Muslim Woman Asked to Remove Headscarf in NJ Mall

The amount of bigotry by ATS members just astounds me. We complain how the government is trying to take over our lives to the smallest details, how they are monitoring our conversations, watching our every move and destroying the Constitution. Yet when a woman who offers no threat and is just following what she believes (and don't presume she is forced into this as you just don't know) and you have quite a number of members saying 'this is America, you have to do what I tell you to do'.

What she is doing is not against the law. Therefore, what right do we have to say she can't follow her religion? I was said she may be a terrorist hiding under her clothes. Okay, so the TSA is a valid organization and should be brought into all aspects of our lives. If we suspect one, we must suspect all.

What happened to 'America, the land of the free'? Has it become 'America the land of the free just so long as you behave the way I think you should'? The irony and hypocrisy of Americans shows itself well. And , yes, I am an American.

Originally posted by ObservingTheWorld
The amount of bigotry by ATS members just astounds me. We complain how the government is trying to take over our lives to the smallest details, how they are monitoring our conversations, watching our every move and destroying the Constitution. Yet when a woman who offers no threat and is just following what she believes (and don't presume she is forced into this as you just don't know) and you have quite a number of members saying 'this is America, you have to do what I tell you to do'.

What she is doing is not against the law. Therefore, what right do we have to say she can't follow her religion? I was said she may be a terrorist hiding under her clothes. Okay, so the TSA is a valid organization and should be brought into all aspects of our lives. If we suspect one, we must suspect all.

What happened to 'America, the land of the free'? Has it become 'America the land of the free just so long as you behave the way I think you should'? The irony and hypocrisy of Americans shows itself well. And , yes, I am an American.

I would applaud you if I could. Ver y well said.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
So I guess my question is....how do you feel about this? Is it even an issue?

Have you been hiding under a rock for the last 5 years? Yes it is an issue, the reasons why have been brought up numerous times, the internet is your friend, google: niqab france.

You're welcome.

Please don't ask inane questions looking for confrontation on a site that professes to deny ignorance, it is .. ignorant!

Edit - the posts above and below mine prove exactly my point. Just a total facepalm troll attack OP.


T

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Good. If we went to her country, we would have to abide by their ways. Theyre here...so abide by ours.

BS! Your wife wouldn't have to wear a veil there, so why should that muslim woman remove hers in your mall?

B.S.S.! they would give your woman problems for not complying to their form of dress in some way or another. The only exception is; here it is less likely that someone random would act in violence to "condemn the infidel woman" (like striking her or throwing rocks) don't blow anything up like they are so cooperative when they are not. When the headdressers are in the majority they always forcefully enforce their traditions. Muslims are always peacful until they are in the majority and the fanatics start to work. As with christianity, the radicals ruin it for every one.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Of course I read it....If this is her country...all the more reason to abide by laws. Relgious freedon, of course. But, I still hold the same opinion.

If a religious sect here...say a grown man walks down the street kissing a preteen girl becasue his religion says its ok ...and they are "married"....you'd be fine with that going on in front of you? Thats religious freedom...rt?

There are no laws banning veils. Kissing and marrying a preteen is illegal and not protected religious practices. Religious customs need to be legal in the first place. For example things like pedophilia and murder are illegal so if a religion wanted to feel up kids and kill their parents for religious purposes they can't use the law to protect themselves.

I'm fine with the veil...

Where is this security guard? I want to shake his hand. In the Koran it says that anyone who isn't Muslim must treat a Muslim with the utmost respect possible. Muslims themselves are allowed to treat anyone like dirt, and if they can't hate a non-Muslim in person they must "hate them in their heart." Disgusting. Organized religion can be practiced on your own time, but in public you're fair game. Yes, this goes for religions OTHER than Christianity as well you biased bunch. The OS of 9/11 has most believing that radical Muslims caused a disaster, so why should they still be treated normally in our own country? Of course i'm being "ignorant" right now, but hey, can't please EVERYONE especially liberals

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by karen61057

 

NO, nonsense.

Their ways are an insult to our ways. Women should not be treated like slaves, nor run around covered head to toe.

Anymore than dropping trow and servicing ones self as a claim of religious beliefs should not be allowed, or human sacrifice.

I think the burqa is just as distasteful.

