Total deaths caused by direct US actions in the world compared to total US deaths by terror...

Does anybody want to see the facts or will this be dismissed as anti-american hate?

Well I don't think we need to dig up the numbers for us to realize that the US has a way higher kill count as they have been going since they satred on the native americans and are happily continuing to this day...

And these are all innocent, unarmed civiliains

US total kills : in the millions surely. They have had 200 odd years to clock up this impressive total....

Terror kills against US: few thousands at best. Only really started with the occupation of Saudi Arabia or not?

Bottom line... no moral argument what-so-ever... NONE, NADA, NULL

That's a bit irrational. Of course the US has plenty more kills than terrorists. We were the main fighting force on the Western front during WWII.

Comparing historical war kills to terrorist kills is comparing apples and oranges. Those people we killed during war were shooting back, you know.

Coming from you it will be taken for exactly what it is....historical revisionism of the most vile kind.....


Don�t waste your time...or ours....

I was amost going to say.... no those are "legit" kills... the ones I was counting were the ones involving target normally reserved for terror... landless peasants, in El Salvador and East Timor for example... allthough Timor was not DIRECT... the US supported Suhartos purges there.

No no this kill-count was to include only "soft" targets, just like the ones the are attacked by terrorists.

Suggesting of course the "un-suggestable" THAT THE US IS THE BIGGEST TERRORIST OUT THERE!!!

Originally posted by Corinthas
Does anybody want to see the facts or will this be dismissed as anti-american hate?

It will be dismissed as anti-American hate...

Originally posted by Corinthas
And these are all innocent, unarmed civiliains

And, it will be dismissed as that because of the above statement. If you believe that all people that have been killed by direct American action are unarmed, innocent civilians then you are seriously mis-guided.

Originally posted by Corinthas
US total kills : in the millions surely. They have had 200 odd years to clock up this impressive total....

Terror kills against US: few thousands at best. Only really started with the occupation of Saudi Arabia or not?

Some stats and links would have been nice although I don't doubt you, but...

Originally posted by Corinthas
Bottom line... no moral argument what-so-ever... NONE, NADA, NULL

If this is a moral arguement, and it is, they surely INTENT is important. Every terrorist action without question, in its very nature, is intended to do evil things to its victim. Can this be said about EVERY American action? As far as this thread goes there is no moral aruguement whatsoever... NONE, NADA, NULL

Revisionist?!?!


It's your country that wont use the word HOLOCAUST to describe what happened to the American Natives.

Yeah just lable me, and *poof* there goes my argument... you got to teach me these debating skills of yours I am sure they will come in handy when I want to "revise" some more history

well to be fair the us's has killed more lives than has been taken against them but the death count dosnt reflect anything as when terrorists take live's there is no barrier between terrorists and there victims but when a blow is dealt back to the terrorist there is a barrier of civilians before u get the terrorists , which is a reason why u cant say america is doin more harm than good

i dont agree with what america is doing nor do i disagree i just feel there are factors than spin of some crazy numbers agaisnt whats goin on

Originally posted by Corinthas
I was amost going to say.... no those are "legit" kills... the ones I was counting were the ones involving target normally reserved for terror... landless peasants, in El Salvador and East Timor for example... allthough Timor was not DIRECT... the US supported Suhartos purges there.

The ones you counted? You counted nothing you simply made an uniformed guess.

Originally posted by Corinthas
No no this kill-count was to include only "soft" targets, just like the ones the are attacked by terrorists.

Like I said there was no count. Provide some LINKS, maybe even make an educated, researched estimate rather then say "err, gotta be in the millions ain't it?"

By your way of counting I think the US comes in a very distant sixth place far behind China, Russia, Germany, France, Great Britain and these are only contemporary countries. If you want to go back in history we can start with the mongols and run right up to the ottoman empire.

when you have finished reforming the first five - give us a call eh!

found this link:

www.therationalradical.com...

now, as much as i hate to say it, according to this definition, the US has actually engaged in what would be considered Terrorism occasionally. not often, and without a significant number of casualties, but compared to the rest of the world's terrorist groups, nowhere close. all but a few actions on the US's part involving civilian deaths has been military-on-military or military-on-guerilla warfare. there have been very few times the US has ever attacked civilians, and even fewer, un-armed civilains, but mistakes happen, otherwise, how would one account for friendly fire, accidentally hitting the wrong target with a missle, etc?

facts can be easily construed to mean whatever the compiler wants them to mean simply by adding a title to the collection of said facts. the numbers may be accurate for whatever you read, but they may not necessarily be the numbers they say they are, they may not necessarily pertain to the events in question.

Originally posted by Corinthas
Does anybody want to see the facts or will this be dismissed as anti-american hate?

Well I don't think we need to dig up the numbers for us to realize that the US has a way higher kill count as they have been going since they satred on the native americans and are happily continuing to this day...

And these are all innocent, unarmed civiliains

US total kills : in the millions surely. They have had 200 odd years to clock up this impressive total....

Yes, if only one could bring back all those poor nazis, and those harmless redcoats killed during the revolution.

