let's disect the protocols one at a time and see if they're true

Hey guys, i keep hearing people saying that the protocols are a hoax.....some say they aren't a hoax and that you can see exactly what's happening today and in the past in these words....how bout let's see if we can take the protocols starting with protocol 1 and see if we can fit any of the statements in it with truth or with non truth or an event that any of the statements would explain.....i'll post a new protocol every 3 days to give people a chance to make their comments....here's protocol 1


also, instead of quoting the whole post, just take from the content what you need in order to make your point so we don't get excessive post violations.......

www.biblebelievers.org.au...

PROTOCOL No. 1 1. ....Putting aside fine phrases we shall speak of the significance of each thought: by comparisons and deductions we shall throw light upon surrounding facts. 2. What I am about to set forth, then, is our system from the two points of view, that of ourselves and that of the GOYIM [i.e., non-Jews]. 3. It must be noted that men with bad instincts are more in number than the good, and therefore the best results in governing them are attained by violence and terrorisation, and not by academic discussions. Every man aims at power, everyone would like to become a dictator if only he could, and rare indeed are the men who would not be willing to sacrifice the welfare of all for the sake of securing their own welfare. 4. What has restrained the beasts of prey who are called men? What has served for their guidance hitherto? 5. In the beginnings of the structure of society, they were subjected to brutal and blind force; afterwards - to Law, which is the same force, only disguised. I draw the conclusion that by the law of nature, right lies in force. 6. Political freedom is an idea but not a fact. This idea one must know how to apply whenever it appears necessary with this bait of an idea to attract the masses of the people to one's party for the purpose of crushing another who is in authority. This task is rendered easier if the opponent has himself been infected with the idea of freedom, SO-CALLED LIBERALISM, and, for the sake of an idea, is willing to yield some of his power. It is precisely here that the triumph of our theory appears; the slackened reins of government are immediately, by the law of life, caught up and gathered together by a new hand, because the blind might of the nation cannot for one single day exist without guidance, and the new authority merely fits into the place of the old already weakened by liberalism. GOLD 7. In our day the power which has replaced that of the rulers who were liberal is the power of Gold. Time was when Faith ruled. The idea of freedom is impossible of realization because no one knows how to use it with moderation. It is enough to hand over a people to self-government for a certain length of time for that people to be turned into a disorganized mob. From that moment on we get internecine strife which soon develops into battles between classes, in the midst of which States burn down and their importance is reduced to that of a heap of ashes. 8. Whether a State exhausts itself in its own convulsions, whether its internal discord brings it under the power of external foes - in any case it can be accounted irretrievably lost: IT IS IN OUR POWER. The despotism of Capital, which is entirely in our hands, reaches out to it a straw that the State, willy-nilly, must take hold of: if not - it goes to the bottom. 9. Should anyone of a liberal mind say that such reflections as the above are immoral, I would put the following questions: If every State has two foes and if in regard to the external foe it is allowed and not considered immoral to use every manner and art of conflict, as for example to keep the enemy in ignorance of plans of attack and defense, to attack him by night or in superior numbers, then in what way can the same means in regard to a worse foe, the destroyer of the structure of society and the commonweal, be called immoral and not permissible? 10. Is it possible for any sound logical mind to hope with any success to guide crowds by the aid of reasonable counsels and arguments, when any objection or contradiction, senseless though it may be, can be made and when such objection may find more favor with the people, whose powers of reasoning are superficial? Men in masses and the men of the masses, being guided solely by petty passions, paltry beliefs, traditions and sentimental theorems, fall a prey to party dissension, which hinders any kind of agreement even on the basis of a perfectly reasonable argument. Every resolution of a crowd depends upon a chance or packed majority, which, in its ignorance of political secrets, puts forth some ridiculous resolution that lays in the administration a seed of anarchy.

