to fly, granted it was guided by a wire for stability, but it was the first powered airplane flight and witnessed by a large crowd.

www.ba-education.demon.co.uk...

And if you say, oh it was on a wire, then i will say the wright brothers had to use a catapult to get their's off the ground, which techinically isn't independently powered then either.

The first proper powered flight was apparently in 1906 by a brazilian in france, who flew with no aids what so ever. (but you guys dont like the french )

[edit on 6-10-2004 by Snoopdopey]

Originally posted by vorazechul

Originally posted by American Mad Man
it would most likely be stealthy,

!!!!!!@%#%&^%# WHAT???

stealthy at hipersonic speed are you crazy
The air infront of the Airplane will ionise only because of the heat unlished from the friction and it will....that no one can catch is obvius

Yeah, it's IR signature would be huge.
Also other problem with powerfull engines is exhaust plume:

Although most news reports characterize the SR-71 aircraft as `radar evading', in point of fact, however, the SR-71 was one of the largest radar targets ever detected on the FAA's long-range radars. The FAA was able to track it at ranges of several hundred miles. The explanation offered was that the radars were detecting the exhaust plume.
www.globalsecurity.org...

"History is a set of lies agreed upon."
-Napoleon Bonaparte

Originally posted by Snoopdopey
America did not create the first Plane ever, but it's known in common history that they made the first powered flight.

However if you wanna get picky, it was actually a british inventor who was the first to fly, granted it was guided by a wire for stability, but it was the first powered airplane flight and witnessed by a large crowd.

www.ba-education.demon.co.uk...

And if you say, oh it was on a wire, then i will say the wright brothers had to use a catapult to get their's off the ground, which techinically isn't independently powered then either.

The first proper powered flight was apparently in 1906 by a brazilian in france, who flew with no aids what so ever. (but you guys dont like the french

)

[edit on 6-10-2004 by Snoopdopey]

Nice try, but I know my History

In 1903 they did not use a catapult, they made that in 1904, If they would have had wheels on there craft then they wouldn't of needed it, but they prefered the catapult so there wasn't the possibility that the wheels would get stuck in the ground and make the plane go head over heels.

The Wright Flyer was NOT the first plane, if we are denying ignorance here shall we start at the beginning and dump this fallacy?

What it represented was the first sustained, controlled manned powered flight, which is extremely significant, but also quite specifically NOT the first plane to fly.

Isn't it also a given that before someone makes something someone has to have thought of it? Given that, the whole "it doesn't matter who thought of it" argument is defeated.

The real reason that America has a lead in, shall we say 'actual tech' rather than 'conceptual tech' is because over the last few years America has become so paranoid about the 'war on terror' (C) Fox news, and become so self important with their sudden position as the 'only superpower' after the fall of the USSR , that they are willing to throw HUGE amounts of money into this research that other nations cannot or will not afford. Thats it, cash. Americans are'nt cleverer than the rest of the world they only have more cash.

But the cash wont last for long the way its being spent these days, then what happens?

Originally posted by Murcielago
WHAT!!!!
Your trying to take credit for a concept, thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard, its just a concept, no real working model.

- Well, let's just say there are concepts and there are concepts.

If shooting the breeze and making baseless theories is your idea of a 'concept' then I'd have to agree that that would carry little weight with anybody.

But if ones' idea of a concept is to be either the first or among the first to propose a genuinely new idea and support this with math and physics backing the 'concept' - a 'concept' later proven by the reality of actual events as correct and workable - I'd say this is an altogether different thing.

Agree or disagree if you like but I would say it is plain that one example of 'concept' far outweighs the other in terms of having credibility.....but your call if that is really the "dumbest thing you ever heard". Feel free.

As for the rest of your comments I refer you back to my comments regarding a complete history being far far superior to a 'pop' version.

I just love to hate threads like this. So many people beating thier chests and singing "Glory halleluia for my country!" (Or geo-political region, if you prefer) What utter crap.

ALL current tech is based on previous tech. Period. If you were to go far enough back along any research track, we could say any weapon, airplane, or vehicle should really be claimed by Africa since that is where man first learned to use sticks and bones as weapons and tools. And that's what we're talking about here isn't it? Weapons and tools. Computers? Well, wasn't the first computational machine the abacus? Invented in China I think.

Lets drop the me, mine, and us bull. No one one ATS has any right to claim the accomplishments of the people who develop new systems or machines. Only the people who actually DO THE WORK have a right to claim anything.
What have any of us here done to give us the right to lay claim to this technology?

Lets discuss the event this thread was started to talk about. Was the commercial showing the Hypersoar, or the X-43? And is Boeing building it, or is it still a pipe-dream?

*Steps off soap box*

This is waste of time, let's be simple : name 1 inovative miilitary aircraft produced in Europe after WW2. There is only one - Harrier. Everthing else came from US and Russia.

Yes, we did stray way off topic but I was having fun anyway. Also I disagree with your last statement Longbow but I wont go into detail as I consider myself told off

Oh go on then, as you say name one I will; Avro Vulcan.

