So,I have my daughters phone now,the fun begins

I dont think you are in the wrong.

Personally though a 13 yr old imo doesn't need an iPhone. It's not a toy and what does a 13 yr old need a cell phone for? I had a phone in my room in HS and that was it, no cell til I could buy one myself.

If you are paying the bill it's your property and you have a right to go through it. I don't know why people say she will hate you and all that crap. My mom did the same things and i don't hate her, she kept us out of trouble by knowing what we were doing and i think MORE parents need to know what their teens are doing!

I see TOO many teens out there this age and i am amazed at how they dress, talk and act. I have friends with kids this age and their friends make my jaw drop. I am only 33 and 13yr olds were not like that when I was 13, I still played with Barbie not cell phones and text messaging.

I think you made a good decision where most parents wouldn't even do anything and believe me I have seen it and then they wonder why their teens runs the house and not them.

I haven't read this whole thread because my god it's long lol but I think you did the right thing and good luck with everything! I know she is probably dying without her iPhone. Im an adult and I voluntarily gave up my iPhone and it was hard!



on a side not in general.....to parents with teens.

Why do parents today buy such expensive tech gadgets for their kids? I am really curious because what kids want today compared to when I was a kid are things I would have been told i could get when i was an adult and could buy it myself. Now kids get cell phones, laptops, computers, tablets and so on. I can see cell phones maybe for contact with family but fancy iPhones and smart phones for kids?

reply to post by ThirdRock69




Your point

"Once you're an actual parent it's totally different situation. You will hear it time and time again

FROM REAL PARENTS"


Well there IS proof of this as in my post on page 10 of this thread

Hey Kdog,
Taking her phone was perfectly fine and that's where fine ends. Parents are giving their kids too much rope to hang themselves with. A phone is fine, a simple phone...no web, no texting. At the very least when you give your child a phone you tell them it's not a toy and there are dangers and that from time to time you will be looking through to make sure they're safe from predators.

Posing as her and talking to 13 year old boys? No, sorry...that was wrong and creepy. Maybe you didn't think of it that way at the time but it was. I hope it all works out okay for you. My advice would be to not give your daughter the upper hand by asking for forgiveness but you can still apologize and tell her that you did the right thing taking her phone for her behavior but you shouldn't have talked to her friends and that parents can occasionally make mistakes too.

reply to post by doubledutch

you don't even have children

please explain why this is relevant

especially since there have been many posts in this thread coming from actual parents that thought the OP made a huge mistake

do you honestly believe that parents are wiser just because they're parents?

you would have to argue then that anything any parent did would be the right thing to do - how could it not be?

they're a parent - they're infallible - right?

reply to post by ThirdRock69

But it is actually a reality that parents need to be very concerned about these days. OK

I hope this puts things in perspective and back to the reality of the situation at hand.

then let's put this thing back in perspective

So,I have my daughters phone now,the fun begins

the fun? his first concern is not about protecting his daughter - it's about messing with her - and her friends

Am I out of line or being a protective carrying parent.

why is he asking - he's a parent - isn't everything he does - as a parent - OK?

reply to post by sonnny1

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by 1littlewolf


You really think so? You honestly think that even if they had found guns etc in their kid’s rooms that they couldn’t and wouldn’t have gone ahead with the massacre any way?

I guess if they found pipe bombs,their journals,the plans they left lying around,maybe they would have KNOWN their was a serious problem. Yes,I think the massacre would have been stopped. Although,it is possible for good parents to raise a murder.

Look, I haven’t looked into the finer details of the columbine massacre so I don’t know where they hid these weapons, assuming anybody does at all. I know if I were planning a massacre at my high school I sure as hell wouldn’t leave the evidence in my room.


However you have to think this thing through logically. Do you seriously expect parents to turn their kids room over randomly every week or so on the off chance they’re gonna be involved in a schoolyard massacre? Is this what you do with your kids…..?


“Look sweetie, I’m just gonna go through everything you own including your underwear drawer and your personal diaries because I’m kinda concerned you may be planning to shoot dozens of people at your local high school.”


Really…..


I am a parent and I would much rather create an environment where my children trust me and feel they can come to me about anything. You create an atmosphere of mistrust and you may well be cutting your child off from the one person who they should be ableto go to about anything. You. And this is probably why these parents were to blame. Not because they failed to pry through all their kids personal belongings, but because their kids were unable to reach out to them at a time when they probably most needed them.

Think of this.....

