Secret Space Program: Richard Dolan [Full Length]

Since Dolan makes it clear he bases much of his argument on reliance on testimony of Clark McClelland and Jeff Challender about spaceflight anomalies, wouldn't it be productive to examine whether such testimony is really credible? And if it's not credible [and I don't think it is], it might have some relevance to the credibility of Dolan's conclusions based on it, nicht wahr?

Is that a useful methodology? Or is evidence-avoidance and generalizing/handwaving the better path to follow?

Originally posted by Unity_99
Excellent thread. Starred and flagged.

I'll watch the longer video soon, did begin it, but wanted to include this which offers really good sound reasoning.

The Secret Space Program (Amsterdam April 2011)

Its not logical to even assume this isn't real and the way it is.

I watched this. I found it an interesting overview of the event. A series of quick interviews with the people who were featured and those who attended the 2011 Amsterdam event.

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
reply to post by Unity_99

 

Thanks for posting that mate, additionally there's also another video from this event with Timothy Good, who is someone else I tend to hold a high regard for within the UFO scene:

I've been meaning to read "Confessions..." for over a year now, you've just motivated me to do so

I watched this too. The Dolan presentation was so much better -- Dolan is a better speaker, better organized.
That's not to say Timothy Good didn't have interesting info, he did. Some I would definitely follow up on -- some of it is waaaay out there.

I only have one book by Timothy Good -- "Alien Contact" -- that I read many years ago. As I recall, it did not make much of an impact on me at the time. I should take another look -- I have grown a bit in the intervening years.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Needless to say, none of this is true.

Indeed.

Anyone who does some research into the physics of orbits can see that changing the orbital inclination from 51.6 degrees to 70 degrees is ludicrous.....unless there is a magic Star Trek-style Impulse Engine mounted on the ISS that they didn't tell us about!

But for Dolan, Challender was the go-to-guy space expert, as Hoagland is his go-to-guy Mars expert.

And as he explained in the video, he has no problem believing that WW2 escaped Nazis really are part of the 'breakway civilization' hiding in underground bases.

The intellectual company he keeps is the ultimate verdict on his own credibility, seems to me.

By that token does that mean Mother Teresa, by association was poor, sick, orphaned, and perpetually in a state of destitution? I'm not sure I'd hang someone for who they associate with.

Since Dolan makes it clear he bases much of his argument on reliance on testimony of Clark McClelland and Jeff Challender about spaceflight anomalies, wouldn't it be productive to examine whether such testimony is really credible? And if it's not credible [and I don't think it is], it might have some relevance to the credibility of Dolan's conclusions based on it

Out of curiosity, can you cite an example from one of Dolan's books where he draws on McClelland or Challender? Flipping through 'UFOs and the National Security State' I don't see anything by Challender or McClelland in the bibliography or the index.

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by OldCurmudgeon

 

I criticized your support of Dolan, as many have done on this thread since it's easy to see through him, and also your support of UFOs as ET craft coming here from who knows where in the universe without any evidence to support such a POV. It's no big deal for those who are criticized to reply as you did, that's what gives this forum the "vitality" it enjoys.

We see life through different eyes and there's always a fork in our road.

If I hurt your feelings, I apologize.

Very well said, we all see all through different eyes, with different minds, and slightly at different times... lol... and of course Kermit the Frog made the 'fork n the road' famous.... lol ...
BTW... I certainly wish I could either prove or disprove UFOs... or ghosts, or monsters or any of many curiosities... but alas, there is no proof for that...
No apoligies necessary my new friend... and trust me, my feelings aren't hurt... I learned long ago to be a straight shooter and speak my mind and in turn fully expect honesty and truth in response...
Of course, at my age I always have to see where I left my mind... lol
So, no harm, no foul my friend... let us hope you and I are who can claim to fame having proved or disproved UFOs... then we'll write books and go on the road to lecture and make some buckaroos... lol

Originally posted by OldCurmudgeon

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by OldCurmudgeon

 

I criticized your support of Dolan, as many have done on this thread since it's easy to see through him, and also your support of UFOs as ET craft coming here from who knows where in the universe without any evidence to support such a POV. It's no big deal for those who are criticized to reply as you did, that's what gives this forum the "vitality" it enjoys.