11. The political has nothing in common with the moral. The ruler who is governed by the moral is not a skilled politician, and is therefore unstable on his throne. He who wishes to rule must have recourse both to cunning and to make-believe. Great national qualities, like frankness and honesty, are vices in politics, for they bring down rulers from their thrones more effectively and more certainly than the most powerful enemy. Such qualities must be the attributes of the kingdoms of the GOYIM, but we must in no wise be guided by them. RIGHT IS MIGHT 12. Our right lies in force. The word "right" is an abstract thought and proved by nothing. The word means no more than: Give me what I want in order that thereby I may have a proof that I am stronger than you. 13. Where does right begin? Where does it end? 14. In any State in which there is a bad organization of authority, an impersonality of laws and of the rulers who have lost their personality amid the flood of rights ever multiplying out of liberalism, I find a new right - to attack by the right of the strong, and to scatter to the winds all existing forces of order and regulation, to reconstruct all institutions and to become the sovereign lord of those who have left to us the rights of their power by laying them down voluntarily in their liberalism. 15. Our power in the present tottering condition of all forms of power will be more invincible than any other, because it will remain invisible until the moment when it has gained such strength that no cunning can any longer undermine it. 16. Out of the temporary evil we are now compelled to commit will emerge the good of an unshakable rule, which will restore the regular course of the machinery of the national life, brought to naught by liberalism. The result justifies the means. Let us, however, in our plans, direct our attention not so much to what is good and moral as to what is necessary and useful. 17. Before us is a plan in which is laid down strategically the line from which we cannot deviate without running the risk of seeing the labor of many centuries brought to naught. 18. In order to elaborate satisfactory forms of action it is necessary to have regard to the rascality, the slackness, the instability of the mob, its lack of capacity to understand and respect the conditions of its own life, or its own welfare. It must be understood that the might of a mob is blind, senseless and un-reasoning force ever at the mercy of a suggestion from any side. The blind cannot lead the blind without bringing them into the abyss; consequently, members of the mob, upstarts from the people even though they should be as a genius for wisdom, yet having no understanding of the political, cannot come forward as leaders of the mob without bringing the whole nation to ruin. 19. Only one trained from childhood for independent rule can have understanding of the words that can be made up of the political alphabet. 20. A people left to itself, i.e., to upstarts from its midst, brings itself to ruin by party dissensions excited by the pursuit of power and honors and the disorders arising therefrom. Is it possible for the masses of the people calmly and without petty jealousies to form judgment, to deal with the affairs of the country, which cannot be mixed up with personal interest? Can they defend themselves from an external foe? It is unthinkable; for a plan broken up into as many parts as there are heads in the mob, loses all homogeneity, and thereby becomes unintelligible and impossible of execution. WE ARE DESPOTS

21. It is only with a despotic ruler that plans can be elaborated extensively and clearly in such a way as to distribute the whole properly among the several parts of the machinery of the State: from this the conclusion is inevitable that a satisfactory form of government for any country is one that concentrates in the hands of one responsible person. Without an absolute despotism there can be no existence for civilization which is carried on not by the masses but by their guide, whosoever that person may be. The mob is savage, and displays its savagery at every opportunity. The moment the mob seizes freedom in its hands it quickly turns to anarchy, which in itself is the highest degree of savagery. 22. Behold the alcoholic animals, bemused with drink, the right to an immoderate use of which comes along with freedom. It is not for us and ours to walk that road. The peoples of the GOYIM are bemused with alcoholic liquors; their youth has grown stupid on classicism and from early immorality, into which it has been inducted by our special agents - by tutors, lackeys, governesses in the houses of the wealthy, by clerks and others, by our women in the places of dissipation frequented by the GOYIM. In the number of these last I count also the so-called "society ladies," voluntary followers of the others in corruption and luxury. 23. Our countersign is - Force and Make-believe. Only force conquers in political affairs, especially if it be concealed in the talents essential to statesmen. Violence must be the principle, and cunning and make-believe the rule for governments which do not want to lay down their crowns at the feet of agents of some new power. This evil is the one and only means to attain the end, the good. Therefore we must not stop at bribery, deceit and treachery when they should serve towards the attainment of our end. In politics one must know how to seize the property of others without hesitation if by it we secure submission and sovereignty. 24. Our State, marching along the path of peaceful conquest, has the right to replace the horrors of war by less noticeable and more satisfactory sentences of death, necessary to maintain the terror which tends to produce blind submission. Just but merciless severity is the greatest factor of strength in the State: not only for the sake of gain but also in the name of duty, for the sake of victory, we must keep to the programme of violence and make-believe. The doctrine of squaring accounts is precisely as strong as the means of which it makes use. Therefore it is not so much by the means themselves as by the doctrine of severity that we shall triumph and bring all governments into subjection to our super-government. It is enough for them to know that we are too merciless for all disobedience to cease. WE SHALL END LIBERTY