The question of guilt — were the parents guilty? should we blame them? — led me to write a cover story for the New York Times Magazine six months after Columbine, at a time when polls showed 85 percent of Americans held the parents responsible for the shooters’ acts, and when lawsuits were being filed against the families of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold by the families of the 12 students and one teacher who the boys killed, and the dozens more that they injured.

Do We Blame the Columbine Parents?




Thats a lot of parents searching for answers.......

The article you link to suggests the parents did everything they could do, so this really doesn’t help your argument and suggests to me you are merely bringing up the most sensational example possible in order to attempt to prove your point.


One of the two was depressed and easily led. The other was a pysochopath. There’s really not much you can do if you have a psychopath as a child, but if you a have a child who is simply depressed then do you really thin invading his or her privacy constantly will make them feel any better about the world?

Again,OP has his way of doing things. I am sitting here right now with my daughter. She totally understands,that what I do,is for her own good. A open relationship with your children is the best thing. She knows plenty of her friends,that their parents can give a rats ass about what they do,and with who.If I want to check my kids iPhone,she hands it to me. Isn't that the respect you folks who are clamoring " that a kids going to rebel if you invade their privacy",want ? . Protecting your children should be a priority. Its too bad people put rules to stigmatize a parent,when they do it. Some psychological know it alls,who believe that its going to blow up in a parents face......


BTW,thanks for at least addressing the question........

Look, taking her phone is completely reasonable, reading her messages is really going a bit far but I do not believe it is the end of the world as this is probably what most people would do, but impersonating her and making her look like a fool in front of her friends is really over stepping the mark. How long is this gonna take her to live down when she is at an age where her friends are her entire identity?


I’m sure you’re a wonderful father but just consider this. Do you really think your daughter will leave any evidence of doing an activity which she knows you disapprove when she knows you could look at her phone at anytime? I doubt it.

I was a rebellious teen with snooping parents who although I loved I certainly did not trust. They busted me for a few things, but I got away with so much more simply because I hid it so well from them.

Many of those actions I now regret. If I’d been able to approach them about certain things then and gotten their advice I honestly think I probably would have got into half as much trouble as I did.

reply to post by ThirdRock69


one more thing...

I don't care how many of you think it's a false.

you don't care that we think the claim is false - interesting

so - being worried is justification for doing anything you want - even if it's wrong? I guess then that claiming you were were worried would work just as well

But it is actually a reality that parents need to be very concerned about these days. OK

Here is the biggest mistake - this idea that somehow things are worse today, and that hyper-vigilance is necessary because of the the times we live in

All parents - my folks, their folks, and then theirs...back as far as you want to go - have had the exact same things to worry about as you do today

It wasn't easier to be a parent in the past - that is pure fantasy. You can't lock your kids in their rooms to protect them - and you can't treat them as less than a person just so you can justify the things you do just so you won't have to worry

You may as well buy your daughters chastity belts while you're at it

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by doubledutch

 

you don't even have children

please explain why this is relevant

do you honestly believe that parents are wiser just because they're parents?

you would have to argue then that anything any parent did would be the right thing to do - how could it not be?

they're a parent - they're infallible - right?

edit on 2/23/2012 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)

Rally? you want me to explain why being a parent is relevant to this thread...?

OK...I think that parents are better at being parent than people without kids and I think that unless you have got your own children you have no idea what you are talking about. You can theorize all you like but it means nothing.

That's not to say that all parent are right all the time, nooooo way, there are loads of really bad parents out there, but that's not what im talking about.

Being a parent is scary, hard work and most of the time most of us are learning as we go... it's bloody hard, so cut the op some slack is all im saying, and unless you've been there it's not really your place to judge.

Would you tell an engineer how to design a building having never worked in engineering before? i hope not because you'd look really stupid and the building would fall over

enough said

Originally posted by doubledutch

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by doubledutch

 

you don't even have children

please explain why this is relevant

do you honestly believe that parents are wiser just because they're parents?

you would have to argue then that anything any parent did would be the right thing to do - how could it not be?

they're a parent - they're infallible - right?

edit on 2/23/2012 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)

Rally? you want me to explain why being a parent is relevant to this thread...?

OK...I think that parents are better at being parent than people without kids and I think that unless you have got your own children you have no idea what you are talking about. You can theorize all you like but it means nothing.

That's not to say that all parent are right all the time, nooooo way, there are loads of really bad parents out there, but that's not what im talking about.

Being a parent is scary, hard work and most of the time most of us are learning as we go... it's bloody hard, so cut the op some slack is all im saying, and unless you've been there it's not really your place to judge.

