Video of Blackwater Contractors Driving Over Iraqi Woman

Ive seen way worse than this when Youtube was in its infancy. This is nothing compared to those.

In retrospect, we shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by 31Bravo

 

In the video which is just one shining example, the soldier is not a virtuous trooper just following orders, they are mocking, hateful and insulting to the very people they are there to be supposedly helping. Reminds me of the videos where the UN goes in and becomes part of the worst of experiences in Africa.

When your placed in situations where your life is on the line.And you cant tell the good guys from the bad guys this isnt like a movie the bad guys didnt wear black hats. When you get your hormones pumping and in the first video it was hard to tell if that car purposefully tried to block the humm v in the intersection. But I will say the driver thought he did and most of the people in there first reaction would have been oh crap. Then there waiting for the next shoe to drop are we going to be fired at does someone have an rpg and trying to slow us down? When traveling in Iraq in the early days your only safety was speed not getting caught in a situation were you couldnt move the vehicle was the difference between life and death. Now when people come off an adrenaline rush there going to say things like what are you looking at etc.High school kids do it all the time its just tough talk after a scary situation.Youll never understand because your at home safe in your house and people arent trying to kill you.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by 31Bravo

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by dragonridr

 

I was just talking about that in an above post. So you're telling me if they Presidents caravan runs me over no one stops? Why, where is threat? Thanks for calling for help. I appreciate it. And this wasn't an actual detail, they had no VIP, they were just practicing. Which btw, apparently they need more practice. Maybe in a parking lot.

For you to understand, it would take you experiencing a mission brief of ROE (Rules of Engagment) and the SAFETY of the members of your convoy (hey.. this could be one of your family members) and then possibly witnessing a bomb explode out of nowhere. You won't understand because you surf YouTube videos that are edited so that you can make hate comments on ATS.

Oh no, I imagine you're right. If they were driving a VIP around and they hit me with their vehicles they would keep on driving and leave me be. I even agree with you that the Presidents convoy would continue to keep on truckin if they hit me. These are VIPs we are talking about, not normal people like your brother or sister. Although I image in a war zone like Iraq one can understand the haste and not stopping. That said, doesn't mean I agree with any of it, and too boot these guys were just practicing. They were not driving any VIP around in that video.

And again, you're right. Right now, probably just like you, I'm an arm chair warrior surfin the YouTubes looking my ignorant videos so I can spew all my hate to the world but I served in military at that time as well. I wasn't in Iraq though, sailors usually aren't found on the ground, unless they've pulled into port. Then you'll find them on the ground, usually in a bar.

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by dragonridr

 

I was just talking about that in an above post. So you're telling me if they Presidents caravan runs me over no one stops? Why, where is threat? Thanks for calling for help. I appreciate it. And this wasn't an actual detail, they had no VIP, they were just practicing. Which btw, apparently they need more practice. Maybe in a parking lot.

That wasnt practice first it wasnt blackwater that was US military.Second did you see those vehicles in between the hum vs they were a VIP escort. Thats why ou hear the sirens even the Iraqis knew to get out of the way. And to let you know they didnt practice there were plenty of VIPS to drive around. The other thing later on Iraqi police became involved and would have been in front and behind the escort.However this was during the early days when the iraqi government was still young and didnt have the ability to escort the military. Id say the dates wrong on the video to id say 2004 to 2005 by 06 the police did start helping with vip transports.

reply to post by 31Bravo


Nope, we love our country, hate blackwater.

reply to post by Swills


unfortunately, the children of an ugly culture, unemployed, who join the military, only have the character given them by an ugly culture, aka our media and elite-pig controllers. how will these children of an ugly culture have character? how? ugly culture.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

You don't want that to happen? Get the Hell out of their country. Simples.

That is above our pay-grades.

Further complicating this issue is a comparable hypothetical example. Suppose U.N. peacekeeping forces were deployed in response to OWS in order to preserve critical infrastructure.

Some people would be all for this. Others would be all against it. And still others would agree that a response to OWS was necessary, but completely disagree with the presence of the U.N.

It is not so different in Iraq. Some are all for us being there. Others are all against us being there. Still others agree that the mission we fill there is necessary - but that it should be someone else filling it (of course, the problems there stem from the Shiite and Sunni Islamic factions struggling against each other for power).