25. Far back in ancient times we were the first to cry among the masses of the people the words "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity," words many times repeated since these days by stupid poll-parrots who, from all sides around, flew down upon these baits and with them carried away the well-being of the world, true freedom of the individual, formerly so well guarded against the pressure of the mob. The would-be wise men of the GOYIM, the intellectuals, could not make anything out of the uttered words in their abstractedness; did not see that in nature there is no equality, cannot be freedom: that Nature herself has established inequality of minds, of characters, and capacities, just as immutably as she has established subordination to her laws: never stopped to think that the mob is a blind thing, that upstarts elected from among it to bear rule are, in regard to the political, the same blind men as the mob itself, that the adept, though he be a fool, can yet rule, whereas the non-adept, even if he were a genius, understands nothing in the political - to all those things the GOYIM paid no regard; yet all the time it was based upon these things that dynastic rule rested: the father passed on to the son a knowledge of the course of political affairs in such wise that none should know it but members of the dynasty and none could betray it to the governed. As time went on, the meaning of the dynastic transference of the true position of affairs in the political was lost, and this aided the success of our cause. 26. In all corners of the earth the words "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity," brought to our ranks, thanks to our blind agents, whole legions who bore our banners with enthusiasm. And all the time these words were canker-worms at work boring into the well-being of the GOYIM, putting an end everywhere to peace, quiet, solidarity and destroying all the foundations of the GOY States. As you will see later, this helped us to our triumph: it gave us the possibility, among other things, of getting into our hands the master card - the destruction of the privileges, or in other words of the very existence of the aristocracy of the GOYIM, that class which was the only defense peoples and countries had against us. On the ruins of the natural and genealogical aristocracy of the GOYIM we have set up the aristocracy of our educated class headed by the aristocracy of money. The qualifications for this aristocracy we have established in wealth, which is dependent upon us, and in knowledge, for which our learned elders provide the motive force. 27. Our triumph has been rendered easier by the fact that in our relations with the men, whom we wanted, we have always worked upon the most sensitive chords of the human mind, upon the cash account, upon the cupidity, upon the insatiability for material needs of man; and each one of these human weaknesses, taken alone, is sufficient to paralyze initiative, for it hands over the will of men to the disposition of him who has bought their activities. 28. The abstraction of freedom has enabled us to persuade the mob in all countries that their government is nothing but the steward of the people who are the owners of the country, and that the steward may be replaced like a worn-out glove. 29. It is this possibility of replacing the representatives of the people which has placed at our disposal, and, as it were, given us the power of appointment.

reply to post by patternfinder


i'd have to say that all of it is truth so far, i haven't found one thing in this first protocol that i can present an argument against......

What are these protocols for/of? You did not explain that anywhere. I have no idea what these protocols are... so I can't really say anything about them.

Originally posted by aletheia
What are these protocols for/of? You did not explain that anywhere. I have no idea what these protocols are... so I can't really say anything about them.

edit on 23-9-2011 by aletheia because: (no reason given)

these are known as the zionist protocols, which are purported to be the strategy that the jewish elite have been using for centuries to take over the world and form the new world jewish order.......the quote that i provided in the thread is the first of 24 of them......

Originally posted by aletheia
What are these protocols for/of? You did not explain that anywhere. I have no idea what these protocols are... so I can't really say anything about them.

edit on 23-9-2011 by aletheia because: (no reason given)

I'm asking for people to post parts of it that they think are false or true and why they believe that way...

this sounds amazingly like the bailouts.........

The despotism of Capital, which is entirely in our hands, reaches out to it a straw that the State, willy-nilly, must take hold of: if not - it goes to the bottom.

In William' Bill' Coopers book, Behold a Pale Horse, he said it was actually 'Protocals of Sion'.NOT ZION. Zion was used to purposly mislead the public and use the Jews as a scapegoat. In the text he also says to replace the words Goyim with cattle.
And Jew with Illuminati.

please correct me if Im wrong but I was under the impression Sion is a French secret society. Im unsure but one things for sure the Protocals seem to becoming a reality whoever wrote them.

Every man aims at power, everyone would like to become a dictator if only he could...

I guess I am not a man then... nor a part of everyone. I have in fact been put in positions to either take or receive power and have not been afraid to turn it down... and everytime I am in any position to "dictate" I loathe it, rather wishing for those seeking dictatorship treatment to learn to be their own dictator.

Just because a body of ideas may contain genuine principles that are effective generalizations, does not mean that any generalizations about any group are going to be valid, and thus any general actions towards a group are going to be doomed to misguided results at best, outright horror at worst.

There is plenty to argue against in them, however they *are* worth reading.

Namaste.

Originally posted by takethat
In William' Bill' Coopers book, Behold a Pale Horse, he said it was actually 'Protocals of Sion'.NOT ZION. Zion was used to purposly mislead the public and use the Jews as a scapegoat. In the text he also says to replace the words Goyim with cattle.
And Jew with Illuminati.

please correct me if Im wrong but I was under the impression Sion is a French secret society. Im unsure but one things for sure the Protocals seem to becoming a reality whoever wrote them.

i already changed the words like you said and it didn't make any sense.....