Would you tell an engineer how to design a building having never worked in engineering before? i hope not because you'd look really stupid and the building would fall over

enough said

So only a parent can understand the moral code when dealing with a human child?

This is wrong on all accounts. Being a parent has nothing to do with it. Just like if you were to steal your friend's phone and start talking to his girlfriend through it, pretending to be him...he wouldn't be very pleased, would he?

It could even screw up your friendship.

Children have long memories...and things like this can leave their mark. What if this person has permanently affected the daughter's future? You never know with these things.

Bottom line: this is just wrong. There's no prerequisite of being a parent to understand the morals behind this. All being a parent does is make you more protective and controlling. Even if your intentions are good.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

reply to post by Starchild23


go back and read my posts in this thread and you will understand where I am coming from.

I am arguing the point that unless you are a parent you cant really cast judgement because you dont have any experience.

i agree that texting back was a bad idea, I said it yesterday... this discussion has moved on and somehow we are discussing weather people who aren't parents know how to raise children, and my view is that unless you have your own children, you don't.


oh and there is no such thing as hell my friend

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

then let's put this thing back in perspective

Yes, let's once again review what we think we know.
Everyone has jumped to conclusions and assumptions based on very few details. We need to OP to confirm or deny a few very important key factors. In regards to the degree that certain lines were crossed.

But the over all important factor that he loves his daughter and is trying to protect her is not over ridden by a small mistake of texting this person who was not supposed to be contacting his daughter.

The OP has explicitly said a few times now that his daughter was told to tell her friends not to text her. So if the boys are disobeying his request they entered into this with dirty hands themselves and knowingly trying to circumvent his parental authority.

the fun? his first concern is not about protecting his daughter - it's about messing with her - and her friends

The OP made that opening statement as a joke IMO. It wasn't till later that he actually found out there was something serious to worry about. Certain developments happened during the course of this thread. That's my understanding at least.

why is he asking - he's a parent - isn't everything he does - as a parent - OK?

How old are you? You're acting like a snotty teenager. Drop the sarcasm.

This is the first time you have spoken to me. So why don't try to act like adults.

you don't care that we think the claim is false - interesting

so - being worried is justification for doing anything you want - even if it's wrong? I guess then that claiming you were were worried would work just as well

That's quite a leap and another exaggeration. When did I say he's justified to do anything? What may seem wrong to you does not mean it IS wrong. Especially if you don't fully comprehend the situation correctly. Especially when taken out of context and exaggerated by pretentious, unequipped, inexperienced, know-it-alls.

Here is the biggest mistake - this idea that somehow things are worse today, and that hyper-vigilance is necessary because of the the times we live in

All parents - my folks, their folks, and then theirs...back as far as you want to go - have had the exact same things to worry about as you do today

It wasn't easier to be a parent in the past - that is pure fantasy. You can't lock your kids in their rooms to protect them - and you can't treat them as less than a person just so you can justify the things you do just so you won't have to worry

You may as well buy your daughters chastity belts while you're at it

Actually there a huge difference from the age of the internet. The internet changed a lot whether you want to believe it admit it or understand it or not.

I would like to ad that all children are different and so are all parents. All relationships between a child and each of it's parents are different. You can not compare one to another. It really is it's own unique situation that must be dealt with on it's own circumstances. You can not give any blanket statements when it comes to parenting. Besides the obvious things that are against the law. You can not impose your morals onto another parents decision. As long as they are not breaking the law it is their right to parent their child how they see fit.

reply to post by doubledutch

Rally? you want me to explain why being a parent is relevant to this thread...?

Yes - I do. You say this:

OK...I think that parents are better at being parent than people without kids and I think that unless you have got your own children you have no idea what you are talking about. You can theorize all you like but it means nothing.

then you say this:

That's not to say that all parent are right all the time, nooooo way, there are loads of really bad parents out there, but that's not what im talking about.

how is your judgement any less judgey?

The OP has been criticized very thoroughly by a lot of people here at ATS - why do you think that is? It's not that he's a bad parent - but he did an incredibly stupid thing - and, he did ask for our opinion. This is the one thing that is true without question - he asked - and he asked for a reason. He gave his hand away in the OP

Being a parent is scary, hard work and most of the time most of us are learning as we go... it's bloody hard, so cut the op some slack is all im saying, and unless you've been there it's not really your place to judge

Being a parent is scary - it's terrifying much of the time. Being a parent doesn't make you smarter by default

I remember being a kid - and I remember my mom and dad working their asses off trying to provide for us. And, I remember my mom worried sick every time we left the house - worried we might not come home again

I do not exaggerate here - my mom had a serious problem when it came to her fears concerning what might happen to her children - but she always let us go. She is to this day one of the bravest people I've known - she did what she knew was best - not what was easiest or what made her feel better. She trusted me - and I in turn tried to live up to her trust. I also was well aware (because - kids aren't stupid) how much she worried - and I would do anything to spare her that - you understand?