You epitomize religious intolerance. You have no right dictating religious practices and traditions to anyone. Seriously, who the hell are you? Whether you agree with them or not, it is EVERY American's right to follow their religious traditions without persecution. Sikhs are allowed to wear turbans, Jews are allowed to wear yarmulkes, Muslim women are allowed to wear burqas, and you are allowed to wear your double-beercan hat.

Wearing a traditional religious garment is not even in the same universe as #ting in public or human sacrifice. This isn't YOUR country, it's OUR country. Try reading the Constitution before opening your mouth. [snip]

Originally posted by ObservingTheWorld
The amount of bigotry by ATS members just astounds me. We complain how the government is trying to take over our lives to the smallest details, how they are monitoring our conversations, watching our every move and destroying the Constitution. Yet when a woman who offers no threat and is just following what she believes (and don't presume she is forced into this as you just don't know) and you have quite a number of members saying 'this is America, you have to do what I tell you to do'.

What she is doing is not against the law. Therefore, what right do we have to say she can't follow her religion? I was said she may be a terrorist hiding under her clothes. Okay, so the TSA is a valid organization and should be brought into all aspects of our lives. If we suspect one, we must suspect all.

What happened to 'America, the land of the free'? Has it become 'America the land of the free just so long as you behave the way I think you should'? The irony and hypocrisy of Americans shows itself well. And , yes, I am an American.

Well as far as I am concerned as a retail clerk and an American we also have the right not to allow unidentifiable people enter our establishment. if I was a business owner I have the right to ask for someone to remove their face covering or to shop somewhere else. I personally have nothing against them wearing it to their heart's content outside on the street but I do have an issue with someone say in a ski mask coming into my shop (Even if it is a ski shop) so there you are. I also don't think it's a religious thing as most people have stated it is more a cultural thing...but wait, this woman is American...So she grew up in our culture. If she likes that culture fine, but in a place where armoured cars make pick ups/ drops and there are banks I would say it is not going to be met with open arms because it could be someone not a woman who is present to hold up the bank or armoured car. With all the coverings you can't tell. Not that criminals are that smart, but I say better safe then sorry. Personally, I do think it's beautiful, whenever I saw it in PA, then I learned about what it symbolized over there (Which I was not aware of at the time). And it just makes me wonder as a woman why they'd want to wear it after knowing that. But to each their own. Personally as a woman even if I converted I would not wear it, because to me it is something that is identified with oppression, but that's just me. However as stated the mall is both private (Individual stores) and ppublic common areas...so there is where you may run into a bit of an issue. And who is to say now that this story is public, some criminal gets the idea to use it from this?

Originally posted by nonono
In my country there's a law that says you can't wear a mask in public because it makes it difficult to identify you. I suspect a similar law would also exist in New Jersey... so why should this woman be allowed to wear a headscarf that hides most of her facial features?

BEcause any law that requires someone to not practice their religion is constitutionally illegal. She has the right to practice her religion; however, the mall has a right to require any patron of their privately owned establishment to act in ways that is in accordance with their establishment.

No one is required to shop there, if they want to, they have to abide by the rules of the establishment.

The government is NOT allowed to pass a law that infringes on the right to freely practice one's religion though...

JAden

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Originally posted by acuna

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Of course I read it....If this is her country...all the more reason to abide by laws. Relgious freedon, of course. But, I still hold the same opinion.

If a religious sect here...say a grown man walks down the street kissing a preteen girl becasue his religion says its ok ...and they are "married"....you'd be fine with that going on in front of you? Thats religious freedom...rt?

There are no laws banning veils. Kissing and marrying a preteen is illegal and not protected religious practices. Religious customs need to be legal in the first place. For example things like pedophilia and murder are illegal so if a religion wanted to feel up kids and kill their parents for religious purposes they can't use the law to protect themselves.

I'm fine with the veil... [/quote

Yes and beating your kid is also against the law, but Amish peple can and do and use their religous beleif as a protection (Never saw CPS go to an Amish community). Because the bible says "spare the rod spoil the child". See in America some things are ok and protected even beating your kids, while others even if it's your religious beleifs isn't. So they could make exceptions to standing identity issues or they could say that it is not acceptable under any circumstance to hide your face. It really could go either way. And the biggest pedo's are the government and elites, they just have those laws to protect their "commodity". Sort of like the war on drugs you can't sell it unless you are the government and they are the major transporters, they just want the competition out of the way.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I live in the US and even my youngest at almost 5 has to remove hoods and large bags. I know that this is to prevent theft and allow any vandals or criminals to be identified. I do not think it is ok that we cater to one religious symbol yet not others.

