Up to 20 US troops behind Kandahar bloodbath - Afghan probe

An Afghan parliamentary investigation team

This made me laugh. Seriously?

With their extensive training in crime scene reconstruction.

Originally posted by MainLineThis
I certainly think one guy could have done it. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

11 people where in one location - one family.

reply to post by FFS4000


I smell a rat.

If it was just one guy doing the violence, 16-20 sounds about the right amount of deaths. If there were 20 soldiers running around shooting, then yes, whole villages might be wiped out. I seriously doubt that there was just a lone wolf. Here is where it gets interesting. Why would 20 soldiers kill a small amount of Afghan villagers then blame all of it on one man? I mean, not too long ago we had the Kuran burnings which turned out to be soldiers disposing of them instead of "protesting" against the Kuran. Now this? Maybe Obama is trying to keep Afghanistan on the edge for the upcoming elections. Maybe the bureaucracy wants to stay in Afghanistan for resources and they ran out of luck of Bin Laden.

reply to post by purplemer


theres death and destruction everywhere most of the time these days.... what makes this one worse/more terrible than any other ?
my heart always goes out to all who have suffered and/or are suffering....
one day the earth and its people shall be at one, with peace..... one day...

reply to post by questforevidence


Maybe you are correct but if there is conflicting evidence regarding a serious issue it should be investigated thoroughly.

Originally posted by beezzer
Whether it was one or twenty or two hundred, it doesn't matter.
Somehow, this horrible act, has triggered an event where we are actually thinking about leaving Afghanistan early.

Yes. It was a terrible thing.

But to use it as a fulcrum for the entire operation in Afghanistan is insane.

This just shows how "uncommited" our spineless leaders are. Want to leave? Fine.

Just don't use this as an excuse. It makes us look weak.
*bah*
I'm disgusted by the whole thing!
*throws hands in disgust*

The anti-war activist were cheering when they heard this.
If your going to make a omlet your going to have to break
a few eggs.
Very possibe there was only one gun man... Look at Anders from the norway
killings. They thought he was two people, because he was so good.

Originally posted by MainLineThis
Reply to post by purplemer

 

Sad that it happened. We should just get out of that country and let them go back to being toothless mud but living religious morons.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Just like these folks right?

I think that one man armed with an M16 could easily have accomplished this.

Look at what happened in Norway.

I don't trust the Afghan government much.

reply to post by popsmayhem
I just can't believe that people are shocked that deaths occur in war.

Sure, if this guy acted out, he deserves to be punished. If twenty acted out, then THEY deserve to be punished.

But you don't cancel the mission because of it.

Hell, if Obama was in place of Queen Isobella, Columbus would have never discovered America. (Someone might have gotten hurt)
If Obama was POTUS during the Challenger disaster, then he'd have scuttled the Shuttles then.

This is the "dodgeball" mentality. Can't do it because someone might get hurt!

On the site PressTV
PressTV
they say it is 3 villeinage's that had people killed.

and one is so far off that you need to drive.
and to get out of the army post at night with a
vehicle you Have to have two people or more.

reply to post by buddha


Would they let a drunk guy drive off the base? I sure hope not..... So that would mean he would have at least needed a driver?

And beezer, there is a huge difference between enemies killed in a war, and citizens dragged from their homes and murdered. People are outraged that woman and children were murdered.

If this guy was mentally unstable they put him in the last place in the world he needed to be. Panjwai is a very hostile place at least when i visited down there. The Villages there talking about arent what we think of as villages. Let me explain they make there money tending pomegranate groves been doing it for 100s of years. Well each grove is tended by a family and each family is considered a village. So literally the mud hut across the street or the tent that was set up could be a separate village since which groves they worked decided which village they were in. Now for a little background This area is Taliban territory they aid and assist them. The reason us troops set up a camp there is because of hwy 1 runs right by there. And roadside bombs along hwy 1 can literally bring everything to a stop.The villagers were known to be hostile you didn't go into that area without full combat gear.The Canadians lost alot of people in that area they liked to get military personnel alone to kill them.

The villages haven't changed for 100s of years there is no running water no electricity.The mud houses have doors held together with what ever they could find. Hinges were often times wires or bent nails.When going through these villages the only sign of any technology is the AK 47s you would see as they tried to hide them shoving them under blankets as the patrol's would pass.I can see how someone who is mentally ill could easily see these people as hostile a enemy. Id have to say the anxiety level you feel walking through there is extreme to say the least. And keep in mind i was only there for 3 weeks and I hated every time we had to go out into the village i cant tell you how scary that place was. Now this was like 6 years ago but Im sure it hasn't changed since its been that way for 100s of years. I blame the military on this you dont put someone whos mentally ill in that area it just feeds into the paranoia and the delusions.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

I just can't believe that people are shocked that deaths occur in war.

Sure, if this guy acted out, he deserves to be punished. If twenty acted out, then THEY deserve to be punished.

But you don't cancel the mission because of it.

Hell, if Obama was in place of Queen Isobella, Columbus would have never discovered America. (Someone might have gotten hurt)
If Obama was POTUS during the Challenger disaster, then he'd have scuttled the Shuttles then.

This is the "dodgeball" mentality. Can't do it because someone might get hurt!

You are a rude, callous, and uncaring individual.

So how about this, tonight while your sleeping, I'll kick down your door and kill your entire family before your eyes, and then kill you slowly.

If innocent people are killed, its wrong, no matter where they live.

See you later.

I haven't weighed in on this,as I am still collecting my thoughts. I had thought (hoped) the US Military was past having Ma Li incidents. That advances in training and (somewhat) better psychological testing and technicques used with an all volunteer force, would prevent this. Looks like NOT. I mean it's one thing when innocents die because a bomb missed a target or something.....but this stuff I hate...paints the whole country badly.