We see life through different eyes and there's always a fork in our road.

If I hurt your feelings, I apologize.

Very well said, we all see all through different eyes, with different minds, and slightly at different times... lol... and of course Kermit the Frog made the 'fork n the road' famous.... lol ...
BTW... I certainly wish I could either prove or disprove UFOs... or ghosts, or monsters or any of many curiosities... but alas, there is no proof for that...
No apoligies necessary my new friend... and trust me, my feelings aren't hurt... I learned long ago to be a straight shooter and speak my mind and in turn fully expect honesty and truth in response...
Of course, at my age I always have to see where I left my mind... lol
So, no harm, no foul my friend... let us hope you and I are who can claim to fame having proved or disproved UFOs... then we'll write books and go on the road to lecture and make some buckaroos... lol

Well, I never felt that I had to prove or disprove UFOs as something was going on and UFOs were the biggest mystery we all shared. Since I was never a believer, I just wondered if I would ever have the wished-for experience and I did, in spades! I have had 5 or 6 wonderful, SOLID sightings and I videotaped one ("New York City's Central Park UFO Filmed, June 2004" - www.ufocasebook.com...). Once you have an unquestionable daylight sighting of something you know cannot be a human-made aerial object defying known aeronautical "laws", you become a member of a special club.

reply to post by Zcustosmorum



Thx for posting this..

I thought it was pretty dull, when he referenced Hoagland I lost interest.

I listened to the whole thing and as others have pointed out he didn't really say anything we don't already know/think..

No offence meant 2u, IMO it was boring...

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by OldCurmudgeon

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by OldCurmudgeon

 

I criticized your support of Dolan, as many have done on this thread since it's easy to see through him, and also your support of UFOs as ET craft coming here from who knows where in the universe without any evidence to support such a POV. It's no big deal for those who are criticized to reply as you did, that's what gives this forum the "vitality" it enjoys.

We see life through different eyes and there's always a fork in our road.

If I hurt your feelings, I apologize.

Very well said, we all see all through different eyes, with different minds, and slightly at different times... lol... and of course Kermit the Frog made the 'fork n the road' famous.... lol ...
BTW... I certainly wish I could either prove or disprove UFOs... or ghosts, or monsters or any of many curiosities... but alas, there is no proof for that...
No apoligies necessary my new friend... and trust me, my feelings aren't hurt... I learned long ago to be a straight shooter and speak my mind and in turn fully expect honesty and truth in response...
Of course, at my age I always have to see where I left my mind... lol
So, no harm, no foul my friend... let us hope you and I are who can claim to fame having proved or disproved UFOs... then we'll write books and go on the road to lecture and make some buckaroos... lol

Well, I never felt that I had to prove or disprove UFOs as something was going on and UFOs were the biggest mystery we all shared. Since I was never a believer, I just wondered if I would ever have the wished-for experience and I did, in spades! I have had 5 or 6 wonderful, SOLID sightings and I videotaped one ("New York City's Central Park UFO Filmed, June 2004" - www.ufocasebook.com...). Once you have an unquestionable daylight sighting of something you know cannot be a human-made aerial object defying known aeronautical "laws", you become a member of a special club.

Thanks Shrike... awesome photos... AWESOME... I don't own software to enlarge it... but it is an awesome picture... and you one upped me friend... as I too believe in extra terrestrial craft as I also have seen a craft, once up close as it come very low level, +/- 500 off the ground, zigging and zagging as if looking for something at speeds between 0 mph, as it appeared more than once to pause in the air, then as it if rotated in place it left in another direction, e.g. 45 degrees off the way it came to the point, then continue on sometimes reaching the speed of a cessna (between 90 and 100 mph)... and after it appeared to have completed its search area, I would estimate 3/4 to 1 mile wide and about a mile long, it raised straight into the air slowly paused for about 5 seconds and then moved off at a 45 degree vertical angle into the clear blue sky achieving a remarkable speed before disappearing from site.
Now I am most family with F4s, F15s, F16s and FA18 SuperHornets, and have riden in many of the helicopters made and sat in some really cool ones(I live 3 miles away from where Boeing manufactures Apaches and Cheyennes) and
I am totally familiar with watching these aircraft take off, land and perform maneuvers up to and including FAB climbs and level flight... Whatever I saw, it left in a bit of a hurry... accelerating from a mere 100 mph to a speed I have never seen other than a bullet travel away from the end of a rifle barrel pointing into a blue sky... and appeared at a half way to being out of sight to instantly accelerate to 10 or maybe 100 times its current speed.
I simply would love to be the one to prove to the naysayers the craft are a fact... personally, I don't care if blue green algae is flying it... lol
OK... now everyone can label me nutso... lol
Again... stars for ya... and great pictures... great pictures.... some of the best definition of the craft I have seen...

