How was Jesus' Crucifiction the Ultimate Sacrifice?

reply to post by soldita


In my opinion The Spirit entity that was 'Jesus' was the same Spirit entity that was Adam. In the ‘Jesus’ enity’s life the Spirit committed no crime and was therefore sinless. The crucifixion was the price paid by 'Jesus' atoned for his mistake in the garden.
The atonement wiped out all the other sin in the world, that had been, that was and that to come.
You are free to believe in sin though and act in ways that would be less than 'holy'. In fact, it is necessary for Spirit growth.

In My Opinion.

Originally posted by APOCOLYPSE DAWN
reply to post by InshaAllah

 

I have one problem with the Urantia book... It comes out of nowhere! out of left field... maybe I should do some more digging but I havent found where this book originates from besides that it just does and in the 1950's people started spreading it...

I would implore people to use Exegesis when reading scripture... what this means is to pull from the book what it says in its entirety. Not to add our thoughts or beliefs to what it might say but to take it for face value... Also we must take into context the audience of that book, the timeline and culture.

I understand your hesitation for the urantia book. Although i do read from it and support what i read i urge other to pick it up and come to there own conclusions about it.

That said i dont want this to turn into a urantia vs bible thread. i have read almost every religious book on this planet. including all major religons. And for me this has the most truth inside.
from what i know about it it was channeled in the 1930's to a group of select people.

its supposed to be an epochal revelation after christ. it has basicly the breakdown of everything spiritual in the universe. Many different groups of angels, midwayers, composed these papers and then where channeled to us here on earth for a better understanding of things.

Ugh.. here we go again. It seems like someone creates a thread asking this question about once a month. So I will give the same response referenced in this thread

It was a byproduct of the ancient Jewish/Hebrew ceremony in which they felt called to sacrifice animals in reverence to God. Pure symbolism, Jesus was the 'ultimate sacrifice' in reverence to God, for the salvation of His people. Don't forget, the sacrifice was only half of it. The resurrection sealed the deal. Furthermore, i think you are getting confused by thinking that Jesus feared death. He knew it had to happen and he knew what was waiting on the other side of death. You can be confident that Jesus did suffer, physically and spiritually. 'Jesus' is the form that God took in order to instate the 'New Law'. If some Joe Blow walked around claiming that he was God incarnate, what do you think the first response of every person would be? Prove It! We humans are so caught up with proof, which substitutes for faith. Faith is sooo difficult for humans, and that is one major characteristic that sets so many people apart from one another. So... keep in mind that Jesus, after Messianic Consciousness, never used his, as you so eloquently call them 'magical powers' for selfish motives. But! Jesus, with all of His miraculous abilities, made sure He instilled that 'man is not saved by works alone'.

Originally posted by TomServo
Ugh.. here we go again. It seems like someone creates a thread asking this question about once a month. So I will give the same response referenced in this thread

It was a byproduct of the ancient Jewish/Hebrew ceremony in which they felt called to sacrifice animals in reverence to God. Pure symbolism, Jesus was the 'ultimate sacrifice' in reverence to God, for the salvation of His people. Don't forget, the sacrifice was only half of it. The resurrection sealed the deal. Furthermore, i think you are getting confused by thinking that Jesus feared death. He knew it had to happen and he knew what was waiting on the other side of death. You can be confident that Jesus did suffer, physically and spiritually. 'Jesus' is the form that God took in order to instate the 'New Law'. If some Joe Blow walked around claiming that he was God incarnate, what do you think the first response of every person would be? Prove It! We humans are so caught up with proof, which substitutes for faith. Faith is sooo difficult for humans, and that is one major characteristic that sets so many people apart from one another. So... keep in mind that Jesus, after Messianic Consciousness, never used his, as you so eloquently call them 'magical powers' for selfish motives. But! Jesus, with all of His miraculous abilities, made sure He instilled that 'man is not saved by works alone'.

This is the 1st im coming across this arguement on this site so sorry.

maybe i missed it but what law was he here to instill? we cant be saved by works alone?

reply to post by APOCOLYPSE DAWN


There was an end.(Wales beat England)

There was a means (at least in the mind of this patriot)

The latter justified the former (with the help of numerous pints of the ironically named Brains Bitter)

Like Abraham taking his son to the mountain top this man was willing to sacrifice that which he held dearest. i mean let's face it Abraham could still have had more kids.This guy went the extra yard.