So, it's like bringing in the U.N. to quell an all-out war between Conservatives and Liberals in the U.S. You're really going to have five main camps of thought when it comes to that - those who are all for the U.N. involvement. Those who are pro-conservative domination (therefor anti-UN); those who are pro-liberal domination (and therefor anti-UN); those who agree the UN is doing something that needs to be done, but uncomfortable with the UN; and those who hate everybody.

The mission in Iraq has evolved from removing Saddam, to that of nation building, to that of trying to quell a civil war that was suppressed by the draconian measures of the Baath party.

Sure - this wouldn't have happened if we "weren't in their country." ... but what stops that person from getting run over or gunned down by dissenting factions within their own country? Bad things happen everywhere, and there's nothing you can do to prevent them. Trying to prevent one undesirable event leads to risks of other undesirable events occurring. You simply have to manage the risks, and be prepared to respond to the mishaps.

reply to post by Swills

Okay.. I think points get misconstrued as sarcasm or snarky. I would like to apologize if they came across that way, I'm trying to help you understand the possibility that what you watched was geared towards anti-americanism.

They way things are done over there cannot be interpreted by you.. you don't understand standard operating procedures, and neither do the journalists... they just see a woman and vehicle get hit in a video and then start forming in to public (i.e. you) opinion. In reality, the vehicle accident PROBABLY was not on purpose, but because of the aggressive driving it happened. Why the woman walked out in front of a convoy is beyond me.. it is possible that maybe she was trying to stop the convoy long enough for an ambush to occur. Moving trucks are useless to attackers.. sitting ducks are. It is very possible she figured the convoy would suddenly stop if she walked out in front of them. Realistically, attackers do not want to give the target time to think, or make a snap change of course.

reply to post by Swills


Met my fair share of squids usually went well unless of course the marines were involved then it lead to some unpleasant behavior.Marines seems to hate everybody but i all ways attributed that to the fact that we used to call them sand bags. Running joke in the army they would send them in to give us something to hide behind in a fight.Funny Marines didnt like that much.In total seriousness though i respected the marines most of the time.

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by 31Bravo

 

Nope, we love our country, hate blackwater.

I gave you a star for that one

reply to post by popsmayhem


i was a soldier. retired. you sir disgust me. if they drove through your town like that and hit your mom. would you say the same thing? and to think i thought about applying for this group. disgusting display of low character and thoughtlessness. absolutely disgusting.

Originally posted by popsmayhem
Southtown POD is the music
and might I say exceptional
choice, I love POD.

First video
They did not run anyone over
they acidently hit a car that
was blocking the road!
Blatant propaganda

Second part, the lady clearly walks
where the car is going to hit her,
this is not the military so can't blaim them

edit on 6-4-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

Defend these videos if you like, and pretend they are doing nothing wrong, but I viewed one earlier today that showed the Blackwater no-necks firing rifles at cars as they drove by - for no reason. The cars weren't even in their way. Perhaps you should watch that one as well.

heres an idea. GET OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY AND LEAVE THEM ALONE. LEAVE ALL OF THEM ALONE. I WOULD HATE ANYBODY DRIVING AROUND MY TOWN LIKE THAT THINKING THEY OWN THE PLACE. i understand sop. i been there but now i see how wrong this all is. just............gaah!

Originally posted by Swills
. I can't believe you watched this video and are defending the Black Water folks.

One look at his avatar and I can believe it.

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by dragonridr

 

I was just talking about that in an above post. So you're telling me if they Presidents caravan runs me over no one stops? Why, where is threat? Thanks for calling for help. I appreciate it. And this wasn't an actual detail, they had no VIP, they were just practicing. Which btw, apparently they need more practice. Maybe in a parking lot.

That wasnt practice first it wasnt blackwater that was US military.Second did you see those vehicles in between the hum vs they were a VIP escort. Thats why ou hear the sirens even the Iraqis knew to get out of the way. And to let you know they didnt practice there were plenty of VIPS to drive around. The other thing later on Iraqi police became involved and would have been in front and behind the escort.However this was during the early days when the iraqi government was still young and didnt have the ability to escort the military. Id say the dates wrong on the video to id say 2004 to 2005 by 06 the police did start helping with vip transports.