I think that a woman being forced to cover herself by cultural conditioning is abuse. If I was to raise my children to believe that it is ok to cage or shackle the females when the "man" of the family is away the children would grow to accept that. Yet it is not my place to fix customs from another country but I sure shouldn't have to explain why a woman feels ashamed or whats wrong with her face to my children in a country where that is not the norm and should not be.

I feel sorry for her that she felt unsafe, to be honest that is how I feel when I can not see the faces of people around me and my family.

Originally posted by draco49
Rude bits removed.... America is NOT a Christian nation, nor was it founded on the tenets of Christianity.

Easy with the swearing there Dear.

Edit - See post below by GetReadyAlready.. explains it far better than I could.

T

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Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by Starchildren

 

I'm sorry I have a bad time hearing english, I'm old but the ones with thick accents I really can't understand you know if they got me a spanish speaking one even I could understand spanish, no I didn't study punjabi, I studied french and spanish and italian, if they hand the phone to anyone of those language speaking folk I could actually understand the person on the phone. Maybe if they had told us at school we were going to need Punjabi, I would have taken it...but nobody could have foreseen that, not that it was even available at our school. Oh and one crazy teacher I had said to learn chinese cause they were gonna run the world by now.

FYI They don't all speak "punjabi". They speak Farsi, Hindi, and other languages. If you ever want to educate yourself you can try Rosetta Stone.

By the way I am a Native Indian of this country, the USA, and I speak Lakota. Can you understand Lakota?

Originally posted by ObservingTheWorld
The amount of bigotry by ATS members just astounds me. We complain how the government is trying to take over our lives to the smallest details, how they are monitoring our conversations, watching our every move and destroying the Constitution. Yet when a woman who offers no threat and is just following what she believes (and don't presume she is forced into this as you just don't know) and you have quite a number of members saying 'this is America, you have to do what I tell you to do'.

Haven't you heard? This is Amerika and in this country we act white and speak English. Anyone who can't do that needs to get out.

reply to post by draco49


In that case, kind sir please step into the wicker man I may be a little behind yet the solstice comes. Nice name calling I think you perhaps need a lesson in controlled conversation.

reply to post by torqpoc


They are wrong anyway. America was most certainly founded as a Christian nation. The constitution was written to ensure religious tolerance, but there is no doubt, in any history book or account of the settling and founding of this nation that it was entirely rooted in Christianity. When they talked of tolerance, they meant tolerance of Puritan v. Catholic, but they never envisioned Atheism or Islam at the time.

The natives were forced to convert, the slaves were forced to convert, etc., etc.

It was in fact the "Shining City on the Hill."

That is a debate for a whole other thread I suppose, but nobody should be claiming this country was not founded as a Christian nation.

I don't identify myself as a Christian, I'm more of a Deist, as I believe they are all the same god by different names. Some of our founding fathers believed this way also. They would have been tolerant of Muslims, or Buddhists, or Hindus, but they still built the foundations upon Christian teachings.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Could not agree more GetReadyAlready, I was trying to not cause a storm, but well .. you can't escape the truth.

Appreciate the response Sir.

Be well

T

reply to post by Thunder heart woman


I'd love to learn to speak Lakota.

The country does need to adopt English as its official language, and all official business needs to be conducted in English. It just makes sense, and it will relieve some of the accidents that happen, and it will make everything run more efficiently. People can speak whatever they want to speak in addition to English, but the country needs a unifying language. The USSR made everyone speak Russian. My buddies from there can speak many languages, but official business was done in Russian. My best friend speaks Russian, Armenian, English, and Spanish very fluently.

Growing up where I grew up, almost everyone was some part Native American. Cherokee was the main bloodline, but I happen to be Choctaw and Apache. The Apache/Shoshone languages are almost dead, but I'd love to be able to learn them!!

None of this has anything to do with what you, and others have called "bigotry." It isn't bigotry to expect people to respect your culture as well as maintaining their own. If someone moves to the US, they need to learn English, they need to abide by the laws and rules, and they also need to cling to their roots and pass that heritage down to their children. It is a melding pot.