About the dark side, how to work with it.

reply to post by UnlimitedSky


NO I completely understand what you are saying.

I was just saying that they tap into their dark sides to unlock very powerful hidden potential within themselves that most people will never realize they have, but not for the bad of things.

I was just pointing out that this dark side can be used very efficiently for those that learn to control it and appreciate and acknowledge it.


But I completely get what you were saying, I was just adding to it.

reply to post by mileysubet


Very true. The best kindness is being honest. But when honesty is cruel it might be better to leave well enough alone.

Combine honesty with the question: is it necesary? and you will have your answer. If honesty will hurt someone but it is necesary, then it may be the best path to take. However, if it is not necesarry, I think just let it go? Yah?

reply to post by AQuestion


But my OP had nothing to do with responses!!!!! I am not talking about how you conduct yourself in life, but rather how you view yourself.

It focuses purely on acknowledging your dark side, and not pretending all the time that we are only these holier than though beings that contain only good.

Originally posted by brommas
reply to post by UnlimitedSky

 

Next thing we will all be told is that paedophillia is natural to us all and we should accept that this is part of our dark side. Sorry i have to disagree with all of your statements, i have never heard so much crap in all my life!. When i do something for someone else, it makes me feel good,however if i were to do something bad to someone else, this really would not make me feel good.

I read only the first paragraph of your statement as it is clear as daylight that you:

1. Either choose to enterprate the Opening Post incorrectly
or
2. Did not read it at all!

No where does it say: Go and do bad things!!!!!! You are not getting it, my friend.

Originally posted by kwakakev
As with everything, the more you understand it the better your capabilities. Studying history does help in coming to terms with this messed up world. From the age of dinosaurs and savage nature of the jungle, rise of tribes, regional conflicts, religious wars and ongoing battle for resources. Now with secret services utilising every deceptive technique they can it does get hard to know which way is up at times.

It is a good connection you make that in trying to understand yourself helps in understanding the world.

Thank you, dear Kwakakev,

Like few others on this thread you did not interprate my opening post into something sinister that gives the human free ranes to go out and do bad things. It is about self knowledge, accepting all the parts of you, and being whole instead of creating the persona of being totally pure and good.

Please, people, read the opening post. IT IS NOT ABOUT GIVING YOURSELF PERMISSION TO DO BAD STUFF BECAUSE A DESIRE HAS OVERCOME YOU!!!

It is about acknowledgement, not doing.

It will be so great if a man could say to a woman, you know, I felt so stupid when I could not understand that problem, instead of him pretending that he understood it.

IT IS NOT ABOUT HURTING OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A BAD DESIRE TO DO SO!!!

Please read the complete opening post.

reply to post by ChimeraLOL


The only thing the dark side needs, is for us to be able to acknowledge it.

So what if you did eat the last cookie (when you were a child) - for instance! We teach children to lie. So wrong.
The problem is these little lies about cookies become lies of grand proportion, eg. infadility, etc.

I think half of infadility/marriage problems will be sloved if the partner may only say: yes, I found him/her attractive and he/she did make me feel turned on, but its nothng serious. Then it is over and out. Instead, it gets suppressed and eventually leads to action that cannot be controlled anymore. The control is not needed if the desire was simply acknowledged at the start, and then perhaps turned into humourous teasing, and then, let go! Over and finished.

But is sits there, forbidden fruit, it festeres and grows into uncontrollable desire, a fantasy that overpowers and breaks marriages because its suppression will not work for ever. The longer you suppress, the bigger the desire. Until no power of the will can resist.

When I first became a Christian, filled with the Holy Spirit, this rebirth led to the death of my dark side.
I suddenly had a newfound power to instantly discern between right and wrong, regardless of how ambiguous or convoluted the situation might have seemed to others. The quality of my dreams changed, too. Instead of the usual puerile, fatuous visions I had previously experienced when I slept, my dreams began to take on a whole new meaning. They became more pedagogical, leaving a lasting impression that carried over to the waking world.

I think the message the OP is conveying to other members is that it is better to acknowledge your negative feelings and evil thoughts than to suppress them where they may manifest into something ugly or draw undesirable people into your life.

