What do Wiccans believe in?

This the second time, in 2 weeks, that one of my old threads has been re-activated. What the heck’s going on lol

Thank you autowrench and wildtimes for explaining Wicca in more detail. I’m pretty busy right now, but I do have few things I’d like to touch upon, regarding your replies, when I get back.

But it’ll have to wait until later…

Thanks again for your replies…


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

Thank you autowrench and wildtimes for explaining Wicca in more detail. I’m pretty busy right now, but I do have few things I’d like to touch upon, regarding your replies, when I get back.

But it’ll have to wait until later…

Thanks again for your replies…

. No problem! Glad you asked!

EDIT TO ADD: second star and latest flag are from me.

reply to post by WarminIndy

I love my brother who practices Wicca and would love to see something work for him in his life to give him peace because for the last 15 years of his life, he has had no peace and wants Wicca to work for him. He has been casting spells for a long time without any change in his life.

Tell your brother to stop casting, he is only pushing that which he seeks farther and farther away each time. Tell him this:
If that which he seeks cannot be found within, he will never find it.

Originally posted by cetaphobic
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

Can you show me proof that many Wiccans become Satanists? Just anything scientific or truthful that doesn't have a Christian bias will do.

No, he cannot. He has been challenged again and again for proof of concept, and none is ever given.

And the reason there is similarities between Satanism and Paganism is because Satanism took some symbols and ideas from Paganism. Not the other way around. Christianity did exactly the same thing (death and resurrection God, Christmas, Easter, and so on).

Exactly so, that too has been discussed to the infinite in this forum.
Christians such as RV are forbidden from researching anything, it seems, except the Bible itself. So anything not in there he immediately discards and ignores. It is sad too, that a person could life a life such as this, with these beliefs in their mind all the time.

reply to post by Joecroft

Which seems to suggest that you’re not even sure whether you’re a Wiccan or not!

If you read me, then you know I do not deal in labels. I do not label people, and expect the same from them. After all, when humans label a thing, they only see the label after that, and not what is the real thing underneath. Yes, I am Wiccan. I am not like any other Wiccan anywhere. There, you have a label. Happy?
Ask me who I am I will say "I am Spirit." This human body has gained more than a few labels, but not me, the real me. Still pure, still sovereign, and growing all the time. One day I will simply leave the body and go home.

And as you are doing nothing but trying to pick a fight, I will stop right here with you. You don't want to know, you just want to Judge.
Go ahead, Judge away, call us your names, assign us your demonic forces, and tell your Satan we are here for him. We will not be the least impressed.

reply to post by wildtimes

Originally posted by wildtimes
Wicca is not so much "worship" as it is "working with" and "revering" the unseen forces, and the creators, the Deities, the God and the Goddess.

But how do you know these Deities etc, are real? Is there a Pagan, or Wiccan bible out there somewhere? Now I know people can study this stuff, but it just seems to me, like a mish mesh of ideas, from various mystery schools, clumped together, over a long period of time.

Originally posted by wildtimes
Wiccans believe that anything harmful they do will come back on them multiple times over (karma), and they do NOT work with evil entities, demons, or satan. That is all NOT WICCA.

So no, Wiccans are not working with evil. They are harnessing power and sending or bending it to achieve good. Anything else and they are not Wiccans. Wiccans do not believe in hell, or Satan (Satan is an invention of Christians), nor demonic possession, nor any of that. Yes, evil exists in the world, but it is not coming from Wiccans, nor does it have anything to do with them.

The thing is, if your open to the spiritual side of things, then doesn’t evil entities existing, become something you have to seriously consider.

I mean, some of those spirit entities, like fairies, tree spirits etc may well be good and not evil, but how do you know this applies to all of them? Don’t you think you need to know first, before doing the rituals, and the incantations?

You see, I’m not even sure I would want to even mess around with anything like that, especially due to what I have recently become spiritually aware of.


- JC

reply to post by autowrench



Below is the general flow of our conversation in this thread…

Originally posted by autowrench
I only call myself a Wiccan for lack of a better word.

Originally posted by Jooecroft
Which seems to suggest that you’re not even sure whether you’re a Wiccan or not!

And your recent reply below, in context to the above…

Originally posted by autowrench
If you read me, then you know I do not deal in labels. I do not label people, and expect the same from them. After all, when humans label a thing, they only see the label after that, and not what is the real thing underneath. Yes, I am Wiccan. I am not like any other Wiccan anywhere. There, you have a label. Happy?

Now please bear in mind, it has been like 7 months, since I posted my reply to you above. Normally when I start a thread, I have a general idea of where I’m heading with it, but it’s been a while, on this one.