UFO Conferences are very poorly presented these days, & the Dolan hr. long video was a poor presentation.

He also seems to be a presenter of other peoples stuff. His rap was a drift net approach making a massive mess of this secret space program.

His total reliance on Jeff Chal.s Project Prove site is dumb as Jeff was way out there. I talked to him a lot & he told me that most of his footage came from someone else. And he advised people to call Martyn Stubbs, who had inspired his work

. Stubbs says that Jeff sent him a full copy of his website before he died, along with all his individual master discs.

......so Dolan was wrong to say he is the only person in the world with a copy.....

He made it up...like so much of his weak presentation. He is a terrible source for a spokesperson re: any secret space program! Amsterdam must be crazy...Martyn Stubbs would have been much better guest . After all, he started all this with his NASA UFO discoveries & has an ongoing research group he works with.Just check out his You Tube Channel under "secretnasaman"...Dolan didn't!

hmmmmm. I agree fully with the dragnet comment about, him just re-hashing other peoples work.

Made me laugh at one point. He's talking about the secret puppet masters, the elite, and he refers to them as 'we', then corrects himself to 'they'.

Seems like the kind of slip-up a dis-info agent might make eh

Originally posted by OldCurmudgeon

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by OldCurmudgeon

 

Well, I never felt that I had to prove or disprove UFOs as something was going on and UFOs were the biggest mystery we all shared. Since I was never a believer, I just wondered if I would ever have the wished-for experience and I did, in spades! I have had 5 or 6 wonderful, SOLID sightings and I videotaped one ("New York City's Central Park UFO Filmed, June 2004" - www.ufocasebook.com...). Once you have an unquestionable daylight sighting of something you know cannot be a human-made aerial object defying known aeronautical "laws", you become a member of a special club.

Thanks Shrike... awesome photos... AWESOME... I don't own software to enlarge it... but it is an awesome picture... and you one upped me friend... as I too believe in extra terrestrial craft as I also have seen a craft, once up close as it come very low level, +/- 500 off the ground, zigging and zagging as if looking for something at speeds between 0 mph, as it appeared more than once to pause in the air, then as it if rotated in place it left in another direction, e.g. 45 degrees off the way it came to the point, then continue on sometimes reaching the speed of a cessna (between 90 and 100 mph)... and after it appeared to have completed its search area, I would estimate 3/4 to 1 mile wide and about a mile long, it raised straight into the air slowly paused for about 5 seconds and then moved off at a 45 degree vertical angle into the clear blue sky achieving a remarkable speed before disappearing from site.
Now I am most family with F4s, F15s, F16s and FA18 SuperHornets, and have riden in many of the helicopters made and sat in some really cool ones(I live 3 miles away from where Boeing manufactures Apaches and Cheyennes) and
I am totally familiar with watching these aircraft take off, land and perform maneuvers up to and including FAB climbs and level flight... Whatever I saw, it left in a bit of a hurry... accelerating from a mere 100 mph to a speed I have never seen other than a bullet travel away from the end of a rifle barrel pointing into a blue sky... and appeared at a half way to being out of sight to instantly accelerate to 10 or maybe 100 times its current speed.
I simply would love to be the one to prove to the naysayers the craft are a fact... personally, I don't care if blue green algae is flying it... lol
OK... now everyone can label me nutso... lol
Again... stars for ya... and great pictures... great pictures.... some of the best definition of the craft I have seen...

