Big Brother gains strength as PRE-CRIME cameras are deployed to San Francisco.

For those of you that do not believe that we already live in a police state, here's further evidence to the contrary. I want to know how the software developers for this type of equipment are able to sleep at night?

New surveillance cameras will use computer eyes to find 'pre crimes' by detecting suspicious behaviour and calling for guards

A new generation of computerized 'Big Brother’ cameras are able to spot if you are a terrorist or a criminal - before you even commit a crime.

The devices are installed in places like train stations or public buildings where they scan passers by to see if they are acting suspiciously.

Using a range of in-built parameters of what is ‘normal’ the cameras then send a text message to a human guard to issue an alert - or call them.

• Computerized detectors look for 'abnormal' behavior
• When suspicious individuals are seen, guards called
• BRS machines have been trialled in numerous locations
• 288 cameras to be installed on subway in San Francisco

Article Source

Not good... not good at all.

So if this system is designed to report on 'suspicious' behavior and actions, what is to stop it from reporting on someone who is mentally disabled but doing no harm to anyone else?

Or someone with some other type of disability that does not look 'normal' to sensors?

Additionally, what if it reports on someone who is sweating profusely for no other reason than the temperature, or children playing and acting like dinosaurs or robots?


Terrible, horrible idea. Poor San Francisco...

Originally posted by Dreine
Not good... not good at all.

So if this system is designed to report on 'suspicious' behavior and actions, what is to stop it from reporting on someone who is mentally disabled but doing no harm to anyone else?

Or someone with some other type of disability that does not look 'normal' to sensors?

Additionally, what if it reports on someone who is sweating profusely for no other reason than the temperature, or children playing and acting like dinosaurs or robots?

All excellent points.

Police officers are trained to be "on guard" when responding to "threats". We have seen over and over again in recent years, police officers beating, tazing and even killing mentally disabled people because they didn't understand the condition.

Originally posted by freakjive

New surveillance cameras will use computer eyes to find 'pre crimes' by detecting suspicious behaviour and calling for guards

They dont give any specific examples in that article, but 10 or 15 years ago I read about two possibilities.

1. Suicides.
Normal passengers arrive at a platform and then get on the train. Maybe the next train after, because they were a bit early. Apparently suicides stay for quite a long time before doing the final act, often walking to the extreme platform edge just as trains arrive, before going back to the rear of the crowd to sit down again.

2. Theft from cars.
At a shopping mall, the overwhelming vast majority of people walk from the car to the entry/exit, or from the entry/exit to their car. Thieves walk up and down the rows of cars, a lot, going no particular place but looking for a suitable target.

The technology didnt exist then, but if it does now, at least those two specific examples I'd be quite happy with.

reply to post by alfa1


You raise a good point as well. These are some of the likely scenarios that these types of systems are meant to capture. I can see the "good use" of this, but I do not think it justifies the means.

Again, we could have a confused person who cannot remember where they parked their car.

I fear the response of the officers based on suspecting suspicious behavior. All too often, it's act first, think later.

reply to post by alfa1
Then you have set the price of your liberty at such a minor level of security. IMO, you deserve your chains.

What we need is a way to deliver a crippling virus to these computers via an optically read code. Like a design printed on the back of a jacket that is like a QR code containing a virus to shut these things down. I wish I were capable of designing such a virus.

I could have so much fun with this.

I wonder how long it will take for them to set up a scenario so as to "prove" the technology actually works.

I think I am going to go act suspicious now.

Originally posted by freakjive
reply to post by alfa1

 

These are some of the likely scenarios that these types of systems are meant to capture. I can see the "good use" of this, but I do not think it justifies the means.

This is the whole point. The ends do not justify the means. Why can we use "privacy" to justify the wholesale slaughter of millions of infants, but to dare to desire actual privacy as we go about our daily lives is unacceptable?

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by alfa1

 

What we need is a way to deliver a crippling virus to these computers via an optically read code. Like a design printed on the back of a jacket that is like a QR code containing a virus to shut these things down. I wish I were capable of designing such a virus.

Better yet, take the cameras out. Shoot them with a bb gun. Climb up the pole and rip them off. Knock the pole down. Arrange lasers to point directly into the camera lenses. A little civil disobedience would fix this real quick.

reply to post by DarthMuerte

LOL Someone in some Eastern Block country did just that, they replaced their car registration plate (if memory serves) with one they had made themselves. I forget exactly the text they used but it was "database talk" for "remove this entry now". I have no idea if it worked though.




ETA Found it.

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver


Pretty cool..
Although, not sure it would work without actually knowing the structure of the database.

This system should be easy to disable until it is self-protective and weaponized.

I believe we have something called the Americans with Disabilities act that nullifies the whole concept.

Willfully discriminating against the disabled is a serious crime.

reply to post by freakjive


Hmmm, interesting post, freak jive. HOPEFULLY the security guards / LEO,s who are summoned to deal with the " Dodgy " character first identified by the software, will operate in a far more discriminating mode than the software could possibly be capable of !

They will of course be trained to a very high standard to recognise the idiosyncracies of people who are on drugs, under the influence of alcohol, have any of an array of mental health issues, physical and / or learning disabilities ( ? ) Cough, don,t hold your breath, cough...

Sounds like a money saving idea to me. Saves the cost of having real people monitoring c.c.t.v
I don,t know about the USA, but here in the UK, such camera schemes are monitored by trained staff...real people, who can generally discriminate accurately in such matters...

I suspect that the responding security guards / LEO,s will tire of false call outs and may ignore a genuine situation ?

The article mentions the name of a company that makes these systems.

BRB Labs

This page shows a bunch of a examples....

- Vehicle travelling the wrong way down a street
- Humans seen in a restricted area
- Luggage put in a place where it shouldnt be
- Passengers getting out of a car at a security checkpoint
- Human is seen walking in a roadway where only vehicles travel
- Car driving on a railway line!!!
- Armed person present at an unexpect time
- A manufacturing plant malfunction
- A truck is noticed backing up to the entrance door of a secure facility where the usual behavior is to drive forward and around the turning court.

If I understand correctly, what is "normal" and what is "abnormal" isnt programmed manually into the system, but instead the system watches and learns by itself for normal behaviour. After this learning period, it then alerts to things that it hasnt seen before. (Learning continues on through the life of the system.)

Obviously under these circumstances, humans then have to go take a look to see what the real situation is.
The company doesnt claim that the camera system "detects pre-crime" (or whatever), it merely "alerts" a human to an unusual situation.

The problem a camera can make any behavior look suspicious.

Especially if a person doesn't know what they're looking at.

Shameful. I don't think I'm going to live in San Fransisco like I wanted to.

I'm tired of this surveillance state of America.

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by freakjive

 

They will of course be trained to a very high standard to recognise the idiosyncracies of people who are on drugs, under the influence of alcohol, have any of an array of mental health issues, physical and / or learning disabilities ( ? ) Cough, don,t hold your breath, cough...

Will they be able to tell when people are just screwing with their heads?

Originally posted by Skewed

Will they be able to tell when people are just screwing with their heads?

No, so you will be "conditioned" not to do so. Forcefully if necessary.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


Forcefully it will be then. Because if I want to walk down the street with a hoody and my hands in the pocket, I will. If I want to walk down the street and just fall down for no apparent reason, I will. If I want to walk down the street like I have had one too many then I will. If I want to stop and do jumping jacks on the sidewalk, I will. Too much fun to be had.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
No, so you will be "conditioned" not to do so. Forcefully if necessary.

America. Land of the scream, home of the tazed?