Personally, I'd',ve let the English win and kept my family jewels.

It was story was ultimate because it spawned a plague that goes on to this very day.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by blah yada

 

Yeah good for you, very funny..

Oh God what's with these people..?

I didn't see Jesus try and stop the dude. Maybe he was impressed. Maybe he;s trying to pluck up the courage to come down here and beat that. maybe that Welsh dude was Jesus.

Maybe a thousand years from now we'll be on our bent knees babbling incantations at some male genitalia in a pintglass on an alter instead of an effigy of some Caucasian archetype pinned to a cross. I don't know which notion is crazier. I mean, the Vatican centers itself around a giant phallus and is a global player in the flesh trade, kidnapping raping and murdering anywhere you find a priest, so one could see where my confusion arises.

Did god answer your little question at all? Did he tell you what's with we people.Or do you ask rhetorical questions of your god a lot? That would be quite fitting, because he doesn't exist and you will never get a reply.

Too much focus on Jesus is God stuff. Maybe Jesus was God. Maybe he was aware of that fact, but he was human first. He had human emotions, human senses, and human doubts. It was a sacrifice because of the physical sufffering he had to endure. All Christians know we have a place in Heaven, but that wouldnt stop us from quaking in our boots when faced with the thought of an uncomfortable death, much less one that is downright torture. So Jesus made a great sacrifice, by letting himself be arrested, knowing what it would lead to. That takes bravery, love, and sacrifice, I dont care who you are!!
It was a sacrifice for God as well, to create a son out of love, and set Him here knowing the life he was going to lead, and the death he would suffer. It was an amazing sacrifice, and i bet not many alive today would willingly allow themselves to suffer it.

reply to post by soldita

In the bible jesus was god personified. He had all the same feelings and traits of a man, except his power to heal. There for being a mortal man he felt pain as he suffocated on the cross, He went through a slow and painful death for his faith and your soul....I dont know if it can be explained any more simply

reply to post by soldita

Jesus died to prove his teachings were beyond death.

reply to post by soldita


The reason why HIS is the ultimate sacrifice is because the creator of the universe ( GOD ) came to earth as a man ( JESUS CHRIST ) amongst HIS own creation, because that creation has chosen to rebel against the creator ( sin ). Because Adam and Eve disobeyed GOD they were spiritually seperated from GOD and ALL of their offspring ( that is ALL of mankind ) are inherently sinful. GOD declares that the wage for sin is death ( spiritual and physical ). The debt must be paid. Because man is broken due to sin he cannot pay the debt. So GOD Himself, as JESUS CHRIST ( 100% human on earth ) who was SINLESS, WILLINGLY died IN OUR PLACE ( WE deserve to die because WE have sinned ) to take away OUR sin. ( this is called replacement theology ). JESUS gave HIS life to restore OUR life. REMEMBER THAT JESUS IS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. Man ( GODS creation ) murdered HIM ( the creator ) and HE is innocent !

I cannot emphasise enough who JESUS is. HE is GOD in the flesh. As a human he is FULLY human and fully GOD. Everything that we feel and experience, JESUS feels and experiences also - because HE is human. The bible tells us that just prior to being betrayed and arrested, as HE was praying in the garden of Gethsamene, HE was so stressed and overwhelmed with anxiety that HE literally sweated drops of blood. HE prayed 3 times to GOD the FATHER, if it was possible, to have the burden of the crucifiction taken away, yet HE willingly chose to follow through with HIS own execution, knowing in FULL DETAIL what HE was about to endure - EVEN THOUGH HE WAS NOT GUILTY OF ANY SIN.

That is why JESUS is the ultimate sacrifice. HE was murdered by HIS ENEMIES so that HE could make them HIS FRIENDS, Heirs, Kings and Priests in HIS Kingdom and adopted sons to HIS Father.

HE is the One way, the One truth and the One life. Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Saviour of ALL mankind, especially those who Believe in HIM. We are saved with HIS grace, by His sacrifice, for HIS Glory.

reply to post by blah yada

God is love. Those who seek can find him, and his will was personified in Jesus. Ever read the words, and through them the character of the person of Jesus?

What's with some people - is ignorance, stupidity, willful pride, and rebellion.

