Why Are So Many People Debating About Gay Marriages? You've All Got It All Wrong!

Originally posted by IanPaul


Again, I'm using extremes to make a point... Would it be ok for someone to assume you are a biggot because you don't believe two 12-year-old gay boys should be allowed to marry?

Who could more logically be called a bigot - someone who is concerned about children getting into a legal contract they don't understand -- or someone who doesn't think gays should be allowed to marry because they are against gays in general?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IanPaul

Again, I'm using extremes to make a point... Would it be ok for someone to assume you are a biggot because you don't believe two 12-year-old gay boys should be allowed to marry?

When you ask these questions - - you need to first insert Hetero instead of Gay and see if it makes any sense to you.

As in: "Would it be ok for someone to assume you are a biggot because you don't believe two 12-year-old hetero boys should be allowed to marry?"

I don't see what you mean here... How would two boys getting married be considered hetero?

Originally posted by IanPaul
Someone can have a belief without being hateful or ill-minded and that is what is not being recognized.

I personally do not consider fighting for equal rights of a minority - - a belief.

I've also stated I know people who do not support Homosexuality for religious reasons - - - but still support the right for Gays to marry - - - because that's about Equal Rights - - - and they are intelligent and open minded enough to know the difference.

When a belief is used to deny Equal Rights - - - that is a prejudice and yes that is Bigotry. No matter how one tries to sugar coated.

There is a difference between personal belief - - - and using that belief to deny Equal Rights.

Originally posted by IanPaul

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IanPaul

Again, I'm using extremes to make a point... Would it be ok for someone to assume you are a biggot because you don't believe two 12-year-old gay boys should be allowed to marry?

When you ask these questions - - you need to first insert Hetero instead of Gay and see if it makes any sense to you.

As in: "Would it be ok for someone to assume you are a biggot because you don't believe two 12-year-old hetero boys should be allowed to marry?"

I don't see what you mean here... How would two boys getting married be considered hetero?

Oops! I knew I was missing something there. Leap Frog is distracting me.

"Would it be ok for someone to assume you are a biggot because you don't believe a 12-year-old hetero boy and girl should be allowed to marry?"

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by IanPaul


Again, I'm using extremes to make a point... Would it be ok for someone to assume you are a biggot because you don't believe two 12-year-old gay boys should be allowed to marry?

Who could more logically be called a bigot - someone who is concerned about children getting into a legal contract they don't understand -- or someone who doesn't think gays should be allowed to marry because they are against gays in general?

Exactly. I agree that they wouldn't be able to make such an important decision being that they were children, BUT someone could have it in their mind that it is ok, so therefore you are a biggot because you don't believe that two 12 YO boys should get married.. See what I mean? It is logical to you and I, and we agree, that it shouldn't be allowed for 12 year olds, or younger even to make that decision.

Originally posted by IanPaul


And that's what I said that I see her point 100%... I want tolerance as well, especially for alternative views. That's what makes us all unique. Someone can have a belief without being hateful or ill-minded and that is what is not being recognized. My issue originally is with the unacceptance of everyones beliefs. I accept yours, Annee's, and NewSoul's, and everyone's on here. I may not agree with everyone's belief but I accept that that is who they are, and will share my opinion, as well as listen to theirs.

On a side/similar note: I remember when I was younger my parents didn't want me watching certain shows that displayed strong sexual scenes or foul language, even though they knew I would eventually see it or hear it, they wanted to keep innocence in my life. If someone doesn't want their children witnessing gay people kissing or strong language, it is entirely up to the parent to make that decision. Now if the parent is telling the kids, "you see those 2 men over there? They are evil devils and you need to avoid them like the plague!", that is hateful and biggoted. There is a clear difference between being a biggot and having an opinion.

I think we agree in principle. I believe the other poster was saying something to the effect "I tell my children I think being gay is wrong". That teaches intolerance. When I was growing up in the South, a lot of parents taught their children that black people were inferior to whites. Was that their right? Well, it wasn't illegal, but was it right? Due to the conscious-raising efforts of the civil rights movement, thankfully there are now much fewer people who teach their children this about blacks. Hopefully, people like Annee and myself can raise some consciousness about gays as well. It's their turn for dignity, respect and equality.

Originally posted by IanPaul
. . that it shouldn't be allowed for 12 year olds, or younger even to make that decision.

But legally they can't. At least not without parental consent.

So what is the point?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IanPaul
. . that it shouldn't be allowed for 12 year olds, or younger even to make that decision.

