Swiss Government Declares Downloading for Personal Use Legal

USA is a Corporation, not a Country, hence nothing will be free

Originally posted by Areyoupeopleinsane

As how it should be, it's not 'Stealing' as you are not taking physical property,

if you contemplate it within a wider space,

Example: a mate walks into a store, buys bread, walks out and hands you a slice, you didn't pay for so it's theft? that happens daily, i believe the terminology is 'Sharing'

THE ABOVE QUOTE ISNT MINE... I STOLE IT FROM DARTH_PRIME. ITS NOT PROPERTY SO ITS OK

No. It's stealing. And the guy that bought the bread is an accomplice for giving his friend the bread.

It's easy to "share" when it's not you who invested blood, sweat and tears to make the product just to see it get "shared" without compensation.

Because sharing is only fun, when it's not your stuff.

Is piracy stealing?

Well, lets consider a different aspect. If you go to a brick and mortar store and purchase a game, bring it home, copy it all, then bring it back for a refund, is that stealing? same thing.

Is piracy good?

No. You can not make any valid argument for it. No, it doesn't help out the industry, the artist, or the investment put into the project.

Does piracy have any benefits whatsoever?

Hardly. If someone pirates a multiplayer game, they may purchase it legitimately in order to unlock that aspect of the game when they realize they can't just steal it.
Also
If a person whom has absolutely no plans on even considering purchasing the game grabs it for a trial, they may indeed purchase it if they find themselves interested in it...but this doesn't happen often enough to be significant..they will probably just pirate any future versions.

How to stop it...
You can't really. its a world of immediate gratification and if you block a site, another comes up...so, the only real way to curve piracy is to tie in a lot of game functionality with online play.
Minecraft has a simple and elegant solution for this. You can pirate the base game, however, all mods tie into a valid login, and minecraft is all about the mods...so you start getting addicted playing, you want to enhance the experience with the thousand mods out there, and you realize you must purchase in order to get to the good stuff...and this ends up getting them quite a lot of new customers. Game companys (such as the elder scrolls/fallout franchise) should adopt this model of needing a valid login in order to play the mods made by the community...and many other devs should look into the same model (and allow for modding also).

As far as music goes...there is no real solution about that one. The average pop label targets the prime piracy age range also...I guess just focus in on having the artist do more tours and less songs to sell.

reply to post by voyger2


Completely agree with what you have to say. The publicity factor already drives big companies like Google. In the future most movies and music would be released online rather than in theaters or in CDs .
More the people who view the site, the more cash you get. As simple as that.
This is how the internet works today.

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by Areyoupeopleinsane

As how it should be, it's not 'Stealing' as you are not taking physical property,

if you contemplate it within a wider space,

Example: a mate walks into a store, buys bread, walks out and hands you a slice, you didn't pay for so it's theft? that happens daily, i believe the terminology is 'Sharing'

THE ABOVE QUOTE ISNT MINE... I STOLE IT FROM DARTH_PRIME. ITS NOT PROPERTY SO ITS OK

No. It's stealing. And the guy that bought the bread is an accomplice for giving his friend the bread.

Nobody bought the bread
someone stole the damn truck that delivers the bread and is "sharing" the stolen property right outside the bakery it was intended to be at.

I love it how people demand to use physical representations to paint their picture of digital information..might as well use legos to explain religion.

Originally posted by dec23
reply to post by voyger2

 

Completely agree with what you have to say. The publicity factor already drives big companies like Google. In the future most movies and music would be released online rather than in theaters or in CDs .
More the people who view the site, the more cash you get. As simple as that.
This is how the internet works today.

i totally agree with you

and theres nothing they can do about it....it will be the naturally way for media .. look to the history

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by Areyoupeopleinsane

As how it should be, it's not 'Stealing' as you are not taking physical property,

if you contemplate it within a wider space,

Example: a mate walks into a store, buys bread, walks out and hands you a slice, you didn't pay for so it's theft? that happens daily, i believe the terminology is 'Sharing'

THE ABOVE QUOTE ISNT MINE... I STOLE IT FROM DARTH_PRIME. ITS NOT PROPERTY SO ITS OK

No. It's stealing. And the guy that bought the bread is an accomplice for giving his friend the bread.

Nobody bought the bread
someone stole the damn truck that delivers the bread and is "sharing" the stolen property right outside the bakery it was intended to be at.

I love it how people demand to use physical representations to paint their picture of digital information..might as well use legos to explain religion.

I don't get it. If he paid for the truck and he is using it, it's not stealing. If he didn't pay for the truck and is using it, it is stealing unless he has permission from the truck manufacturer and the bakery shop.

