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"No one was arrested because all those involved were men of God," he said
Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
reply to post by colbe
I'm confused Colbe about the heresies. I know there is a danger in New Age ideas that we make all religions equivalent. Christians are supposed to pay attention and acknowledge that Jesus does say that he is the way, the truth and the life and that no man come to the Father but by him.
But Protestants believe that, so where is the heresy? And when I am inclusive of my non Christian friend's who give me love and support when so called Christians turned their backs because of things like my Sunday clothes weren't nice enough or my mom couldn't afford as big of a tithe or whatever, where is the heresy? I thought Jesus told us we were not to set stumbling blocks before one another as we all struggle to follow his example of loving one another as we love ourselves. So is it that big of a deal if some of us are confused over whether the Eucharist is the literal body and blood of Christ or symbolic? If we let that separate us and think one of us is better because of one choice about one bit of doctrine, isn't that setting the stumbling blocks before one another that Jesus warned us not to?
I'm kind of thinking it's when a person can get to the point he understands who we all are and what we all mean to our creator that we can pray for even the most heinous among us to find this great love and salvation, too, that we will be finding the great way and truth and life that Christ says is him. He did live and teach and die and rise for everybody. He set the perfect example and as straightforward as he made it look, I don't really know anybody including myself who can really get to the point Christ was at when he suffered and died for us all.
Sorry, I know my post is not very clear. I wish I were a better writer. I know people can make mincemeat out of this post. It just is what it is. That's the best I can do.
Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain
SheeplFA,
I read your first paragraph and wanted to reply. Don't feel bad, it's this
way for Catholics too. My dear husband is Catholic but liberal in thinking
not understanding the teachings of the Church on some things. The
term would be Cafeteria Catholic. I pray for him, right now that's how
it is, I have hope.
Can you take instruction in the faith and become Catholic? Would your
husband be fine with it? The program, I am sure you are aware, is the
RCIA program. I have found, I like the Traditional Latin Mass groups,
parishes, their instruction better, no offense to the RCIA people but some
of them are lay people not instructing always the true teachings. It's always a traditional priest preparing you at a Latin Mass community. You might find the nearest and call them.
There are two Orders approved by the Church, the Priestly Fraternity
of St. Peter and the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest.
Call one of them, to find the parish in your area to take instruction.
The Tridentine Mass is so beautiful and reverent.
colbe
Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by colbe
Colbe, you have to understand this, it is not the eucharist we have a problem with, it is who ministers the eucharist. As you will notice in the last supper, which was a seder meal, Jesus offered Himself. He did not ask his disciples to break the bread and administer it. And furthermore, He passed the cup without taking a drink from it because He was going to drink it new in heaven.
When you take the eucharist, it is symbolic but the priest, especially one that is a sinner, is not Christ. And you know very well, that if you take the eucharist unworthily, all you do is add sickness upon sickness on people. Is the priest the vicarious Christ, or is the bread? The biggest mistake Catholics made was accepting that the vicar was the avatar for Jesus Christ. There is only one Jesus Christ and He presents Himself inwardly to the believer. No matter how much sprinkling or dunking that happens, if a person does not really believe in Jesus Christ, it is none-effect in their lives.
Think about all those popes who were murderers and child molesters, and calling themselves the vicar of Christ, administering a wafer and telling people they would be ok if they took it. An evil man calls himself vicar, then tells you to not question him, and tells you he gets his authority from the church, and then telling you the church gets its authority from God...God does not use evil men to perform sacred rites, ones that He never even endorsed in the first place. Yes, Jesus did say "I am the bread of life which came down from Heaven", is a ritual performed in every observing Jewish home on Passover. You need to go to a seder meal and witness it for yourself.
But I will say this, Paul would be turning over in his grave to see how Catholics have manipulated a religion and then giving people false hope by saying "take the eucharist, no matter what condition the priest lives in, or what condition you are in, all will be overlooked because you did this". Does God operated in that manner? It is not the eucharist we have a problem with, it is those who administer it. I have the right as a Christian to say no to these men and am safe in my salvation because I did not stand in the council of the ungodly.
Originally posted by colbe
Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by colbe
WarminIndy, hi,
Yes Jesus did. There's the true meaning of "remembrance." Jesus was
instructing the Apostles to do as He had just done, change the bread
and wine into His body.
If you believe it to be the body and blood of Our Lord, the Real Presence,
why do you not become Roman Catholic?
take care,
colbe
Originally posted by WarminIndy
Colbe, I am not interested in becoming Catholic as in being under the authority of the Vatican because the Vatican is not the vicar of Christ. The term Catholic, as you say, is universal, and implying a universal, invisible church, that means that believers become part of the church from an inward relationship and not adherence to outward creeds.
I think it is hard for you to get the idea that the rest of us view the priesthood as it is now as an outward showing of might and power and we have problems with the lavish and ungodly lifestyles of the authority figures in the RCC. We don't need icons and statutes to remind us of saints and we don't burn candles for every little thing, we pray about things to the invisible, immortal God and we can do that ourselves without the need for another to do it for us.
Do you overlook the sins of the authority figures of the RCC? Is it because the RCC leadership told you to listen to them anyway? Colbe, you are not listening to God when you listen to this leadership, and this leadership keeps you in bondage without setting you free because the RCC demands that you accept it as the authority. Think about it and try to put two and two together... a person bullies others, and then demands you accept their acts of bullying and the way they do it is tell you that they are in charge and you have no permission to not believe them.
The Vatican is really a large pyramid scheme, all the money is given to the top guys, and they live lavishly and do wicked things, all the while telling you to accept it and not question it. The eucharist is administered falsely, under false pretenses, and that is not protestant anti-Catholic bashing, it is truth that you can't accept because you are so afraid to admit your leadership has led millions upon millions astray by themselves claiming they received their right by divine authority, which you and I both know they did not. They have no authority other than what they have forcibly taken, and forcibly kept. Jesus is not in the Catholic church leadership, He is above all powers and principalities, including the RCC that set itself up without the mandate from God or even the permission from God.
What you will say is this..."but they told us that Jesus gave her authority". They told you, they did not show you, THEY told you. Jesus did not tell you, the apostles did not tell you, THEY told you, and you are too afraid to speak against them. Why are you afraid of the leadership of the Catholic church? Are they going to hurt you?edit on 12/31/2011 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)
'
Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by colbe
I believe my Lord's presence is within me. He said He would abide in me and He in I. The breaking of bread is a symbolic act at every Jewish seder meal. Jesus was keeping the tradition.
Jesus abides in the believer who believes and receives His holy spirit within.
edit on 12/31/2011 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by colbe
I believe my Lord's presence is within me. He said He would abide in me and He in I. The breaking of bread is a symbolic act at every Jewish seder meal. Jesus was keeping the tradition.
Jesus abides in the believer who believes and receives His holy spirit within.
edit on 12/31/2011 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)