But legally they can't. At least not without parental consent.

So what is the point?

I think his point is, if they want to work to change the laws, is that ok. (compared to gays who want to change laws allowing gay marriage)

It becomes a more serious matter when discrimination comes into play. As far as gays are concerned, denial of marriage is a form of discrimination. I agree with you that the government shouldn't regulate something as personal as marriage, but discrimination is an entirely different ballpark.

If a straight couple is allowed to marry, a gay couple should be allowed to marry; if this requires gays to have their own churches, it turns into discrimination and involuntary segregation. Furthermore, I think that these closet-case, homophobic Christians would be far more outraged by gay churches than they would gay marriage.

Would be fun to see that unfold, though.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IanPaul
. . that it shouldn't be allowed for 12 year olds, or younger even to make that decision.

But legally they can't. At least not without parental consent.

So what is the point?

I think his point is, if they want to work to change the laws, is that ok. (compared to gays who want to change laws allowing gay marriage)

Right.

Gays only want Rights that are already in place for Heteros.

reply to post by Annee


Why is this so difficult to understand? Bigotry: stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. This is the definition of bigotry. You are quick to use this term for anyone that doesn't agree with your opinion, but you fail to see that it also applies to you.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Marriage existed before religion...

Pop goes another deluded chrisians idiot bubble.

Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by Annee

 

Why is this so difficult to understand? Bigotry: stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. This is the definition of bigotry. You are quick to use this term for anyone that doesn't agree with your opinion, but you fail to see that it also applies to you.

Having a belief is one thing.

Deny rights to others because of that belief is prejudice and bigotry.

I suggest you just leave me alone.

reply to post by kaylaluv


If you are going to quote me, please be correct with the quote. I have told my children that I do not agree with homosexuality and why I believe so. I do not have hatred toward gays, nor do I harbor angry or negative feelings toward them as people. I do not agree with homosexuality. Do you see the difference?? I do not agree with pedophilia, in my opinion it is an inappropriate action, I have taught my children that I think it is wrong. If that is seen as intolerance, so be it.

reply to post by Annee


I haven't been on this thread all day, I come back to find that you are still calling me a bigot and am simply defending my belief about this issue. I have raised several valid points that you completely ignore and simply revert back to calling me a bigot. Name calling is very childish and simply shows everyone that your argument is weak at best.

This will be my last response to you.

Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

If you are going to quote me, please be correct with the quote. I have told my children that I do not agree with homosexuality and why I believe so. I do not have hatred toward gays, nor do I harbor angry or negative feelings toward them as people. I do not agree with homosexuality. Do you see the difference?? I do not agree with pedophilia, in my opinion it is an inappropriate action, I have taught my children that I think it is wrong. If that is seen as intolerance, so be it.

I hope you see the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.

What if one of your children turns out to be gay? Will you have to go back and retract what you told them? Will you disown them? What would you do? Would you start fighting for gay rights if one of your children was gay?

Originally posted by kaylaluv

What if one of your children turns out to be gay? Will you have to go back and retract what you told them? Will you disown them? What would you do? Would you start fighting for gay rights if one of your children was gay?

How about if one of her children are bullied and killed for being gay.

How about if one of her children commit suicide because they've disappointed mommy by being gay.

Gay is a "Birth Right" - - - it is not a choice. It is their Normal/Natural state of being. It is as God made them.

Originally posted by Annee
No one forced NewSoul to come into a Gay Marriage discussion - - with gay intolerance.

Let's get the word intolerance, doing that first might be a good idea

Intolerant
— adj (foll by of )
1.
lacking respect for practices and beliefs other than one's own

in·tol·er·ance
noun
1.
lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs

dictionary.reference.com...

To not be able to tolerate other people's beliefs or opinions
If NewSoul is intolerant of other people's lifestyle you are equally or more intolerant of her beliefs or people of like-minded beliefs

And I see more tolerance with her serene approach to this debate and see with you with more impatience and therefore intolerance.

Not sending you a personal attack or anything, just telling it like it is

Originally posted by Annee
Denying Equal Rights - - is still Denying Equal Rights.

Who is she denying?
All that she is saying is that her opinion differs from yours

Not accepting Homosexuality - - - is exactly the same thing as not accepting someone born with Red Hair.

Only you can dye your hair a different color.

You can Not change your Birth Orientation.

reply to post by kaylaluv


I have already responded to this question. Please read the entire thread in order to know my stance on this issue.