My dad taught me how to think for myself, think things through, trust my own judgment - and to be honest above all things. You don't actually want to let people down when they treat you as if you're intelligent, capable, good and worthy people.

When you tell us you can't possibly understand unless you've been there...it makes no sense. All you're saying is - it's hard - and I'm doing the best I can. Fair enough. It doesn't make everything you do the right thing - and it doesn't mean the opinions of non-parents are wrong. It means - it's hard, it's scary - and you're doing the best you can - and nothing more than that

Would you tell an engineer how to design a building having never worked in engineering before? i hope not because you'd look really stupid and the building would fall over

parent are not engineers - they don't have to know a single thing to deserve the right to become parents

it's other people we learn from - society is constantly studying itself, monitoring itself - discussing itself - we learn and grow together

since you like analogies: if you yourself are not a politician - would you have any right to have an opinion about whether or not politicians are doing the right thing?

I know some people in this thread are feeling defensive - and it's not hard to understand why

the thing of it is - your sons and your daughters are people. You're trying to help them grow into the very best adult people they can be. In order to live up to your expectations and absorb your lessons and advice - they need to know they can trust you. They also should be able to respect you - not just fear you

enough said

reply to post by ThirdRock69

How old are you? You're acting like a snotty teenager. Drop the sarcasm.

This is the first time you have spoken to me. So why don't try to act like adults.

:-)

it wasn't sarcasm - it was a serious question

sorry you can't see it for what it is

I can see now how you are - with your children - and with everyone apparently

if you're not up for a real discussion - that's OK by me

this may be the first time I've ever said this to another poster during my entire time here at ATS - but life is too short

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

if you're not up for a real discussion - that's OK by me

I will answer your question.

why is he asking - he's a parent - isn't everything he does - as a parent - OK?

He's asking because all parents at times second guess their decisions. They feel guilt, pressure, they don't want to be the bad guy. Because children play on their parents emotions and parents don't like seeing their children unhappy.

He is looking for advice and support yes. But advice and support from people who have actually been where he is. People who relevant experience to give him advice. Anyone who wants to offer good advice with respect has been heard.

The people who open with rude remarks or try to exaggerate the behavior of the OP while at the same time holding the children to no responsibility are not helping the situation. Parents need to follow through with punishments. Sometimes that hard to do even if you know you're doing the right thing.

I think the actions of the OP have all been taken out of context

reply to post by ThirdRock69


thank you - very much - for a genuine reply

He's asking because all parents at times second guess their decisions. They feel guilt, pressure, they don't want to be the bad guy. Because children play on their parents emotions and parents don't like seeing their children unhappy.

well - that was just spot on

He is looking for advice and support yes. But advice and support from people who have actually been where he is. People who relevant experience to give him advice.

I can appreciate that - it would mean more coming from someone in the same situation

but, we're all people - and most of us have at one time or another had our privacy invaded - it's a horrible thing to go through

it's much worse when the violation comes from someone you love and trust

this is why non-parents have as much a right to their opinion as parents - this is about person-hood

and the rights of individuals - and though it's hard for parents to walk that line (I'm sure - I am most sincerely sure) they still need to consider what's right for their child - as another human being

it is, no doubt - a continuously frustrating, stressful and perplexing situation to be in

but your children are individuals - and their private thoughts, conversations and feelings are just that - private

even from their parents - and - maybe even especially from their parents

we're all in this together ThirdRock - and that's the truth

and - we're just talking

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


ok I don't really want to do this but I would like to answer your rather long post as I feel you deserve it for putting the time in even if you come across a tad rude

quoted bits from you are bold, im no good with code and stuff

Im quoting you here...

You say this:

"OK...I think that parents are better at being parent than people without kids and I think that unless you have got your own children you have no idea what you are talking about. You can theorize all you like but it means nothing."

is this not true? yes


then you say this:
That's not to say that all parent are right all the time, nooooo way, there are loads of really bad parents out there, but that's not what im talking about."

is this not also true? yes

"how is your judgement any less judgey?"

Im not judging, im pointing something out, there is a big difference.