Anyway, I don’t really think I was trying to label anything in a negative way, or even label anything or anyone at all. I just wanted some kind of definition, maybe even through a consensus of posts, as to what Wicca actually is. I wasn’t looking to label people in a racist type sense of the word… just looking for clarity really…

Originally posted by autowrench
And as you are doing nothing but trying to pick a fight, I will stop right here with you. You don't want to know, you just want to Judge.

May I remind you of your own words below…

Originally posted by autowrench

I do not label people, and expect the same from them.

Well, in our conversation above, I wasn’t trying to label you, at all! But now you are the one, who is now labeling me!!

And the funny thing is, I don’t even classify/label myself as a Christian. It would take a while to explain all my beliefs, so to keep this short, I prefer to think of myself, as someone who believes in Yeshua and his message.

Originally posted by autowrench
Go ahead, Judge away, call us your names, assign us your demonic forces, and tell your Satan we are here for him. We will not be the least impressed.

I’m not here to judge or call anyone names. I started this thread with the soul intention, of getting a better consensus, of what Wicca is.

Originally posted by autowrench
This is Wicca to me, of course, we are many, and we are diversified, ask 10 Wiccans a question, you may get 9 different answers.

Yes, but there must be some core defining characteristics, which fit all Wiccan’s, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to know who or what another Wiccan is/was etc.

And based on my current understanding, I think I have just the solution to this dilemma. Which goes something like this…

(1) Wiccans worship various entities, with many different names, but they don’t all worship the same ones.

And just to throw this in is as well…

(2) They don’t know the origins, or whether these entities they pray to, are good or evil… its just, luck of the draw…


Yep… seems to some up at least a few aspects, which are prevalent throughout all of Wicca, and can be applied to all Wiccans in general.

There may be others aspects of Wicca, which can be applied to all Wiccans, but I’m hoping that the Wiccans will point this out, rather than me.


Just trying to move the definition, along a bit…


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

I mean, some of those spirit entities, like fairies, tree spirits etc may well be good and not evil, but how do you know this applies to all of them? Don’t you think you need to know first, before doing the rituals, and the incantations?

You see, I’m not even sure I would want to even mess around with anything like that, especially due to what I have recently become spiritually aware of.

Because you are afraid. I did study, before doing the 'rituals' and 'incantations'. I am fully aware of the protocol. There is nothing in 'Wicca' that promotes engagement with evil.

:sigh:

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

If you only knew what you think you knew.....are you a Wiccan? Have you studied Wicca as a religion? Do you have Wiccan friends?
The things you post about Wiccans are taken from Christian websites. I'll bet you didn't know this was once a Christian Symbol?

Wiccans worship satan, (they refer to him as lucifer mind you). Many wiccans get recruited into satanism.

You have been found wanting. Please stop insulting our religion, or I shall taunt you a second time.

reply to post by Joecroft

OK, upon reflection, I was way to harsh, and I apologise. Please allow me to explain what I meant. I said "I call myself that for lack of a better word." Well, I do not exactly fit the whole Wiccan thing, but my thoughts, my ways, practices, all fit nicely with it's ways and path. I don;t think I will ever declare to be 100% anything except perhaps Spirit. That I will agree to. Everything else is simply human terms for what they see, and think. I studied Wicca quite extensively, and do consider myself knowledgeable on the subject, but do I perform Magick, or even a simple Ritual? (not anymore) Do I dress that part of a Witch? No. Like I said, Labels. The word "Witch" means, "one who is wise." I guess that fits.

(1) Wiccans worship various entities, with many different names, but they don’t all worship the same ones.

This is true. We do not "worship" as a Christian would worship, it is more like a reverence and an honouring of the Deity.

And just to throw this in is as well…

(2) They don’t know the origins, or whether these entities they pray to, are good or evil… its just, luck of the draw…

Not true. It is Christians who do not know the origins of their Gods, or they would not offer worship to Yahweh.
Wiccans as a rule take a long time choosing, and doing a great deal of research on everything from origin to attributes. And Wiccans know that Evil is in the hearts and minds of Humankind alone, and not in any author of evil incarnate. The origin off the Goddess Diana, described as Divine, and Brilliant is mentioned in the Book of Acts in the Bible. She was also called "Queen of Heaven."

reply to post by autowrench

Originally posted by autowrench

OK, upon reflection, I was way to harsh, and I apologise.

Thanks, although I didn’t think you were being too harsh, compared to some stuff I’ve seen here on ATS over the years; maybe just the wrong choice of words; Anyway, apology accepted…

No hard feelings…

Originally posted by autowrench
Please allow me to explain what I meant. I said "I call myself that for lack of a better word." Well, I do not exactly fit the whole Wiccan thing, but my thoughts, my ways, practices, all fit nicely with it's ways and path. I don;t think I will ever declare to be 100% anything except perhaps Spirit.

So in your own opinion, what is this way and path you speak of?

And what would you say, is the closest element that ties your current beliefs to Wicca, if any?