I found the following paragraph very profound:

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
On this basis, we learn to lie. Eventually we don't only lie to the outside world, but we also lie to ourselves about who we really are. And as such, the Persona is born. We build a persona out of all the good things we believe is acceptable and totally disregard any negative aspects about ourselves in order to be accepted. However, this is only a front, and not truly who you are.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


It makes me happy that at least there is some understanding of what I was trying to say. This is of course not my own theory, but the entire basis on which Carl Jung, the very famous and apt psycologist based his works on.

I like that your avatar gives total acknowledgment to a possible wide range of mystical dark characteristics, Dark Ghost!

There is nothing to suppress. There is no ego. The word, "Ego", simply means "I", in Ancient Greek. Just a pronoun, that's all. Acknowledging it results in instant separation from the One. When you are fooled into thinking that "ego" is the part of you that can or should be suppressed, you are tricked into believing it is you. Ego, like matter, does not matter.

I agree that we are all conditioned to wear masks to hide our true feelings
Also I agree to merely say to another Dont do that is useless - Like a sign saying "Don't walk on the grass" only encourges the natural rebel to do so - Why - Because being told not to do something does not explain why one should not do that thing - An example being "Dont put your hand in the fire" - So curious child places hand in fire and quickly learns why it is not a good idea.
I recognise my dark side but endevour not to embrace it but accept it and attempt to understand it.
We are not victims of our thoughts and feelings - We are monitors of them and have choice is what I believe

reply to post by UnlimitedSky


No actually i read the whole thing and took it a stage further, i believe it is called furthering the debate, because you do not like the points i made does not make them incorrect. I understand what you are saying, but where to draw the line my friend is what i am getting at.

Within each of us is the power to do great evil or great goodness. if we are to rise above the duality of being, we must view ourselves as wholes. we are all good and bad, but it is the individuals choice. good and bad are locked in a never ending dance that resonates through the cosmos.

Understanding the good, the bad and becoming uncorruptable.
This is what basic human education should be.

I've always been gray, the middle, the truth, which I think is the true path to "god".

I'm the type of person that is just too honest for my own good. I never lie when it comes to me. I rather suffer from the truth then live with a lie. I do not lie to myself and I don't regret the choices I took. Because when I did something, I always did it the best way I could and thinking it was the right path.
If ever it wasn't the right choice, I just wasn't wise enough. I accept reality, I don't blame myself negatively and I live with it.

One thing I hate the most, is people that ask me to lie for them or do an unlawful act. I am guilty to have lied for others and I hate it so much.

My honesty has kept me back in a lot of jobs and promotions. I have no restrictions in my mind about telling the truth and say what I think is true to anyone. I have stood up against pretty much all my bosses because my only real boss, is the truth.

I would rather die then say the sky is green and the ocean is pink.
I don't mind living with the consequences of my actions, it's much better then living a lie.

I stand guilty for being too good for my own good and I am proud of it.

I completely agree with Jung.

I am a prime example of someone who was taught and conditioned to suppress the dark side, and it has made me miserable. However, if things had been different I never would have achieved my current perspective of life. Brace yourselves, my life story is coming.

The conditioning started when I was very young, maybe kindergarten or 1st grade. I had sort of an anger problem or a problem with authority and a foul mouth to boot. Day after day my actions landed me in detention, whether it was back-talk to the teacher or provoking a fight during recess. The problem was that I felt oppressed and I hadn't the slightest clue that my actions were wrong, having been raised by a single father who was rather permissive until my step-mom came into the picture around 8 or 9th grade.

Anyway, then I was placed in some sort of special program with a few big native kids who acted much the same way I did (two of them were in fact kids I had fought with on the playground). The program used positive reinforcement to encourage thinking before acting. Here the dark side was presented as something to avoid at all costs. It diminished my almost suicidal tendency to provoke bigger kids into fights, so thats a plus, but didn't change the fact that I was (still am) a sarcastic know-it-all. I was in this program until I showed great improvement in following the rules around the end of the 2nd grade.

Things seemed to get worse once I started to get the hang of suppressing rage. The fights with other kids turned into one-sided bullying as I would no longer "free the beast" and attack them, but instead tried to ignore them. The taunts and insults escalated, as did my boiling rage beneath the surface. I had a relapse, and began using adult language I learned from my dad and his friends at the slightest provocation. Whenever this would happen, the bullies would instantly fall off the radar and my ass would land in detention again.