"The OP has been criticized very thoroughly by a lot of people here at ATS - why do you think that is?"

because a lot of people here on ats are kids or people without children who simply dont understand, would you take parenting advice from a conspiracy website? no didnt think so, have you asked yourself why that is.

"Being a parent is scary - it's terrifying much of the time. Being a parent doesn't make you smarter by default "

i didnt say it did, I said it makes you a better parent, not smarter.

"When you tell us you can't possibly understand unless you've been there...it makes no sense. All you're saying is - it's hard - and I'm doing the best I can. Fair enough. It doesn't make everything you do the right thing - and it doesn't mean the opinions of non-parents are wrong."

well I disagree, i think it makes perfect sense. How can someone who has never had children possibly understand what it's like to be a parent? You cant, you may think you can but you cant... And I have never stated that it makes everything you do the right thing, in fact I have clearly stated that it doesn't. i also don't think the opinions of non parents are all wrong, just some, although I would say that the majority are un educated opinions.

"it's other people we learn from - society is constantly studying itself, monitoring itself - discussing itself - we learn and grow together"

I agree, but we also learn from our own mistakes, and actually I learn quite a lot from my kids believe it or not

"since you like analogies: if you yourself are not a politician - would you have any right to have an opinion about whether or not politicians are doing the right thing?"

Actually i'm not big on analogies I just though it would be the best way to get you to understand. But I do agree with your analogy to a certain extent. i don't like what politicians do but I would not even think about telling them how to do their job because I have no idea how that complicated world works. I know my own limits and I know when to shut up and keep my nose out of something I know nothing about.

"I know some people in this thread are feeling defensive - and it's not hard to understand why"

im not sure anyone other than the op is feeling defensive... that's a bit of a weird statement you made there... are you feeling defensive? I'll tell you how this thread made me feel... angry at first, because the op got a hard time, then it just made me think ats is full of kids with no idea.

"the thing of it is - your sons and your daughters are people. You're trying to help them grow into the very best adult people they can be. In order to live up to your expectations and absorb your lessons and advice - they need to know they can trust you. They also should be able to respect you - not just fear you"

Now of all your words these are the ones that i 100% agree with, and luckily for my kids this is exactly what they get

out of interest how old are your kids? I have a 3 ranging from 3 to 11 and im constantly learning and adjusting to them growing.. how do you find it?

Originally posted by doubledutch
reply to post by Astyanax

 

ahahahahah

you don't even have children

mate you have no idea what you are talking about

looks like my earlier assessment of this thread was correct.

edit on 23-2-2012 by doubledutch because: (no reason given)

Because having children automatically makes you a good parent.

-facepalm-

reply to post by doubledutch


first - thank you for responding - because you saw I put in the time... That made me laugh - so - this was worth that at least :-)

the thing of it is - your sons and your daughters are people. You're trying to help them grow into the very best adult people they can be. In order to live up to your expectations and absorb your lessons and advice - they need to know they can trust you. They also should be able to respect you - not just fear you

Now of all your words these are the ones that i 100% agree with, and luckily for my kids this is exactly what they get

I'm glad - on both counts

out of interest how old are your kids? I have a 3 ranging from 3 to 11 and im constantly learning and adjusting to them growing.. how do you find it?

lol! oh, come on - you must have figured that out by now. I have no kids - sadly

but look - even so, I just said something kinda smart that you 100% agree with :-)

people were defensive - and no - there really isn't anything strange about that comment. Nobody likes to be judged - being a parent has got to be one of those situations where you're constantly judging yourself. Yes - some people were defensive - just as we non-parents might feel defensive being told we don't know what we're talking about. You know that we do

there is no handbook - and we were all kids. We're also all people

good luck with that 11 year old - that was about the age I really started to speak my mind

:-)

reply to post by boncho


nope that's not what I said or what I meant and I think you know that

do you have kids?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


im sorry you don't have kids (if you want them that is)

I still stand by what I said. And yes we were all kids once, that doesn't mean we all know the first thing about how to raise them though. You'll understand what I mean when you have your own, it all changes... the way you thought you would parent and the way you actually parent are two very different things.

I would not take mortgage advice from a plumber and i doubt I'd take parenting advice from someone without kids, I don't know many parents that would.

At the end of the day i am talking about actually raising real children, a lot of the people here are just theorizing and speculating on how they think they would do it. that isnt the same as doing it.

edit: yeah my 11 year old has already started pushing the boundaries and playing up, thing is we have brought her up properly, with the right amount of everything so I think she'll be fine, she's clever and grounded and makes me proud every day.