Originally posted by autowrench
That I will agree to. Everything else is simply human terms for what they see, and think. I studied Wicca quite extensively, and do consider myself knowledgeable on the subject, but do I perform Magick, or even a simple Ritual? (not anymore) Do I dress that part of a Witch? No. Like I said, Labels. The word "Witch" means, "one who is wise." I guess that fits.

Strange, I could have swore you were a man, not that it really matters. Unless men can be witches too.

Originally posted by Joecroft
(1) Wiccans worship various entities, with many different names, but they don’t all worship the same ones.

Originally posted by autowrench
This is true. We do not "worship" as a Christian would worship, it is more like a reverence and an honouring of the Deity.

Thanks for the input, I guess this is similar to Catholics honoring their Saints.

But what makes you believe these deities exist, I mean other than just researching them through the mystery school literature etc ?

Originally posted by autowrench
…
…
And Wiccans know that Evil is in the hearts and minds of Humankind alone, and not in any author of evil incarnate….
…
…

But don’t you, or Wiccans believe that evil entities exist?



- JC

reply to post by wildtimes

Originally posted by wildtimes
Because you are afraid.

LOL

There’s only one thing I’m afraid of, and it walks on four legs!

Originally posted by wildtimes

I did study, before doing the 'rituals' and 'incantations'. I am fully aware of the protocol. There is nothing in 'Wicca' that promotes engagement with evil.

:sigh:

Yes, there may be nothing in Wicca, which actively seeks, evil; but what I was getting at, was that if you’re just praying doing ritual/incantations etc, then how do you really know what you letting in or out.

Yeshua makes it clear in the bible that evil entities do exist, and I believe him, because I’ve had an encounter with a shadow entity myself. And of course, no body ever wants, or intends to engage with evil, but the bible mentions that these entities try to trick and deceive people; how else do you think they enter in?

:double sigh:


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

Yes, there may be nothing in Wicca, which actively seeks, evil; but what I was getting at, was that if you’re just praying doing ritual/incantations etc, then how do you really know what you letting in or out.

How is interacting with Earth, Air, Fire, and Water evil? You are trolling, Joe. There's plenty of info out there. Wicca does not "conjure up evil spirits"!

Yes, I'm perfectly sure that for me to interact with elemental forces is fine, and has nothing to do with "evil entities."

Whatever. Talk to the hand.

You're trolling.

reply to post by wildtimes

Originally posted by wildtimes
Yes, I'm perfectly sure that for me to interact with elemental forces is fine, and has nothing to do with "evil entities."

Well, I’m not suggesting that you’re deliberately conjuring up "evil entities" intentionally, if that’s what you’re thinking.

What I’m saying is, is that, if you can accept things of a spiritual nature, (which you clearly do), and you can agree that "evil entities" might, can, or do exist…then the next logical question would be…

”How do you know what your dealing with, is always safe?”

Originally posted by wildtimes
Whatever. Talk to the hand.

You're trolling.

Trolling…. LOL Come On…


No ones ever accused me of that before…


Here’s my illustrious ATS record so far.


Zero off topic posts…


Zero verbal warnings…


Zero posting violations…


Zero posting bans…


No foes added…


1 accusation of Trolling (by you),


Not bad, for the almost (by only 9 days) 4 years, that I’ve been here on ATS!!!


If you don’t believe it, then check with one of the moderators…


Peace…


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

All right.. how about "baiting"?

Fine, I take you at your word that you really were curious about Wiccans 7 months ago. I didn't even see the thread until it got bumped back onto the boards in this recent bout.

I do not believe in "evil spirits" or "demons", so your question to me is irrelevant. The evil in this world is human behavior and ugliness toward one another. All else is neutral.

reply to post by wildtimes

Originally posted by wildtimes
All right.. how about "baiting"?

All I did was ask you if you knew if what you were dealing with, in the spiritual realms, was good or evil. I don’t really see how that can be seen as “Trolling” or “Baiting”.


If want to see real “baiting”, then watch various interviews of Ron Paul by the American media. That’s what I call real “baiting”.

Originally posted by wildtimes
I do not believe in "evil spirits" or "demons", so your question to me is irrelevant.

Well, IMO they do exist…do some research into “shadow people” and then get back to me.

Originally posted by wildtimes
The evil in this world is human behavior and ugliness toward one another.
All else is neutral.

But you don’t seem to be seeing a possible bigger picture. You say evil can exist in this world etc and you believe in a spiritual realm; So why is it such a difficult leap for you to make, that "evil entities" can exist in the spiritual realms as well???


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

So in your own opinion, what is this way and path you speak of?

My path.

And what would you say, is the closest element that ties your current beliefs to Wicca, if any?

I believe in a Duality of the Godhead, a God and Goddess, equal to each other, and a knowledge of Magick and how it works. And an air of Freedom and Sovereignty.