[edit on 6-10-2004 by waynos]

Originally posted by stumason

Riiiiiiiiiight. I'd say you are benefiting from our computer, our internet to talk to me, our combustion engine, our telephone, our plane, ourlightbulbs ect ect ect ect ect ect ect.

1st computer was not American.

The first personal computer was invented by Edmund C. Berkely (educated at Harvard) in 1955 using electric rotary switches. He also designed the first desktop using anolog tubes which was introduced in 1959.

That is what we are using today - desktop computers and personal computers - not the ones that took up entire rooms like the ones first invented. My point - America makes technology usable and practical.

Internet was/is not American.

Try again
Internet Time Line
Notice how everyone is at MIT, and most of the funding is done by the DoD.

Combustion engine is not American

Fair enough - I was thinking of the automobile, obviously the most important aplication of it.

Planes where not american, in fact they could well be Italian. Just no one paid much attention to a smart arse old git who liked drawing stuff.

You're reaching now. Ever heard of the Wright brothers? They made the first aircraft, end of story.

Perhaps you may wish to revise your posts and claim tech that America has invented before attacking sminkey and the rest of us (fortunate) non-US citizens.

Naaaa - I'll just keep telling it like it is, that the US is the most powerfull, most resourcefull, richest, and most important nation in the world. It also has more contribution to modern society then any other country. And BTW, I am not attacking you unfortunate non Americans, if you read the posts Sminkey started this, so if you want to bitch at someone, do it to him.

Anyway, back on topic, Sminkey has a point, this is just fancy graphics and showmanship, anyone actually got a real picture or some worthwhile info, or are we gonna cream ourselves over some CG image of a black paperweight?

HyperSoar - skipping on the atmosphere

HyperSoar - Global Range Recce/Strike Aircraft

HyperSoar - Travel anywhere in the world (or to space) in under 2 hours

Is that enough info for you? You see, while everyone else gives up on ideas, the US makes them happen. This space plane will be a reality, and only because of the US. The UK can't do it, China can't do it, Russia can't do it (because of money), France can't do it, Germany can't do it ect ect ect.

Get real, the US dominates the Aerospace industry, as you can tell, we are the only country with stealth aircraft, the only country that has sent a man to the moon, we have the flight speed record - and that is with an aircraft designed in the early 60's. Most likely we have an aircraft such as the Aurora that has shattered those records and we don't even know about it.

Welcome to the real world - have a nice stay.

Originally posted by Montana
I just love to hate threads like this. So many people beating thier chests and singing "Glory halleluia for my country!" (Or geo-political region, if you prefer) What utter crap.

I find it entertaining - if you don't like it check out another thread.

ALL current tech is based on previous tech. Period. If you were to go far enough back along any research track, we could say any weapon, airplane, or vehicle should really be claimed by Africa since that is where man first learned to use sticks and bones as weapons and tools. And that's what we're talking about here isn't it? Weapons and tools. Computers? Well, wasn't the first computational machine the abacus? Invented in China I think.

Fair enough - but that isn't practical for this discussion now is it?

Lets drop the me, mine, and us bull. No one one ATS has any right to claim the accomplishments of the people who develop new systems or machines. Only the people who actually DO THE WORK have a right to claim anything.
What have any of us here done to give us the right to lay claim to this technology?

As long as tax money is going to the developement, taxpayers have every right to claim it as theirs, as they are the ones that made it happen.

Lets discuss the event this thread was started to talk about. Was the commercial showing the Hypersoar, or the X-43? And is Boeing building it, or is it still a pipe-dream?

*Steps off soap box*

Yes shall we?

The comercial shows the X-43 apparently, as IntelGurl said. The thing to keep in mind is that the X-43 was a technology demonstrator. Now, the question is where will that technology be implemented?

My guess is some type of recce aircraft, and as the technology matures it will make it's way into a space plane. The logical space plane would be the HyperSoar.

Could we please stop wit the whose country is better than the other. This is the aircraft forum not the debate forum. If you would like to argue go to the debate forum, other wise park it when you post.

Internet was/is not American.

I thought Al Gore told us he invented the internet

Hypersoar sounds pretty logical, who knows what the government has created. BTW i think so much has been created by US if you guys are stil arguing about US not doing anything by itself. We created computers, powered aircraft, electricity, assebly lines, among many other things.

intelgurl basically ended this disscuswion before it started, but then sminkey started talkin # about who created what.

BTW, yes I meant powered flight, but it doesn't sound as good as the first plane ever. I dont call a glider a plane.

Clement Aders Avion III (yes, he tried twice before) was powered and flew in the 1890's.

There were no flight controls and the pilot was only aboard for the ride but it was powered manned flight, that is why the Wrights achievement is so specific as I pointed out.

AMM, you are doing exactly what I said and changing tack to suit your point. First it was 'first computer' then it becomes (when you are wrong) first home desktop computer. You can win any argument with this method, I've used it myself

EDIT, I made a mistake! The Avion came later, it was the Eole that was the first powered aircraft to get up off the ground under its own power, in October 1890, here's a link.

www.pilotfriend.com...

[edit on 6-10-2004 by waynos]

Bugger, I must have an American computer

[edit on 6-10-2004 by waynos]