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion

Every man aims at power, everyone would like to become a dictator if only he could...

I guess I am not a man then... nor a part of everyone. I have in fact been put in positions to either take or receive power and have not been afraid to turn it down... and everytime I am in any position to "dictate" I loathe it, rather wishing for those seeking dictatorship treatment to learn to be their own dictator.

Just because a body of ideas may contain genuine principles that are effective generalizations, does not mean that any generalizations about any group are going to be valid, and thus any general actions towards a group are going to be doomed to misguided results at best, outright horror at worst.

There is plenty to argue against in them, however they *are* worth reading.

Namaste.

well, this is just the "introduction" stage of the protocols, the real meat and potatoes don't come in till about the 5th protocol, then you can start seeing what the guy is really talking about

I'm sorry...Your point being...please condense@

Originally posted by patternfinder

Originally posted by takethat
In William' Bill' Coopers book, Behold a Pale Horse, he said it was actually 'Protocals of Sion'.NOT ZION. Zion was used to purposly mislead the public and use the Jews as a scapegoat. In the text he also says to replace the words Goyim with cattle.
And Jew with Illuminati.

please correct me if Im wrong but I was under the impression Sion is a French secret society. Im unsure but one things for sure the Protocals seem to becoming a reality whoever wrote them.

i already changed the words like you said and it didn't make any sense.....

not my words, William Coopers, Hes dead now so unfortunatly I cannot ask him.

Originally posted by patternfinder

Originally posted by aletheia
What are these protocols for/of? You did not explain that anywhere. I have no idea what these protocols are... so I can't really say anything about them.

edit on 23-9-2011 by aletheia because: (no reason given)

I'm asking for people to post parts of it that they think are false or true and why they believe that way...

the above quoted post is where i condensed it already......

i'm basically saying, c,mon ats, lets deconstruct this information and look at it with more of a microscope so we can see just what the hell is going on with these things.....

reply to post by patternfinder


I would agree to that point!

Originally posted by patternfinder
i'm basically saying, c,mon ats, lets deconstruct this information and look at it with more of a microscope so we can see just what the hell is going on with these things.....

you gonna have to do better then that and lead the other users on in to it .

Why don't you de-construct one of them and give us some tasters of this " meat & patatoe " you speak of .




I will have a go at some point I guess but I do believe these protocols to be a hoax .

Perhaps I should re-evaluate my opinion.

ok, here is the 2nd protocol.....





protocol 2

PROTOCOL No. 2 1. It is indispensable for our purpose that wars, so far as possible, should not result in territorial gains: war will thus be brought on to the economic ground, where the nations will not fail to perceive in the assistance we give the strength of our predominance, and this state of things will put both sides at the mercy of our international AGENTUR; which possesses millions of eyes ever on the watch and unhampered by any limitations whatsoever. Our international rights will then wipe out national rights, in the proper sense of right, and will rule the nations precisely as the civil law of States rules the relations of their subjects among themselves. 2. The administrators, whom we shall choose from among the public, with strict regard to their capacities for servile obedience, will not be persons trained in the arts of government, and will therefore easily become pawns in our game in the hands of men of learning and genius who will be their advisers, specialists bred and reared from early childhood to rule the affairs of the whole world. As is well known to you, these specialists of ours have been drawing to fit them for rule the information they need from our political plans from the lessons of history, from observations made of the events of every moment as it passes. The GOYIM are not guided by practical use of unprejudiced historical observation, but by theoretical routine without any critical regard for consequent results. We need not, therefore, take any account of them - let them amuse themselves until the hour strikes, or live on hopes of new forms of enterprising pastime, or on the memories of all they have enjoyed. For them let that play the principal part which we have persuaded them to accept as the dictates of science (theory). It is with this object in view that we are constantly, by means of our press, arousing a blind confidence in these theories. The intellectuals of the GOYIM will puff themselves up with their knowledges and without any logical verification of them will put into effect all the information available from science, which our AGENTUR specialists have cunningly pieced together for the purpose of educating their minds in the direction we want. DESTRUCTIVE EDUCATION 3. Do not suppose for a moment that these statements are empty words: think carefully of the successes we arranged for Darwinism (Evolution), Marxism (Communism), Nietzsche-ism (Socialism). To us Jews, at any rate, it should be plain to see what a disintegrating importance these directives have had upon the minds of the GOYIM. 4. It is indispensable for us to take account of the thoughts, characters, tendencies of the nations in order to avoid making slips in the political and in the direction of administrative affairs. The triumph of our system of which the component parts of the machinery may be variously disposed according to the temperament of the peoples met on our way, will fail of success if the practical application of it be not based upon a summing up of the lessons of the past in the light of the present. 5. In the hands of the States of to-day there is a great force that creates the movement of thought in the people, and that is the Press. The part played by the Press is to keep pointing out requirements supposed to be indispensable, to give voice to the complaints of the people, to express and to create discontent. It is in the Press that the triumph of freedom of speech finds its incarnation. But the GOYIM States have not known how to make use of this force; and it has fallen into our hands. Through the Press we have gained the power to influence while remaining ourselves in the shade; thanks to the Press we have got the GOLD in our hands, notwithstanding that we have had to gather it out of the oceans of blood and tears. But it has paid us, though we have sacrificed many of our people. Each victim on our side is worth in the sight of God a thousand GOYIM.

