Occupy Wall Street Defense to Ignorant Detractors

Before posting I will give you this disclaimer, if anybody is offended by this, I don't care. As you surely know, the Occupy Wall Street movement has been in progress for a good while now, and of course with anything, there are also the detractors who will not discuss things no matter how hard one tries. I am here to bring sanity to some of this by presenting my experience from starting my own OWS movement in my city. A little bit of background on me, I'm no hippie. I enjoy hunting and killing my own food. I am in a general sense, a libertarian. I have seen things that many people my own age, or many people in general, have not seen in there lives. Have you seen your Aunt gunned down and murdered by Islamic terrorists before? I have, it is one of the many things I've seen in Burma, now etched into my mind, so don't try to say I'm just a book smart student who hasn't seen the world.
Now on to my experience starting an OWS movement in my city. About five days ago, I started a Facebook page for "Occupy Evansville." At this point, we have over 600 likes and we had our first meeting yesterday, drawing 25 people to discuss our plans. What I experienced brought tears to my eyes. For me, I no longer cry out of pain. I cry at beauty. That meeting was the most exemplary display of democracy I had ever experienced. All of us had completey different views (from a staunch conservative to an ultra liberal), different ethnicity (literally Blacks, Whites, Asians, Latinos, Middle Easterners, everybody!), ages (my friend and I 16 to a 70+ year old), and economic backgrounds (some unemployed all the way to those making six figure salaries). We had those arguing for armed insurrection to those arguing for passive resistance, but one thing remained constant, we were all civil, and everyone had there say.
The main goal of OWS is to restore true democracy to the country and our group has decided that would be best done through an electronic direct democracy. We really aren't fighting for a particular idea, we are fighting for the right to have that idea. The right that people ought to have in order to shape the country themselves, not by politicians who are being paid off by big corporations. I have to say, those who are arguing against this are gravely mistaken. News Flash! Jesus won't come out of the blue to save us from ourselves! It is our time to fight for humanity. It is our time to fight for reason and thought. My Greek ancestors fought for this idea ages ago! My relatives from Burma have died in a land where democracy is not even known by a large majority of the population! And people have the nerve to say that the final conflict between democracy and totalitarianism is for pot smoking hippies! I would kill to save a life! I would kill to prove this right! I would die to keep democracy alive!

So yes, keep working, supporting your family, definitely don't hunt or grow your own food or make your own things and be sure to keep staying blissfully ignorant of to the world and the conflict around you.

You have my full respect brother. I come from Venezuela and the government there is doing the same thing to us, only in the most civic way possible so they gather no attention from international viewers.
About the changes in the world, I totally am supportive of this movement, and agree with you on the base that it's a true fight for freedom and equality, where we need to put all our differences aside and go out into the world together. There is no need for leaders when we want equality, I think it's the leaders who got us here in the first place. All we have left to do is help in any way we can to make things right and hope for the best, expecting the worst.

Wow dude talk about a smack to the face with a hand full of reality. You certainly proved yourself. Hopefully everyone will have a realization that our "God" won't be saving us this time. It's our turn to make things right. I will do my best to make this world more better for future generations......even if it means possibly giving up things that I normally wouldn't give up.

That is all nice, but you need to come out with some concrete, realistic ideas on what and how you plan on making change. My frustration with this group is "so what is your answer?"

Show us a viable, workable system that can be adopted by society that is better for all. It's easy to go to Wall street and rant and rave. Give us a solution, an answer, and a plan on what you are going to do. Most of the people in this group seem to be little better than people with nothing better to do.

I want a list of values, a plan of action, and some accredited sources on how your plan will evolve going foward

And conversely, not everyone has to agree with your point of view, as people have different experiences and varying opinions. With all due respect to your family history.

I'll just ask straight out. Since you have instigated an 'occupy' group.

1.) What are your plans for levelling the playing field in regards to the economy/wages?
2.) Isn't having someone with a 6 figure salary on board a little contradictory? What's he/she fighting for?
3.) Once you have a large group of people protesting, and most get arrested (more than likely), what's your next move?
4.) How are any of these protests going to change anything at all? Are you trying to provoke marshal law tactics?

Serious questions.