In the 3rd grade my school shut down and only a few of the bullies attended the same new school which I attended, and it was a bigger school so the frequency of incidents diminished slightly. I became socially withdrawn in an attempt to keep myself off the radar. The dark side, the anger, was ignored as much as possible but still remained.

By the 6th grade my perceived persecution at the hands of the "fascist" school staff whenever a bullying incident took place made me resentful of authority. My learned tendency to overanalyze every situation led me to conclude that some conspiracy was taking place to oppress the students and mold us into "robotic sheep" (yes, I came up with that on my own at the time :lol so I began once again to rebel against authority, speaking out against pointless arbitrary rules such as taking off your hat when indoors.

Thankfully, my 6th grade teacher acknowleged my anger. She was the first to do so without condescention or attempting to keep me "in line". She was also the first teacher I truly admired and respected. For once I felt I was actually understood, and she helped me to realise I needed to look past my own self-righteous indignation and see things from someone else's perspective.

Since then, anger hasn't been as much of an issue. Sure I still get angry from time to time, who doesn't? But now I have the wisdom to fully analyze a situation from multiple perspectives.

Still, I struggle with my dark side sometimes. Other issues have come up, and my tendency to overanalyze everything before acting means I spend more time thinking about life than I do actually living. Enough ranting, time for a cigarette.

reply to post by Glass


Wow - Great read - I was with you all the way - My school days were full of bullys both my peers and the teachers. When I went to school corporal punishment was the norm.
One day I got so sick of a particular bully - I had actually felt sorry for him for he was from a brocken home and not happy and I was his only so called friend -. I dreaded going to school each day and when getting home my parents would query me about the bruises and cuts - I would make lame excuses - My brothers knew better what was occuring and took the pee out of me and caled me names. Anyway this day I got so sick of it and he started his usual prodding and punching so I snapped and did what I had seen older boys do - I layed the nut on him that is slang for head butting him - He dropped like a stone . Then I felt a boot up my backside - It was a teacher addressing me by my Christain name - He called me a coward for doing such a thing and dragged me to see the dreaded Headmaster. I was made to apologise to my so called friend but after that he never again tried it on with me. I became quite beligerant after that - And one day the cock of the class - slang for best fighter - He was showing off to a group of girls and puttting me down so I snapped again and called him out which caused all to laugh - After school he came up to me and said he did not want to fight but that I should not embarrass him in that way again - He actually liked me and we came to an understanding - much to my relief I may add or I would have got a real pasting.- not that that would ever stop me from standing my ground.

reply to post by Glass


Hey Glass,

Thank you for sharing. It seems like a rough road that you started out on without any choice. Life is strange, the way we are subjected to our circumstances, and especially as children, we have so little control. I feel for you, my friend.

It is amazing what a difference one teacher can make. To the rest of your life! Regardless of her coming into your life, remember, you sound like a bright, intelligent person and probably have some creative gifts to help you shape your life. Did I read correctly that you write poetry? rap-poetry? Just asking.

You mention that you still battle with your dark side. Don't fight with it, don't do battle with it. Of course, don't give it the freedom to just ruin your life, but if you are sad, depressed, hurting or whatever, acknowledge it. The more acknowledgment you give it the better the release. If you write (maybe a poem?) about it, you can really find release.

reply to post by Glass


ok, old age creeping up on me!

the guy that posted after you is called artsist poet (avatar) so i got it a little pearshape.

Sorry about that!

Nice post, and I agree with Dylan that it is refreshing to see a thread which encompasses the totality of human behaviour instead merely that which is perceived as ‘good’.

I will say though that of what you mentioned of Debbie Ford’s work it seems overly simplistic. Children learn to lie before they learn the reason not to do ‘bad things’, and even if you’re the most enlightened, patient parent on Earth they will still lie before they are even capable of understanding you reasoning as to why something is wrong. All they perceive is that they are doing something, you don’t want them to do it, and if they want to continue doing it deception is one of the options which are available.

As a parent of 2 toddlers I have never said “don’t be ___________”, and have always tried to reason with them where possible. But unfortuantely this is not always possible. The Persona (I’m guessing here you’re referring to the ego’) is well in place long before language and any worthwhile reasoning skills are in place. The ego in a child would fully come in to its own I would guess around the age of 18 months, well before most children can say more than a few token words. I would also say in my opinion ego development is not a natural progression but also quite necessary for a child to develop as a fully functioning human being.

