It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by vogon42
You might as well be asking if I am "ok" with gays, or if I am "ok" with Muslims because these are things outside the scope of my concern since they do not bear directly on Christian doctrine, which I am concerned about.
Originally posted by vogon42
Originally posted by MzMorbid
In fact, such people believe that their sins have been transferred to another person to take that punishment for them, on an individual bases, meaning a personal salvation, just for them, in this delusional world which they have created for themselves.
Isn't that exactly what your religion does? Didn't that christ dude die for your sins?
Oh no, actually he believes christ is god.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
......
My God IS the only way, meaning Jesus of course.
I thought he was the son of god. Guess I'm wrong. That does bring up some questions. If Jesus is god, and jesus died....then there is no god.
We know christianity does NOT believe in reincarnation.
OOPS....whats that, OK, reincarnation is OK for this ONE instance.
That would be like saying cannibalism is wrong, but then having people symbolically eat someones flesh, and drink their blood.
OOPS, again, its ok for the christains to do this because, uh....well just because it is.edit on 4-1-2012 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by vogon42
It's a loaded question which presupposes one correct answer and I feel no obligation to answer such questions.
I'm guessing you have not read the thread.
Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by jmdewey60
So, let me get this straight. If you are a good person, help people whenever you can. Never hurt anyone, never commit crimes, basically live a good honest life. If this person happens to not believe in god, you think he will go to hell.
Well, if that is the case, that would make god arragont, ignorant, basically not a nice being at all. If you are right, then i would never worship a being like that because if its true what you say, he is not good.
Saying that, how many threads a week do we get where people seem to think they know how gods thinks. Its all a load of rubbish!
Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by jmdewey60
You need to change your thread title, as its very misleading.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Philodemus
I really don't know anything about you, sorry, I can only go by what you post and then I read.
.
I don't have the power to send anyone to hell.
I'm not the one banishing people to hell here.
I don't know what you are talking about here, about a one book I read. As for the O.T., I don't see any compelling reason to get my thoughts into conformity with it.
No mention of burning forever in a lake of fire if you don't follow along.
You seem to be convinced that hell existed in the O.T. based on the one book you've read.
I'm not talking about some esoteric debatable bit of obscure church doctrine. I'm talking about people who promote evil and condone theft and murder.
Really, though I digress. The o.p. was really about you condemning false prophets and their beliefs, all in the name of your very ignorant, narrow-minded, and limited interpretation of the Bible.
It becomes wrong when you turn it into meaning you just got handed a free, non-revocable guaranteed ticket to heaven no matter how much you willfully sin through the rest of your life.
What's wrong with Christ's sacrifice being a personal salvation?
Being a human being who can think, that's what puts me in a position to pass judgment.
What puts you in the position to pass any judgement considering you are an ignoramus when concerning the fundamental tenets of the Christian faith?
An atheist that knows more about “religion” then a Christian......typical.
I'm not talking about some esoteric debatable bit of obscure church doctrine. I'm talking about people who promote evil and condone theft and murder.
That would have been a help piece of info for your ORIGINAL POST, ya pot stirrer.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Philodemus
These people going to hell are for a reason which is they are unrepentant so they are not themselves going to be swayed by any arguments from me or anyone else, so my message for this thread is a warning to those who come on this forum that there are people on this forum who present themselves as prophets for Christ who teach a doctrine of free salvation which allows the believer in such an idea to continue their lives exactly the same way as they have done before and never to concern themselves with things like trying to be good because we can figure that stuff out later after we go to heaven.No, from personal experience from when I died and went to hell, that was what it was like and not what I expected, in fact I did not believe in hell up to then.
Salvation, as I understand it IS free. The doctrine you are referring to is more of a completely unconditional salvation. The depth of your lexicon is important to give credibility.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Chamberf=6
What is your definition of hell?
Whatever the opposite of Heaven is, probably somewhere with no sky, since it would be completely underground, so kind of boring with no sun or way to tell the passage of time.
Wrong. Hell is the complete absence of the presence of God. Do you think Christ robed himself in human flesh and died on the cross to be risen again just to save mankind from boredom? Really? Not enough to strong arm the wicked....boredom.
This is how you try to gain credibility? By telling us of your personal experience in “hell”. You do realize how many tenets of Dispensationalism you are smashing to bits with this? You can't do that, and not expect REAL trained theologians not to call your falsehoods out. No man. NO MAN. Has ever returned from hell. Name one from the Scripture. Not even Christ. Do you know where Christ went for the three days he was in the tomb? Abraham's bosom. Which would be where Catholics devised their ideals of purgatory, just so you know. Christ went to Abe's boob and gathered up all those saint who died during the time of the old covenant and took them to heaven. They were previously unable to do so without Christ's FINAL sacrifice.....NEXT!
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by IblisLucifer
But maybe your hell might be my heaven
I doubt it but I would not completely rule it out.
Are you positive of anything? With much learning comes sureness of foot, lad.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by AllUrChips
That is likely true enough but I think the idea is to have Jesus come and rescue us from that place, or at least send an angel to bring us up.
Considering the greek translation for "grave" is "Hell", yes, I would say we are ALL going to hell, See ya there
What? Rescue us from what? We're dead......
quote]Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon
Religion is brainwashing the fearful...
.... so it was a spur of the moment thing to start this thread and didn't even think about for more than a few seconds.
And that's the real problem here. You have to understand that when you post on this site you are in the company of REAL scholars. Many an idiot? Sure. But laced within the fibres of morondom are REAL-LIFE scholars who have dedicated decades of their lives to studying anything on which you could possibly post. Including Christian Apologetics. So, you need to approach everything you say with tact and humility and respect for those who know more, by carefully and thoughtfully putting your post together.
edit on 8-1-2012 by Philodemus because: just getting the codes right.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by angus1745
People against religion arent going to hell. Fools like yourself just think we are.
If you don't believe in hell then you are in luck as far as this thread goes.
I get your point about Bible Bashers, not sure but I think you mean Bible thumpers, but I will admit that I do not like watch religion TV. I know I used to 26 years ago but it might have been because I did not have cable and that was all there was on Sunday morning.
I think Christianity in general has been a good influence over the last couple hundred years but I think there is a serious problem with a big segment of it right now, and so the posting I do which is to counter the hate mongering pro-war variety which also passes itself off in a lot of cases as being against "religion" or so they say but they sit there and preach end of the world scenarios that are beyond belief in being highly convoluted and fanciful with lots and lots of blood.
Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by jmdewey60
Sorry to disappoint you friend...You are wrong. People who judge other people as if they must meet their own standards instead of God's standards are certainly going to hell because as Jesus said and I believe all of Christianity is behind the man there are only 2 commandments. Love God with all your heart and your brother as yourself. If you are trashing your fellow mans beliefs for no reason other than to prove superiority or provide some edification on your part or of your perspective that is not love. That's being judgemental and making a inaccurate and misinformed judgement based on your own limited perspective belief and fears. There is only 1 sin that may not be forgiven. A sin against the spirit.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Philodemus
I do "study up" and have a book that is all about the Old Testament concept of afterlife, so it is not from lack of effort but maybe a lack of information available to the general public other than Wikipedia.
. . . you seemed to skirt all of my translational and scriptural questions and headed straight for the more personal and even hypothetical ones.