Whats the sense of comparing these numbers? The US has fought entire world wars, these terrorists haven't, they are very small in number, and they have only be very active for a while. If you converted the numbers to make them proportional, you'd see an entirely different story.

Bottom line... no moral argument what-so-ever... NONE, NADA, NULL

Fighting facists and dictators is the same as kidnapping truckers and cutting them in two?

these are all innocent, unarmed civiliains

B/S. Present something to back up this 'millions' assesment.

Originally posted by Phoenix
By your way of counting I think the US comes in a very distant sixth place far behind China, Russia, Germany, France, Great Britain and these are only contemporary countries. when you have finished reforming the first five - give us a call eh!

I love revisonist Historians. Phoenix You raise a great point. All of those countries committed the same levels as the United States. Gengis Khan was not all that warm and fuzzy either. Given the tone of the post, one has to wonder if its simply flame bait for more points?????

Nice thread, so many to justify US when it causes death.

But no to many has the guts to point out something like you did, corinthas.

And not deaths by US or on US soil are justify.

Nevermind.

[edit on 20-9-2004 by curme]

There is not much difference with the US killing people than other people doing it, only that the US people consider themselves above this sort of violence.

If you could stand by your words surely you would not eat a mcdonalds or drive your car because oil is a resourse we murder and beef is land that we take from south american countries.

So spare me the fury the moral citizens of the US. We are not the sun in the darkness of the universe, we are the darkness just like everyone else. The sun is an ideal, a dream called america.

"too philisophical" My bad.

Originally posted by marg6043
Nice thread, so many to justify US when it causes death.
But no to many has the guts to point out something like you did, corinthas.
And not deaths by US or on US soil are justify.

Oh Marg, you so need to get a grip. Someone who seems to have an intersting take on the course of human events posts what could at best be desrcibed as flame bait. You roll on in call it courageous. Wars between nations have occured since the dawn of civilization. The US is no more different than any other. People are more likely attacking the ignorance of the posted premise more than anything else.

Originally posted by Corinthas
Revisionist?!?!

It's your country that wont use the word HOLOCAUST to describe what happened to the American Natives.

Yeah just lable me, and *poof* there goes my argument... you got to teach me these debating skills of yours I am sure they will come in handy when I want to "revise" some more history

You have a valid, post worthy subject, that is research worthy, has volumes of information out there on it, and yet you hurl it out there to be picked apart too easily by the jingoistic "Can't fault AMURICA!" crowd. Look, I'm sorry for whooping up on you, because I've read demographic reports that do support your argument of sickeningly high civilian/non-combatant death counts ( as we see in Iraq since Gulf War I *hint, hint hint*)by America, but if you don't reference any of the data, you're as bad as any Right Winger.

We have won every war that we have fought ... except for Korea and even that one we have killed many a person. You know why ?

Because the Japanese bombed us at Pearl Harbor so you are d*** right we are going to fight back and we are going to DESTROY anything that stands in our way. If we haven't proven that then by all means attack us. You see people like Chechen rebels attack Russia and they offer 10 Million dollars for people to get information. You notice U.S. doesn't do that ... it is because we are smart and realized that you have to have intellegence to survive. Therefore, we have the most intelectual country in the world. We are so intellectual that people hate us, because we are so real. We tell you what we think, well most of the time we will there are those YANKS and there is Kerry who changes his mind depending on the crowd and what other people think at the time.

My response to you on this thread will suffice for my reply on this matter. We by far aren't the bloodiest nation.

How can we call facts that you don't even state, anti-American? You lose your argument immediately without such inconvenient things as facts. On top of that your reputation for being blindly anti-American, as much as some here are blindly patriotic, doesn't help you with most folks. And that's too bad because you do bring up some valid points, they're just overshadowed by your strong rhetoric that's fueled by distinctively European styled anti-American propaganda. Propaganda isn't a one way street, and us "ignorant Americans" aren't the only people subject to it.

The US has done some horrible things. I'll admit that. It's true, most of us don't, or won't see it. If we did Americans wouldn't stand for it. We're not a blood thirsty nation. It took an assault on Pearl Harbor for us to support entrance in WWII; a major terrorist attack and lies for Iraq, both I and II; a sunk Lusitania and the Zimmermann Note to get us into WWI; and The Gulf of Tonkin incident for Vietnam. These are telling facts that Americans need much justification to go to war. As a whole America is a peaceful nation. Some of our leaders, however, are not.

The Indian "holocaust" was started by European settlers long before America was even a thought. Remember? That doesn't make it right, but the actions were taking place by our European ancestors long, long before George Washington was even alive. Indians slaughtered peaceful settlements including women and children too. Not always in response to their land being taken either.

Edit: Spelling

[edit on (9/20/0404 by PistolPete]

Originally posted by FredT

Oh Marg, you so need to get a grip. Someone who seems to have an intersting take on the course of human events posts what could at best be desrcibed as flame bait. You roll on in call it courageous. Wars between nations have occured since the dawn of civilization. The US is no more different than any other. People are more likely attacking the ignorance of the posted premise more than anything else.

I guess you just went direct to my name did not even read what I posted, you know it most be my avatars what it attract people so much to my post when more posters here had stronger views than mine.

That's ok no harm done and not bad feeling fredy