the first thing that comes to my site is this statement:

It is indispensable for our purpose that wars, so far as possible, should not result in territorial gains: war will thus be brought on to the economic ground, where the nations will not fail to perceive in the assistance we give the strength of our predominance, and this state of things will put both sides at the mercy of our international AGENTUR; which possesses millions of eyes ever on the watch and unhampered by any limitations whatsoever. Our international rights will then wipe out national rights, in the proper sense of right, and will rule the nations precisely as the civil law of States rules the relations of their subjects among themselves.

it does sound like the very thing that's happening to the world right now with the financial problems we are facing. the federal reserve and the IMF are funding both sides of the wars that are being fought at the moment through the central banks of each perspective country..........and the part of the agentur sounds alot like the speech that JFK had made in regards to communist secret societies that are already so vast in our political and economic systems......and it sounds much like they are talking about a global governance.......

The intellectuals of the GOYIM will puff themselves up with their knowledges and without any logical verification of them will put into effect all the information available from science, which our AGENTUR specialists have cunningly pieced together for the purpose of educating their minds in the direction we want. DESTRUCTIVE EDUCATION

this does sound like alot of people these days and we are all complaining about our education system...

Getting into a line-by-line refutation of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion isn't even necessary. Things in there will either sound true or untrue to various readers depending on their point of view. Much of it was plagiarized from a book called "The Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu" by Maurice Joly, which had nothing to do with Jews or Judiasm, but was written as a protest against Napoleon III.

Here's some samples:

How are loans made? By the issue of bonds entailing on the Government the obligation to pay interest proportionate to the capital it has been paid. Thus, if a loan is at 5%, the State, after 20 years, has paid out a sum equal to the borrowed capital. When 40 years have expired it has paid double, after 60 years triple: yet it remains debtor for the entire capital sum.
— Montesquieu, Dialogues, p. 209

vs.

A loan is an issue of Government paper which entails an obligation to pay interest amounting to a percentage of the total sum of the borrowed money. If a loan is at 5%, then in 20 years the Government would have unnecessarily paid out a sum equal to that of the loan in order to cover the percentage. In 40 years it will have paid twice; and in 60 thrice that amount, but the loan will still remain as an unpaid debt.
— Protocols, p. 77

Another:

Like the god Vishnu, my press will have a hundred arms, and these arms will give their hands to all the different shades of opinion throughout the country.
— Machiavelli, Dialogues, p. 141

vs.

These newspapers, like the Indian god Vishnu, will be possessed of hundreds of hands, each of which will be feeling the pulse of varying public opinion.
— Protocols, p. 43

Now I understand the figure of the god Vishnu; you have a hundred arms like the Indian idol, and each of your fingers touches a spring.
— Montesquieu, Dialogues, p. 207

vs.

Our Government will resemble the Hindu god Vishnu. Each of our hundred hands will hold one spring of the social machinery of State.
— Protocols, p. 65

What is the point of trying to find the truth or lies in a document's text if the document was a fraud and a forgery in the first place?

Originally posted by takethat
In William' Bill' Coopers book, Behold a Pale Horse, he said it was actually 'Protocals of Sion'.NOT ZION. Zion was used to purposly mislead the public and use the Jews as a scapegoat. In the text he also says to replace the words Goyim with cattle.
And Jew with Illuminati.

please correct me if Im wrong but I was under the impression Sion is a French secret society. Im unsure but one things for sure the Protocals seem to becoming a reality whoever wrote them.

Well, the Priory of Sion is an alleged French secret society, though that is probably a hoax, too. It was supposedly a Christian organization set up to protect the secret bloodline of Jesus (basically all of that Da Vinci Code stuff).

Sion, by the way, is just an alternate spelling of Zion