Democracy is Mob Rule
The Masses are at the football games.
Football rules
Go back to killing Bambi until
Mob Rule wants to kill Bambi with you.

I hate football, democracy and mob rule
America is just a big home owners association now!

You sound almost intelligent so I'm going to post this. The founders of this country were afraid of democracy and for good reason. Every pure democracy in history and every pure democracy in the future has and will fail because most people are too stupid to vote. Once the unwashed masses learn they can vote themselves bread and circuses from the general treasury that is what they will do with no regard for the future of the country until the country is bankrupt. This is where we are headed and where we have been headed from the moment the vote was extended to the whole population. The founders knew the fatal flaw of democracy and attempted to thwart it by limiting the vote to white land owning males. I don't agree the vote should be limited to white males but there ought to be some criteria for preventing the parasite class from voting. Capitalism has some serious flaws but it is by far a superior way to manage the economy than any of the other competing economic systems. And last, any pure electronic democracy will suffer from huge voter fraud and guarantee politics in the US will devolve into complete chaos.

reply to post by MegasAlexandros

The main goal of OWS is to restore true democracy to the country and our group has decided that would be best done through an electronic direct democracy. We really aren't fighting for a particular idea, we are fighting for the right to have that idea.

Perhaps the title of this thread should be:

Occupy Wall Street Defends Their Own Ignorance

While the Constitution for the United States of America uses elements of democracy in its structure, it is decidedly an anti-democracy Constitution. Never, ever, will you find the word democracy within the Constitution. What you will find is the word republican, as in republic. The Republic of the United States is set up to protect the individual rights of people. A necessary element of protecting individual rights is restraining the electoral process. What is expressly forbidden is the use of the legislative, executive and judicial branches to deny or disparage the rights of individuals.

Under a democracy, the majority could use their political power to authorize government to deny and/or disparage rights of individuals. Under our Constitutional republic, no majority, nor any well oiled minority, has the lawful authority to trample over an individuals rights.

The notion that Occupy Wall Street believes they are "restoring" democracy only reveals a mob of ignoramuses who haven't even bothered to read The Constitution for the United States of America, and certainly have no respect for this Supreme Law of the Land.

reply to post by wasco2


Och, and here is where the brand new cool idea finally comes in, get rid of the house of representatives and replace it with the peoples vote, and keep rest; senate, president, etc. I forgot to put that in.

And to Jean, really you think I haven't seen mob rule? And you really think that I've never heard the same "Democracy is mob rule" speech that every sixth grader hears? That is ignorant. Truth is, Democracy makes no money! That is why it is drilled into your head to obey the republic and that the masses are too dumb to rule themselves! The founding fathers were not gods! They didn't even all agree on the republican form of government!

reply to post by Ultraman2011


Ultraman, you see the thing is, I do not run OWS in New York and cannot draw up national plans. Right now I am focused on making change in my own city first.

reply to post by MegasAlexandros


People as a group tend to make very stupid decisions (eg most people after WWII were totally against helping Germany and Japan rebuild, Eisenhower decided the "right thing to do" was to help them, against strong pubic opinion) without having someone to vet out the details.

This sounds like you would end up having uneducated,mob rule. Sometimes having someone that can take all the ideas, balance them out, and get some feedback from various sources, isn't a bad thing. What you need to do, is take the pay-offs and special interest away from that person. That might be a start.

reply to post by Ultraman2011


Did you read my reply to wasco or whatever his name was?

Republic is “of, by and for” the people

Democracy is 51% control the other 49%
I will have no part of it sir.

Glad you want to fix things.
Build a Strong Republic
give up on Democracy.

reply to post by MegasAlexandros

And to Jean, really you think I haven't seen mob rule? And you really think that I've never heard the same "Democracy is mob rule" speech that every sixth grader hears? That is ignorant. Truth is, Democracy makes no money! That is why it is drilled into your head to obey the republic and that the masses are too dumb to rule themselves! The founding fathers were not gods! They didn't even all agree on the republican form of government!

It doesn't matter what you heard. What matters is what you understand. Your belief that democracy needs to be "restored" is woefully ignorant and indicative of just how poorly educated people are today. You cannot restore what never existed to begin with.