I'll tell you about acceleration! My 2nd sighting was at night while living in L.A. and sighted from the apartment building's dark pool area and it involved 3 "stars" widely spaced in a vertical row, seeing them through zoom (7-15X) binoculars at the wide (7X)setting. (My 1st sighting was through zoom binoculars of a low "craft" just sitting a few hundred feet off the ground and behaving as if it was sitting on a calm sea being affected by gentle waves.) Seeing the 3 "stars" I was attracted by their "straight line" but you can always find such a pattern. As I started to move my binocs to look at other parts of the sky I saw the first "star" haul off at a tremendous speed towards the south, followed by the middle "star" and then the bottom "star". That kind of acceleration cannot be imagined even by the best pilot! I was awestruck!

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by OldCurmudgeon

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by OldCurmudgeon

 

Well, I never felt that I had to prove or disprove UFOs as something was going on and UFOs were the biggest mystery we all shared. Since I was never a believer, I just wondered if I would ever have the wished-for experience and I did, in spades! I have had 5 or 6 wonderful, SOLID sightings and I videotaped one ("New York City's Central Park UFO Filmed, June 2004" - www.ufocasebook.com...). Once you have an unquestionable daylight sighting of something you know cannot be a human-made aerial object defying known aeronautical "laws", you become a member of a special club.

Thanks Shrike... awesome photos... AWESOME... I don't own software to enlarge it... but it is an awesome picture... and you one upped me friend... as I too believe in extra terrestrial craft as I also have seen a craft, once up close as it come very low level, +/- 500 off the ground, zigging and zagging as if looking for something at speeds between 0 mph, as it appeared more than once to pause in the air, then as it if rotated in place it left in another direction, e.g. 45 degrees off the way it came to the point, then continue on sometimes reaching the speed of a cessna (between 90 and 100 mph)... and after it appeared to have completed its search area, I would estimate 3/4 to 1 mile wide and about a mile long, it raised straight into the air slowly paused for about 5 seconds and then moved off at a 45 degree vertical angle into the clear blue sky achieving a remarkable speed before disappearing from site.
Now I am most family with F4s, F15s, F16s and FA18 SuperHornets, and have riden in many of the helicopters made and sat in some really cool ones(I live 3 miles away from where Boeing manufactures Apaches and Cheyennes) and
I am totally familiar with watching these aircraft take off, land and perform maneuvers up to and including FAB climbs and level flight... Whatever I saw, it left in a bit of a hurry... accelerating from a mere 100 mph to a speed I have never seen other than a bullet travel away from the end of a rifle barrel pointing into a blue sky... and appeared at a half way to being out of sight to instantly accelerate to 10 or maybe 100 times its current speed.
I simply would love to be the one to prove to the naysayers the craft are a fact... personally, I don't care if blue green algae is flying it... lol
OK... now everyone can label me nutso... lol
Again... stars for ya... and great pictures... great pictures.... some of the best definition of the craft I have seen...

I'll tell you about acceleration! My 2nd sighting was at night while living in L.A. and sighted from the apartment building's dark pool area and it involved 3 "stars" widely spaced in a vertical row, seeing them through zoom (7-15X) binoculars at the wide (7X)setting. (My 1st sighting was through zoom binoculars of a low "craft" just sitting a few hundred feet off the ground and behaving as if it was sitting on a calm sea being affected by gentle waves.) Seeing the 3 "stars" I was attracted by their "straight line" but you can always find such a pattern. As I started to move my binocs to look at other parts of the sky I saw the first "star" haul off at a tremendous speed towards the south, followed by the middle "star" and then the bottom "star". That kind of acceleration cannot be imagined even by the best pilot! I was awestruck!

Awestruck is the word... being an avid sportsman and hunter I have seen the fastest bullets leave a gun barrel and watched it fly... and this thing I saw, well, left me awestruck as you said... If I were forced to guess, I say it must have been... mmmmmm going more than 10k mph... I've seen several rockets sent aloft and this thing blew them away in initial acceleration and total speed...

Originally posted by JimOberg

Since Dolan makes it clear he bases much of his argument on reliance on testimony of Clark McClelland and Jeff Challender about spaceflight anomalies,

Bzzzzzzt. You can't back this statement since it is, and my bet is you know it, entirely untrue.

I don't respect you, few on ATS do that are sensible and of reasonable mind, and this kind of blatant lying is exactly why.

Originally posted by Seconal

Originally posted by JimOberg

Since Dolan makes it clear he bases much of his argument on reliance on testimony of Clark McClelland and Jeff Challender about spaceflight anomalies,

Bzzzzzzt. You can't back this statement since it is, and my bet is you know it, entirely untrue.