Strange, I could have swore you were a man, not that it really matters. Unless men can be witches too.

You have been fooled by pop culture and television. The origin of the word is a combination of the Old English word "witan," meaning to know, and the Old English "wican," which means, to bend. Another word that figures in is the Indo-European word "weik," which has a general connection with religion and magick. From this very Ancient root-word came in turn, among other things, a word "wikk," meaning magick and/or sorcery, and this eventually produced the Old English "wicca," a male witch, "wicce," a female witch, and the verb "Wiccan," to describe the religious aspects. Some say Gerald Gardner originated the term Wicca/Wiccan, but this is incorrect, as it appears in the book, "The Arrow and the Sword," by Hugh Ross Williamson, first published in 1947. Long before any of Gerald Gardner's books on witchcraft.
There is also an Anglo-Saxon word "witega," meaning a prophet, or seer, and that comes from comes from the Anglo-Saxon "witan," to observe, which seems to be in line with the word "witan," to know.'
One of the tenets of the Practice of the Magickal Arts is:
"To Know, to Will, To Dare, and To Keep Silent."

The most frequent explanation is that it is akin to the word wise, and that witchcraft therefore means The Craft of the Wise.

Thanks for the input, I guess this is similar to Catholics honoring their Saints.

We call then the "Ancient Ones," the Ones who came before us. To us, Death is but a passing into a new world, so we are tuned with the Spirits of our Ancestors. What I meant about the word "worship,"
which means, "to work for," is that Wiccans do not kneel down, do not clasp hands, of supplicate, or surrender, of any of those book religion dogmatic things. To us, our Gods and Goddesses are out Parents, per se, and we do not kneel before our parents. It is more like a working relationship. We have an understanding of Power Words, and sometimes we use them to effect a change, or to stop something that upsets us, or stands in our path.

But don’t you, or Wiccans believe that evil entities exist?

Not in the same sense of it. When you say "evil entities." I take it you mean Satans/Demons? We do not believe in any Ultimate Author of Evil, period. There are what we call Inferior spirits. I use lower case because these are not Human Spirits, they are inferior to that.
I know these bother Christians a lot, I often read of Demon infestation and attacks in this forum. They just do not know how to protect themselves, and refuse any advice on Talismans and Sigils, as these are seen by Christians as demonic.

reply to post by autowrench



Sorry for the delay…I had a few things I needed to take care of.

Originally posted by autowrench
And what would you say, is the closest element that ties your current beliefs to Wicca, if any?

I believe in a Duality of the Godhead, a God and Goddess, equal to each other, and a knowledge of Magick and how it works. And an air of Freedom and Sovereignty.

Funnily enough, I believe in a Duality myself, God The Father and The Son Yeshua. I also believe that God the Father has attributes which are both male, and female.

Originally posted by autowrench
To us, our Gods and Goddesses are out Parents, per se, and we do not kneel before our parents.

But how do you know that these Gods and Goddesses exist? Is it just faith etc, and what hierarchy or system, if any, do you/Wiccans, think is in place, in creation, where many Gods and Goddesses exist.

Originally posted by Joecroft
But don’t you, or Wiccans believe that evil entities exist?

Originally posted by autowrench
Not in the same sense of it. When you say "evil entities." I take it you mean Satans/Demons?

Yeah, I meant demons…

Originally posted by autowrench
We do not believe in any Ultimate Author of Evil, period.

You say “we”; is this something that all Wiccans agree on?

Originally posted by autowrench
There are what we call Inferior spirits. I use lower case because these are not Human Spirits, they are inferior to that.

If they are not Human Spirits, then where do you, or Wiccans, believe they come from?


- JC

Wicca is a modern British invention derived from another modern British invention, the Golden Dawn.

reply to post by Joecroft

Funnily enough, I believe in a Duality myself, God The Father and The Son Yeshua.

So where is the Mother? No Mother at all here? There is a male and female in every living being, and whatever is held here on Earth, is held in Heaven, according to your God. Did you know how many thousands of years people worshiped and believed in a Female Goddess before the Church came along? Something like 45,000 years.

I also believe that God the Father has attributes which are both male, and female.

So, a Hermaphrodite God? I knew your Good had three heads, but didn't know that!

But how do you know that these Gods and Goddesses exist?

I could ask you the same question, friend. But I know though feeling the Goddess, She is so loving, you cannot help but feel her.

Yeah, I meant demons…

Inferior spirits, Demons were created by Church Scribes, who authoured just about every Grimore on Demonology.

You say “we”; is this something that all Wiccans agree on?

Yep, only Christians believe in Satan and Hell. And they can have both, as far as I am concerned.

If they are not Human Spirits, then where do you, or Wiccans, believe they come from?

I will not sit here and research this up for you. Want to know, start here.