I'm not entirely sold yet that they were US military and not US contractors. But if I were to totally agree with you that would mean either Charles Glass is lying or he was given the wrong information. His entire article is based on this being US contractors, Blackwater. Is it really so hard to believe US contractors drove humvees?

To read this guys article you have to be a subscriber to the site, so I'm going to subscribe and read the whole article and hopefully will be able to come back to this thread with details about his source and what have you.

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by Retikx

 

So you missed the part where the US Black Water contractors drove over an Iraqi woman?

One, She walked out in front of the convoy blaring their horns.
Two, the driver did all he could by slamming on his brakes, it wasn't his fault she kept walking!
Three, If she wasn't deaf and made blind by the stupid Burka she would be alive or not hurt today!

Four, If they had stopped they would have been quickly attacked and more Iraqis would have lost their lives because they are ignorant, jump to conclusions and resort to violence without thinking. That is just something they can not do in a war zone. They called it in to the locals and protected their asset like they are paid to do.

You have to put this into context.

First, this video is from 2006 when we were losing 2 people a DAY to IEDs. This was the height of the insurgency, and the ROE was never, NEVER stop moving. These contractors mostly worked for State at this point, and were tasked with ferrying high value state department officials from the airport to the green zone.

At that point in the game, stopping was a death sentence. State and gave the PMCs the rules, and they followed them. It wasn't like that contractor (and we don't know what PMC he was a part of, whether it was BW or some other group) had a choice.

I'm not defending anyone here, I'm just stating the facts (and these rules stayed in place under Obama) and what the situation on the ground was at the time.

If you're in a shootout, and a civilian gets hit, you can't just stand up, make a "T" with your hand, call timeout and everyone stops shooting.

And to the people screaming about how we should get out: Newsflash: we're out. All US combat forces left Iraq months ago.

The video is out of context and misrepresents the situation.

T9

reply to post by dragonridr


Oh yeah, I've hung out with many a marine, in fact both my parents are marines (long retired), and I've seen a fight or too. Most fights were usually over women, from what I remember, but they were the minority, usually the stupidest and drunkest guys end up fighting. I never had any problems although I do recall my big toe being a victim of one of these fights. A marine was upset and somehow a keg fell on my big toe. The nail later fell off.

reply to post by Swills

If they were driving a VIP around and they hit me with their vehicles they would keep on driving and leave me be.

It is not uncommon for people to run out in front of a convoy with a bomb strapped to their chest. Most normal people observe from a distance when anything looking remotely military drives through. Someone who approaches wants one of three things; to sell something, assistance, or trouble.

It's quite difficult to tell exactly what they want - even someone who gives you every indication of being a merchant can suddenly whip out a weapon or disappear in a cloud of pink mist and debris.

One of the guys deploying with our unit was in Falluja and was valued for his ability to speak Arabic. They ran across a man who was standing in a jacket, and he was told to approach the man and ask how he was/what he was doing. It was 120 degrees outside. He told the officer that he knew exactly what that guy was doing - it's 120 degrees outside, he's wearing a jacket, and mumbling under his breath with a charm in his hand. The officer insisted he approach as per ROE... got within 100 meters and called to the guy, who proceeded to disappear into the aforementioned spray of pink mist and debris.

Another guy deploying with the same unit came from Afghanistan where he was driving one of those IED-resistant trucks when he hit an IED of several 155mm rounds - blew a crater nearly 50 meters across and over 5 meters deep; turned the passenger side of the vehicle vertical.

You want to be very choosy about when and where you stop.

That said, doesn't mean I agree with any of it, and too boot these guys were just practicing. They were not driving any VIP around in that video.

They were? Not sure where you garnered this information.

And again, you're right. Right now, probably just like you, I'm an arm chair warrior surfin the YouTubes looking my ignorant videos so I can spew all my hate to the world but I served in military at that time as well. I wasn't in Iraq though, sailors usually aren't found on the ground, unless they've pulled into port. Then you'll find them on the ground, usually in a bar.

Navy Expeditionary Warfare. I've wormed my way through a number of communities in the Navy.

I can tell you that your military experience is irrelevant in this discussion. Take AT2's advice on this one.