Humans will lie for many reasons, and are quite capable of learning how to do this at any age. I do agree that some of what Debbie says is interesting, and there is definitely something to it, but it is drastically over simplified, at least the way you have presented it. I do however agree with everything you said after mentioning Jung.

It is also my belief that it is perfectly okay to lie if the person you are talking to is not prepared to hear the truth, or if telling a certain truth will cause more harm than good. Most humans unfortunately operate only slightly above the baseline, instinctual reactionary level of any other animal. The problem is our minds are far more complicated and carry a lot of baggage.

Obviously in a perfect world this would not be the case. But it is not and I have neither the time nor inclination to try and ‘enlighten’ every trouble maker I encounter. I do not feel any need to make up lies regarding myself or my situation just (for example) to make myself look good. But if lying gets me or those I care about out of a tricky situation then I feel no moral qualms about doing it.

Obviously I would prefer not to have to do it, and I am not naturally a dishonest person. But the truth told to those who are ill prepared to hear it can do more harm than all the lies in the world.

And then there is also the case of the damage the truth can cause when told by those with ill intent…..

Originally posted by 1littlewolf
Nice post, and I agree with Dylan that it is refreshing to see a thread which encompasses the totality of human behaviour instead merely that which is perceived as ‘good’.

I will say though that of what you mentioned of Debbie Ford’s work it seems overly simplistic. Children learn to lie before they learn the reason not to do ‘bad things’, and even if you’re the most enlightened, patient parent on Earth they will still lie before they are even capable of understanding you reasoning as to why something is wrong. All they perceive is that they are doing something, you don’t want them to do it, and if they want to continue doing it deception is one of the options which are available.

As a parent of 2 toddlers I have never said “don’t be ___________”, and have always tried to reason with them where possible. But unfortuantely this is not always possible. The Persona (I’m guessing here you’re referring to the ego’) is well in place long before language and any worthwhile reasoning skills are in place. The ego in a child would fully come in to its own I would guess around the age of 18 months, well before most children can say more than a few token words. I would also say in my opinion ego development is not a natural progression but also quite necessary for a child to develop as a fully functioning human being.

Humans will lie for many reasons, and are quite capable of learning how to do this at any age. I do agree that some of what Debbie says is interesting, and there is definitely something to it, but it is drastically over simplified, at least the way you have presented it. I do however agree with everything you said after mentioning Jung.

It is also my belief that it is perfectly okay to lie if the person you are talking to is not prepared to hear the truth, or if telling a certain truth will cause more harm than good. Most humans unfortunately operate only slightly above the baseline, instinctual reactionary level of any other animal. The problem is our minds are far more complicated and carry a lot of baggage.

Obviously in a perfect world this would not be the case. But it is not and I have neither the time nor inclination to try and ‘enlighten’ every trouble maker I encounter. I do not feel any need to make up lies regarding myself or my situation just (for example) to make myself look good. But if lying gets me or those I care about out of a tricky situation then I feel no moral qualms about doing it.

Obviously I would prefer not to have to do it, and I am not naturally a dishonest person. But the truth told to those who are ill prepared to hear it can do more harm than all the lies in the world.

And then there is also the case of the damage the truth can cause when told by those with ill intent…..

Hi,

I tried to keep the post as elementary as possible, of course Debbie Ford's book is much more detailed. A good read.

The persona is absolutely NOT the ego. The persona is that facade that most build in wanting to appear only good. It is the mask behind which people hide because of the belief that if they are real, and admit to their weaknesses or dark sides, then they will not be accepted.

We are born with ego. It is part of the human being that grounds him in this world. We are not born with a persona. A baby has no histasion to throw up on you, regardless of you may think of him when he does that, and even little children can say some very 'unacepptable' things because they are still blatently true.

(When my now 23 year old son was only 2 we went to Cape Town via Durban on train. When the conductor came round to clip our tickets, my son looked right in this man's face and said: Oh Mommy! He is a very ugly man, shame!' Granted, the man had ackne, and was most unatractive, but if he already had his persona or mask in place, he would be to worried about appearing judgmental and rude.)

The post is not about lying, deception or telling fibs. It is about lying to yourself about who you are.

Trying to mold yourself as only good, whereas we all have a dark side. Simply acknowleging your dark side, instead of pretending it does not exsist, is the healthier option.