Originally posted by dec23
reply to post by voyger2

 

Completely agree with what you have to say. The publicity factor already drives big companies like Google. In the future most movies and music would be released online rather than in theaters or in CDs .
More the people who view the site, the more cash you get. As simple as that.
This is how the internet works today.

Not as simple as that.

Try it. Buy a server, design a page, and get a million people flowing through
then check your bank account to see how many internet bucks got added...yep..nada.
What your hopeing is that someone will click on a bloody ad and give you a penny or two now and then. how many ads on ats here did you click on? how many do you think the average user clicks? mhmm.

Now, you decide..time to at least have this pay for itself..so you rent ad space and some banners plop up..suddenly you got the community screaming at you that your all about the capitalism and not the content..so you decide to instead sell some fan gear...and you get the same argument also...

No, just having a popular website doesn't mean you make lots...or even some money. Now, there is money to be made of course, but frankly, its easier just to work a 40 hour a week job for a stable paycheck verses work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week dealing with all sorts of trolls and idiots to make a bit of money that allows for some nice ramen noodles

Back in the late 90s, the .com thing was doing well..people poured money and investments into start up .coms that basically did anything because they figured it would make money somehow, but when it burst, it nerfed any but the most sound website ideas..ebay, amazon, etc..things that actually had a clear way of how to make money.

I am still trying to figure out how things like ATS runs (with a staff and all) if they are simply revenue based
-considers federal money...puts tin foil hat on...gets over it-
But ya, point is, until you can claim things based on your experience verses assumption, then you simply don't know

and no, having a popular youtube channel also doesn't make you a majillionaire..just gives you props.

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by Areyoupeopleinsane

As how it should be, it's not 'Stealing' as you are not taking physical property,

if you contemplate it within a wider space,

Example: a mate walks into a store, buys bread, walks out and hands you a slice, you didn't pay for so it's theft? that happens daily, i believe the terminology is 'Sharing'

THE ABOVE QUOTE ISNT MINE... I STOLE IT FROM DARTH_PRIME. ITS NOT PROPERTY SO ITS OK

No. It's stealing. And the guy that bought the bread is an accomplice for giving his friend the bread.

Nobody bought the bread
someone stole the damn truck that delivers the bread and is "sharing" the stolen property right outside the bakery it was intended to be at.

I love it how people demand to use physical representations to paint their picture of digital information..might as well use legos to explain religion.

I don't get it. If he paid for the truck and he is using it, it's not stealing. If he didn't pay for the truck and is using it, it is stealing unless he has permission from the truck manufacturer.

ok, here is the example relevant then if you seriously demand to use physical examples.

He purchased the truck...fine...he then back engineered the truck and put out the exact patent for all to use.
This goes against patent laws..its just information, but its protected information and intellectual rights of the manufacturer...
is it stealing to mirror something exactly? yes...yes it is, hense why I cannot open up a McDonalds store without having express permission by the holder of the patent (McDonalds).

spin that
-eats some bread-

Originally posted by BeholdAPaleHorse

WOWWW....Governments are taking all of our fun away! Artists still get rich even with downloading happening!

Why shouldn't artists get rich?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Forgive me if the link doesnt come out right. Googles revenue.
www.dailycommonsense.com/how-does-google-make-money/


And this is how facebook makes its
http:// howdoesfacebookmakemoney.com/

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by Areyoupeopleinsane

As how it should be, it's not 'Stealing' as you are not taking physical property,

if you contemplate it within a wider space,

Example: a mate walks into a store, buys bread, walks out and hands you a slice, you didn't pay for so it's theft? that happens daily, i believe the terminology is 'Sharing'

THE ABOVE QUOTE ISNT MINE... I STOLE IT FROM DARTH_PRIME. ITS NOT PROPERTY SO ITS OK

No. It's stealing. And the guy that bought the bread is an accomplice for giving his friend the bread.

Nobody bought the bread
someone stole the damn truck that delivers the bread and is "sharing" the stolen property right outside the bakery it was intended to be at.

I love it how people demand to use physical representations to paint their picture of digital information..might as well use legos to explain religion.

I don't get it. If he paid for the truck and he is using it, it's not stealing. If he didn't pay for the truck and is using it, it is stealing unless he has permission from the truck manufacturer.

ok, here is the example relevant then if you seriously demand to use physical examples.