Further, your silly Marxist propaganda that "democracy makes no money" and by implication, republics do, is political and ideological tripe. It is the height of ignorance. You and all your other thug friends threatening to clog up the streets of metropolises until you can have the democracy you demand have no clue as to what would have to be done in order to accomplish this. No doubt a Constitutional Convention would have to convene and the current one discarded in favor of one that reflects you and your bully friends idea of good government.

Regardless of what you think is good government, make no mistakes about this, you clearly and smugly think that just because there are millions of ignoramuses just like you that this number gives you some sort of enlightened authority. It only reveal you as the ignoramus you are, nothing more.

You want to actually do some good? Fight for the rights of individuals. There are homeless people in every metropolis being ruthlessly and unrelentingly harassed by police and being told such inanities as "there is no fundamental right to sleep outdoors", but all you want to do is stand in the streets and pump your fists in the air and cry democracy.

Out of democracy rises tyranny!

Just ask the Germans of Hitler's regime.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
You and all your other thug friends threatening to clog up the streets of metropolises until you can have the democracy you demand have no clue as to what would have to be done in order to accomplish this. No doubt a Constitutional Convention would have to convene and the current one discarded in favor of one that reflects you and your bully friends idea of good government.

Regardless of what you think is good government, make no mistakes about this, you clearly and smugly think that just because there are millions of ignoramuses just like you that this number gives you some sort of enlightened authority. It only reveal you as the ignoramus you are, nothing more.

When did I ever say I wanted to clog up a street? And enlightened authority, hmm... well I'll have to pass on that one, you see I think I ran out of money to by stage lights for my authority. If you really don't believe in the ideas of a majority, there is always the option to fight, sway, or run, whichever pleases you. I'd rather not have a few speak for the majority. I was a Fox News, right wing, O'reiley watcher once. Then I realized that there's more to life than money. Things changed after that.
Och, before I forget, is that jealousy I here? Jealousy that a young person is out getting more attention than you and your writings? That my friend, is called Histrionic personality disorder.

Originally posted by MegasAlexandros
And to Jean, really you think I haven't seen mob rule? And you really think that I've never heard the same "Democracy is mob rule" speech that every sixth grader hears? That is ignorant. Truth is, Democracy makes no money! That is why it is drilled into your head to obey the republic and that the masses are too dumb to rule themselves! The founding fathers were not gods! They didn't even all agree on the republican form of government!

I can't speak for Jean but...

This country was founded as and still is a Republic. With a very liberal migration law I might add. If you don't like the country you live in now then move. It's as simple as that. I'm sure there are plenty of countries who would appreciate you for who you are.

reply to post by SLAYER69


That's called running away, I do not RUN. And I said the very same thing you said when I was in fourth grade...

reply to post by MegasAlexandros

When did I ever say I wanted to clog up a street? And enlightened authority, hmm... well I'll have to pass on that one, you see I think I ran out of money to by stage lights for my authority.

It is always the same with you collectivists and your nonsense. In a free country every person speaks for themselves. Is this what you are so afraid of? Does the idea of people you don't like having the same opportunity to exercise their rights as you have yours really just piss you off?

No one speaks for me, and certainly not you! With or without a majority, you do not speak for me, but read your own post carefully to see how you showed anyone who wants to pay attention how you are the bully and thug I said you were. Isn't that what you mean by:

If you really don't believe in the ideas of a majority, there is always the option to fight, sway, or run, whichever pleases you.

Fight, stay or run, but because you believe you have the majority on your side, you could care less about me and my rights, only that you have what you believe to be brute force on your side. Then you disingenuously call those who take issue with your thuggery ignorant.

edit on 4-10-2011 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)

reply to post by MegasAlexandros


No it's not running away. But what you're advocating is tossing out over 230+ years of work in progress because YOU don't like it. Lets not forget the other 320 Million in this country. YOU want a game changer to change the rules to what you see fit. Never mind that the Founding Fathers who among them were scientific geniuses, inventors, statesmen, businessmen and a few who were womanizers figured out a better way of Governance that the world had never seen up till that point

But please, feel free to give us the fruit of your years of experience and education of running a country.

Please

“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.” — John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787

constitutional republic we live in deal with it and i hate to break it all those ows supporters

that constitution aint just a $@#@#$ piece of paper now matter how much you want it to be.

ignorant detractors he says look in the mirror