People are either really ugly, or really beautiful, and I don't mean on the outside.

reply to post by soldita


Perhaps he really did make the ultimate sacrifice, and is truly dead. We certainly don't see San Francisco being smitten with holy, heavenly fire for all of the homosexuals there. Nor do we see the followers of Christ performing greater miracles than he, as he prophesied they would. Perhaps the story was real, but only to the point of the crucifixion. Perhaps God decided that this universe was a horrible, evil idea where to live, you have to kill, and perpetuate an endless cycle of suffering. I know that if I pulled off something so cosmically evil, I'd have to kill myself to get over the guilt.

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776

The creation is good, the problem is we're deluded, especially you.

Originally posted by rebelchildoflight2011
reply to post by soldita

 

In my opinion The Spirit entity that was 'Jesus' was the same Spirit entity that was Adam. In the ‘Jesus’ enity’s life the Spirit committed no crime and was therefore sinless. The crucifixion was the price paid by 'Jesus' atoned for his mistake in the garden.
The atonement wiped out all the other sin in the world, that had been, that was and that to come.
You are free to believe in sin though and act in ways that would be less than 'holy'. In fact, it is necessary for Spirit growth.

In My Opinion.

edit on 27-9-2011 by rebelchildoflight2011 because: pressed the wrong button!

Erm, actually Jesus was God in the flesh. The spirit inhabiting him was Yahweh, not Adam because Adam was in the grave still. Remember when Jesus died he went into hell and took the keys of death and hell from Satan and he freed the captives in Abraham's Bosom (where catholics get purgatory). All those who believed that God would save them and still believed in God went to a waiting ground in hell that was partitioned away from where the sinners were housed so that they could rest until the Lord came for them. So Adam was still in the grave LONG before Jesus was ever born and his spirit was trapped in hell.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Delusion: A false belief that is resistant to confrontation with actual facts.
Where are your facts that confront my proposition?

Of course though, I don't actually believe what I posted above, it was merely rhetorical.
My point that I was trying to make though, was that the ultimate sacrifice cannot be temporary to be truly "the ultimate sacrifice". If God wanted to redeem himself, he would have to go through what his creation has forced on all of us, including true mortality. That is of course assuming that the bible is a true account, setting aside its blatant nonconformity with basic scientific observation.

Originally posted by buildingthenations
reply to post by soldita

 

It was the ultimate sacrifice because God gave Jesus, his own Son, to be sacrificed so that we can have life. He sacrificed Himself for every sin to be committed. So His Believer's may have life and be able to be clean before God.

answer it?

its no use man...dont get caught up casting pearls before swine

Hahaha, I love it.

The sorcery of which is the 'Holy Bible' is nothing more than an occult tactic to control masses/slaves.

Jesus if he was real, today, would be considered a Black Magician; he was a cosmic rebel, just like Lucifer; in his fractal dimension. In fact, he'd be in my eyes, if he is fact; one of the most powerful sorcerers ever documented.

Jesus was nothing more than a man, proclaiming himself as a god -- a manipulater of reality; commander of the universe, using the mind, with an understanding of the afterlife and self.

A Black Magician.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The followers of this cult, Christianity, which has many many perverted occult aspects to its ridiculous ritualistic practices -- have the claws of this mind f# so deeply wedged into their heads, that it would take a lifetime to reverse the damage.

Christianity = Failed Humanity.

I am sorry.

Actually, I hope a period of natural selection arrives, so that you can see that all this altruism is a cosmically infinite mistake.

May Nature have mercy on your Flesh Carcass!

I believe that Jesus was crucified because... by the Roman government he was considered a subversive. When he threw out the money changers in the temple....that sealed the deal for the Roman authorities. They did not like being told that their spiritual belief system was not correct and they needed to live and believe a different way. But I think the Romans killed Jesus mainly because of his political activity.

I think that Jesus death (crucifixtion) was a political move by the Roman government and I think that they blamed the Jews for his death to try and push Jesus political views into the background.

I believe that Jesus not only wanted to liberate people spiritually but politically too. He grew too popular among the people....and they decided to get rid of him.

I also believe that Jesus...knew about his own death.....quite some time before it happened...and yet he still went ahead and spoke what he believed in and did what he believed in. To me this is where his true love and sacrifice is shown...(again) he knew his fate....ahead of time...and he still went forward with his life....knowing his crucifixtion was eminent.

haha ilove you all. im smiles but gotta be outti 5000 on this. ima chunk a deuce on this one. LOL