He purchased the truck...fine...he then back engineered the truck and put out the exact patent for all to use.
This goes against patent laws..its just information, but its protected information and intellectual rights of the manufacturer...
is it stealing to mirror something exactly? yes...yes it is, hense why I cannot open up a McDonalds store without having express permission by the holder of the patent (McDonalds).

spin that
-eats some bread-

It's stealing alright. To a lesser degree. But still you are stealing the concept. Let's say McDonalds was the first to come up with hamburgers. It should be considered stealing and you should not get away with opening a burger shop unless you have permission from McDonalds.

Originally posted by Troofseeker

Originally posted by BeholdAPaleHorse

WOWWW....Governments are taking all of our fun away! Artists still get rich even with downloading happening!

Why shouldn't artists get rich?

Because people are greedy, and do not want other people to have more money than them.

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
As how it should be, it's not 'Stealing' as you are not taking physical property,

if you contemplate it within a wider space,

Example: a mate walks into a store, buys bread, walks out and hands you a slice, you didn't pay for so it's theft? that happens daily, i believe the terminology is 'Sharing'

The flaw in your thinking is you forget one important principle: someone, somewhere, has to pay. And those some ones have to pay many more times than the freeloaders take. In your world of nothing but freeloaders, who's going to produce goods at their expense so you can have said goods for free? You're assuming that even though you’re not paying, someone else is, and therefore "covers" you. Who are those that should pay for your free stuff? Why is it okay for you to just assume someone else will gladly pick up your tab? So, under your model of “sharing”, you’d be quite okay with me not studying for finals but “sharing” your answers. Right? Because, after all, you did the studying. Why shouldn’t be I be allowed to “share” what you’ve already paid for?

It's stealing, plain and simple. This thread contains pages and pages or people rationalizing theft. Stop advocating the theft of others’ work. If you don’t like how music is marketed and sold, go start you’re “Free for Everyone” competitor to itunes. Good luck finding investors who will face a 100% loss, good luck to finding top notch employees who will work for no wages and no benefits, good luck find artists who will gladly work for free, good luck finding distributors who will gladly give your product away, while paying (at a 100% loss) for all of the labor, tech services & needs of distribution, good luck finding stores who will gladly pay for their store’s overhead that will be paid with the money they aren’t making from “selling” your Free For Everyone music……..I could go on for another two pages.

Surly you can see how your position is untenable?

Originally posted by Jepic


It's easy to "share" when it's not you who invested blood, sweat and tears to make the product just to see it get "shared" without compensation.

Because sharing is only fun, when it's not your stuff.

Shame. Dude, you need to warm up and join the human race!
It's the absolute most fun to share your own creations.
I guess if you don't get that then you're not an artist.

I would love to move to Switzerland.

Originally posted by RogerT
It's the absolute most fun to share your own creations.

Fun indeed, but sharing doesn't put food on the table.

Switzerland! **** yeah!. This is where I'm moving when it all goes to hell here in the States...

Here's my thoughts relating this piracy situation, with relation to the gaming industry:

***The following is entirely hypothetical***

So I have this friend...let's call him Leonard...who "illegally" downloads games from time to time. Why? Because the gaming industry puts out a lot of junk (alternatively substitute movie or music for 'gaming') and rarely releases demos anymore. He wants to know if the experience will be worth his money, and he doesn't know anyone who already owns it. And why would you buy a car before test driving it? "Thief!", you might shout at him. But, nay, I say. Why?

What does he do when he downloads a game and doesn't like it? Well, he doesn't play it anymore and avoids a bad investment. What does he do when he does like it? And how about if this game supports multiple players - a feature not supported by pirated games? Well, he buys it, and encourages his friends to do the same.

So what's the problem in this - hypothetical - situation?

***End hypothetical situation***

The primary reason for corporations opposing piracy is because it allows the consumer to bypass their veil of advertisement/marketing BS and actually see if the product is worth the money. They want us to have as little information as possible when we're buying their crappy products. Yes, there will always be those dirtbags who download everything illegally - but more laws certainly won't stop them from doing that.

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by Jepic


It's easy to "share" when it's not you who invested blood, sweat and tears to make the product just to see it get "shared" without compensation.

Because sharing is only fun, when it's not your stuff.

Shame. Dude, you need to warm up and join the human race!
It's the absolute most fun to share your own creations.
I guess if you don't get that then you're not an artist.

I'm part of the human race. I'm warm as long as you don't take my things for granted.
It's absolutely fun to share my creations. Spot on. It's not fun to steal my creations.
3rd sentence is useless other than to provoke.

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by RogerT
It's the absolute most fun to share your own creations.

Fun indeed, but sharing doesn't put food on the table.

What does food on the table have to do with performing your art?
Again, if that is lost on you, I'm pretty sure you ain't no artist!