I don't respect you, few on ATS do that are sensible and of reasonable mind, and this kind of blatant lying is exactly why.

Let's resurrect one of the threads on each of them and reopen the debate, if you like. Jeff's enthusiasm masked a torrent of misunderstandings of basic spaceflight principles and practices, such as the 'Zone of Exclusion'.

And Clark had his own crop of tall tales -- about people he claimed to have met [most of them now conveniently dead], and about his own career [such as his counterfeit 'bueiness card' about 'shuttle fleet'] -- that can easily be shown to be at variance with all other records and testimony. Best example: he claims to have personally seen astronaut Story Musgrave meeting with a 12-foot alien aboard a secret space shuttle mission, an event which Musgrave seems to have retained no memory about, whatsover. Whom do you want to believe?

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Seconal

Originally posted by JimOberg

Since Dolan makes it clear he bases much of his argument on reliance on testimony of Clark McClelland and Jeff Challender about spaceflight anomalies,

Bzzzzzzt. You can't back this statement since it is, and my bet is you know it, entirely untrue.

I don't respect you, few on ATS do that are sensible and of reasonable mind, and this kind of blatant lying is exactly why.

Let's resurrect one of the threads on each of them and reopen the debate, if you like. Jeff's enthusiasm (snipped irrelevant BS)

Conspicuous attempt to redirect, Jimmy. See above re: lack of respect.

"Since Dolan makes it clear he bases much of his argument on reliance on testimony of Clark McClelland and Jeff Challender about spaceflight anomalies" is your blatant lie and, again, you know that.

Originally posted by Seconal
Conspicuous attempt to redirect, Jimmy. See above re: lack of respect.

"Since Dolan makes it clear he bases much of his argument on reliance on testimony of Clark McClelland and Jeff Challender about spaceflight anomalies" is your blatant lie and, again, you know that.

I watched the OP's video. After an hour or so of rambling 'background', when he starts talking about the 'secret space program', they are among his most important references. He says so himself. How am I misunderstanding or misrepresenting him?

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Seconal
Conspicuous attempt to redirect, Jimmy. See above re: lack of respect.

"Since Dolan makes it clear he bases much of his argument on reliance on testimony of Clark McClelland and Jeff Challender about spaceflight anomalies" is your blatant lie and, again, you know that.

I watched the OP's video. After an hour or so of rambling 'background', when he starts talking about the 'secret space program', they are among his most important references. He says so himself. How am I misunderstanding or misrepresenting him?

There was more than one video.

Sorry, not biting, troll on, NASABoi.

For Dolan fans and others...

Spectrum Radio Richard dolan Feb 2012

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Zcustosmorum

 

Done a search ....

Well, before investing over an hour and a half into your OP video, I also "done a search" into Mr. Richard Dolan.

Not sure what to make, now.....whether to waste the time. Perhaps the inevitable parts where he is adjusting the screen, being introduced, etc, can be skipped over? Care to boil it down, since you've watched the whole thing (I presume)?

Anyway, a bit of what research "I done":

His training as a historian is solid – he has an undergraduate degree in history from Alfred University, a small liberal arts college in New York, and a Masters degree in history from the University of Rochester, where he also lives and works.

That impresses people....but only up to a point:

With this in mind, an objective read of UFOs and the National Security State, on which Dolan’s reputation in the UFO field as a serious researcher is largely based, shows it to be nothing more than conspiracy theory masquerading as a serious historical study.

Uh, oh.

Summation:

That Dolan is considered one of the Top 100 ufologists is not surprising, given where modern ufology seems to be headed (and that’s a shame, especially when researchers like Manitoba’s Chris Rutkowski didn’t make the list). But don’t confuse him with an objective historian, at least where the UFO phenomenon is concerned. He isn’t.

Source, from a blog article...(yeah, I know, I know]....."The Other Side of Truth"

edit on Thu 23 February 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)

Before knocking the man, I think maybe you should watch the video in the OP.

It's not all about UFO's.
Richard Dolan is an Historian and a very good researcher.
Like everyone. He doesn't get everything right but in my opinion, he is very knowledgable.

What a treasure Richard Dolan is!