The inconsistancies I find though trouble me too.

Soldier in question was 38. While anyone can flip out, I would think (for numerous reasons) that a younger soldier with less experience (and possibly a loner) would be more likely to do this then a 38 year old with a family.

Soldier was a staff sgt. More training, obviously trusted, more intelligence, leadership position, likely better educated. People with these traits are less likely to do this. Not saying it prevents it of course.

Special Forces. The psych testing, training, and observations these guys get to just become a member is intense. Primarily to prevent just this sort of incident......While these men may "see" more, they are also better equiped for numerous reasons to deal with it.

The only thing that really even starts to make sense is the "brain injury" excuse, but that's flimsey, and what exactly happened? A concusion, or more severe trauma? I would have a hard time beleiving if it was a serious trama that he was even deemed medically qualified to go back to active combat service.

I am not a psychologist or forensic person, but this guy just doesn't seem to fit the profile, IMHO of who would do this.

HOWEVER and JUST SPECULATING.......... if more guys are involved, is there any reason to start thinking this was some sort of Spec Ops mission gone wrong? Could this have been a hit on a high value target, surrounded by women and children, that just spun out of control? How easy to blame a "brain injured nut", then say an OP went totally bad.

Or maybe it was intentional. Could the taliban, as a switch in tactics, been using women in leadership or otherwise high level roles, and we took them out??? EXTREMELY unlikely..........but this whole thing just doesn't seem to add up for me. And then to cover up that we hit a bunch of women (with their kids too) we concocted this story?


The whole thing is sad......yet still doesn't make sense.
Then again, maybe he just went bat poo crazy..........

Originally posted by Hendrix92TheUniverse


You are a rude, callous, and uncaring individual.

So how about this, tonight while your sleeping, I'll kick down your door and kill your entire family before your eyes, and then kill you slowly.

If innocent people are killed, its wrong, no matter where they live.

See you later.

Sorry you see me that way.
But this is war. People die.
If these16 died at the hands of an American soldier, unjustly? Then he will be punished.
I can assure you of that.
But we don't alter foreign policy because of it.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Hendrix92TheUniverse


You are a rude, callous, and uncaring individual.

So how about this, tonight while your sleeping, I'll kick down your door and kill your entire family before your eyes, and then kill you slowly.

If innocent people are killed, its wrong, no matter where they live.

See you later.

Sorry you see me that way.
But this is war. People die.
If these16 died at the hands of an American soldier, unjustly? Then he will be punished.
I can assure you of that.
But we don't alter foreign policy because of it.

The foreign policy is wrong, plain and simple.

Nation building is not what a Republic is supposed to be doing.

This war is doing nothing other than incite hatred towards America, and making us all less safe in the process.

Osama is dead, and his supposed terrorist network is in shambles amongst the other million people we killed.

And all of it was a lie. Most of the hijackers were Saudis. We lost over 5000 young men and women, and over 40,000 seriously wounded, maimed, and burnt.

For what!? A PACK OF GOD DAMN LIES.

But the military, and the defense contractors, and the nation building contractors love it.

The plunder of America, at the expense of hundreds of thousands of lives.

If this isn't evil, I don't know what is.

Do you check under your bed for terrorists before you go to sleep?

The real terrorist are running the U.S. into the ground for their corporate buddies.

And there is a mountain of evidence that shows that our "good" government knew that 911 was going to happen, just like they knew that Pearl Harbor was going to happen, just like Churchill knew that Coventry was going to happen.

They let Osama slip into Pakistan, so that they could justify going into Iraq.

First they tried to link Iraq to 911, that failed.
Then they tried to link Iraq to nuclear weaponry, that failed.
Remember Valerie Plame.
Then the settled on weapons of mass destruction, a new term then, and a bogus one at that.

How quickly we forget.

ARE WE GOING TO BE IN AFGHANISTAN UNTIL THEY HAVE A CIVILIZED SOCIETY?

LMFAO.

That means never, because those people have been fighting for thousands of years.

Let them live their own lives. I don't care if they choose life or death, as long as they aren't hurting me.

We got attacked on 911, and used that to attack any country who we didn't like, pure and simple.

IT IS HIGH TIME WE CHOOSE PEACE AND MIND OUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS.

Originally posted by Hendrix92TheUniverse


IT IS HIGH TIME WE CHOOSE PEACE AND MIND OUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS.

This I can agree with.

reply to post by purplemer


I believe it was no more than 15 soldiers involved and I don't believe they were drunk!

Originally posted by MainLineThis
Reply to post by purplemer

 

We should just get out of that country and let them go back to being toothless mud but living religious morons.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Dude, you realize this was in Afghanistan and not the American south, right?

I know that having oil-rich regions full of religious extremists in the US makes things confusing sometimes.

It looks like they wanted to kill them, maybe they know about their digs and their escavations? Wonder where these villages are? But they killed these people, and had to have had a reason, and then set someone up for the fall.

Because I agree, one person couldn't have done that.

Originally posted by beezzer
Whether it was one or twenty or two hundred, it doesn't matter.
Somehow, this horrible act, has triggered an event where we are actually thinking about leaving Afghanistan early.

Yes. It was a terrible thing.

But to use it as a fulcrum for the entire operation in Afghanistan is insane.

This just shows how "uncommited" our spineless leaders are. Want to leave? Fine.

Just don't use this as an excuse. It makes us look weak.
*bah*
I'm disgusted by the whole thing!
*throws hands in disgust*

It's kind of hard to continue the operation there if Karzai kicks the troops out of the villages.